Ryanair bans passengers who obtained refunds via chargeback

Caranica

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/ryanair-bans-covid-refund-passengers-from-boarding-new-flights?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

We had threads with hundreds of pages on here last year as people struggled to get refunds for flights they were unable to take because of Covid travel bans and other pandemic related reasons. Some of us were able to get refunds from Ryanair (eventually) but lots of people ended up going the chargeback route. This report in the Guardian is worrying, wonder if it's happened to boardsies.

Indo also have an article on it now. Ryanair claiming people owe them a debt.

niallo32

I got a chargeback last year and am flying with them this Thursday. Already checked in and no issue. Let you know if something changes. Flew with them last week without issue too.

miamee

According to this article in the Irish Times they are waiting until check-in to hit people with the bill and not allowing them to travel until it has been paid. So beware @niallo32 and maybe give yourself some extra time at the airport.

I'd love to know how they are tracing these people, is it via their card details, passport number entered in their booking or something else? Neither are good practice and could get them into trouble if that is the case.

Edit: I see you have already checked in so hopefully you're in the clear. Did you use a different card to pay for these flights out of interest?

niallo32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012745#Comment_118012745

I used a different card alright, I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow!

Interesting. they have advertised a service. allowed the customer to book, took their money at the time of the booking, and then refuse to provide the service at the point of entry, despite having the ability to demand the money at any stage, or even prevent a booking being made in the first place until the (disputed) debt is paid

SouthWesterly

They'll hit GDPR issues of using people's personal data for purposes different to what it was provided for.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch😁

Working class heroes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010028#Comment_118010028

Was your original flight cancelled?

85603

Maybe doing their usual all press is good press thing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013671#Comment_118013671

Legitimate Interest.

niallo32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013703#Comment_118013703

No, went ahead

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013784#Comment_118013784

No. Details given to book a flight not to have future booking blocked

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014590#Comment_118014590

If someone hired a car from me, used it, returned it, then charged back, would it not be fair enough for me to keep their details on file so I'd never rent to them again? Seems fair to me?

I'm struggling to see the issue with what Ryanair are doing.

People booked seats on a flight. Flight took place, and people did chargebacks via credit cards.

Ryanair were quite upfront about the whole refund policy when covid hit last year. I wonder how many people who did a charge back attempted to claim a refund via Ryanair initially.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014650#Comment_118014650

Not if it's their credit card details no.

The first thing you should do is dispute the chargeback.

You have an agreement with the card provider as a merchant, and agree to their management of the chargeback process, presumably.

Donald Trump

A chargeback is not a refund. You are getting the credit card company to take/hold that money back from the merchant and give it to you. They will also charge the merchant an additional administrative fee for the privilege.

If I was a merchant and I sold something to a customer who immediately did a chargeback, costing me 25 quid in charges, I might be slow to deal with them again in the future.

I don't often agree with Ryanair, but on this case I think they have a point. Unless I am misunderstanding and there was an issue with obtaining the refunds from them through regular mechanisms.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013671#Comment_118013671

Not at all. That would be like saying I could go into a garage and agree to buy a car, sign paperwork and then take the car home, refuse to pay the loan and leave it back after crashing it with the front bumper hanging off, and that the garage would have to destroy anything with my name on it due to GDPR!

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014715#Comment_118014715

They are using data for another reason which was not why the customer gave it.

I don't disagree with what they're doing in banning people but that doesn't negate responsibility in using data

miamee

I can see why they would have a grievance with people for initiating chargebacks and possibly the banks should not have given them in the circumstances but I don't think their method of recouping their money is correct either. Their issue should be with the banks issuing the chargebacks.

Also if a customer is blacklisted and no longer welcome until they pay off a 'debt' then they should have been notified of this when they were trying to book another flight, not after you have taken some more money from them on the understanding that they can take a flight andf then saying actually nah, you need to pay up first. Then again, it is Ryanair and they'll do whatever is necessary to recoup their losses, their flights will still be cheap and people will still fly with them.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014692#Comment_118014692

And an agreement with Ryanair to pay for your booking? Seems fair to me that they don't want to give away their services for free surely? Could I just book a seat every day, then charge back over and over?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014732#Comment_118014732

And in the case of the me getting the car and leaving it back damaged, they obtained my details for a loan. They didn't obtain my details due to damage for the car. So, being consistent wit your logic, they would be in breach of GDPR if they used the details they collected when I signed for the car to try to bring me to court for the damage caused to the car (which would be different from the breach of contract)

When the person does a chargeback, they cause a loss for Ryanair. Ryanair now considers that they owe them money (and you can bet there is something in a small print which allows them to do that). Mr X owes me money ... well I can perfectly well keep his details!

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014737#Comment_118014737

Yes you could, if the merchant doesn't dispute the request why wouldn't the card provider process it?

So why didn't Ryanair dispute any of these charge backs at the time? That's what I would expect and if they didn't do that, well that's on them. Charge backs are a part of accepting card processing.

Presumably the credit card provider doesn't just automatically issue a charge back.

So Ryanair's problem should be with the card provider.

JDxtra

Some companies are a right pain in the rear end to deal with if things go wrong. Endless hours spent trying to get an issue resolved often with no success. This is by design. It's to cut costs on their side and to discourage refunds.

It's at that point that customers say, feck this - I'll deal my card provider instead. This can be like a breath of fresh air and the issue can get sorted quickly.

If customer service for Ryainair (and some others like Eir and Vodafone) were approachable, understanding and generally easier to deal with - then they would not have this issue in the first place.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014761#Comment_118014761

Absolutely.

...and also with the person who used their service without paying. Seems fair that they don't want them using their service after 'stiffing' them. (not saying all customers are out to do that, just can't think of a more appropriate word)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014590#Comment_118014590

You'd want to brush up on your GDPR knowledge then.

odyssey06

What's to stop someone paying the bill... via card... and the issuing a charge back request if Ryanair aren't challenging them ?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014672#Comment_118014672

The thing is that the flight didn't depart due to Covid. And then people found charge back way easier and less bureaucratic than a lengthy refund process which we are all certain that Ryanair wouldn't have wanted anyway.

The problem is that Ryanair isn't exactly known for passenger rights, regardless if it's EU law or not and charge back is the easy choice.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015034#Comment_118015034

Ryanair are only talking about flights that did depart, but the passenger chose not to go. Those flights were non refundable.

They are perfectly entitled to refuse service to someone that already owes them money.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015051#Comment_118015051

I understood that the article posted would concern flights not taken specifically due to Covid regulations.

Let's assume Ryanair is flying from Dublin to Spain, the flight takes off, however the Spanish government says, due to Covid regulation only Spanish citizens are allowed to return. Then yes, the flight is taking of, but unless you're Spanish, you can't go. I am sure, there would have been a lot of similar cases, with different countries introducing different regulations, and differentiating between their own citizens and visitors or business/essential work related travellers.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015113#Comment_118015113

That is not Ryanair's fault.

Take the scenario where a passenger gets arrested the day they are due to travel, are questioned and then released. Obviously they could not travel for circumstances outside their control. However, they would not be entitled to a refund.

Similar if someone lost their passport.

Once the flight goes, their seat is available for them to take.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015156#Comment_118015156

It's sadly nobody's fault. If say, the Spanish or any other government's country passes legislation due to the pandemic that any foreign citizen can't come in for non essential reasons, than any airline, Ryanair or otherwise can't transport them. Also the article wasn't very specific, other than mentioning Covid.

Given Ryanair's history in customer relations I don't blame anybody if he or she did a charge back on that one. I would have done the same.

Also, since the numbers of travellers doing that, is limited they should just accept that as the pandemic couldn't have been predicted by any of us, and look forward to future business.

It'll be different, though, if it wasn't for the pandemic, or one losing a passport, etc.. that one I'd understand.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014590#Comment_118014590

There’s an Outstanding balance owed . I’m sure it’s buried in the T&Cs.