Should speeding fines be graduated?

Jeremy Sproket

€80 and 3 points for being marginally over the limit is a bit steep and the same for being well over is unduly lenient.

My idea would be an allowance of 10% before fines kick in with a fine of €10 per km/h (or part thereof) over the limit with 1 point for each 10 km/h over the limit. Maybe just a warning letter for marginal infringements. Once the 10% allowance has been breached, the driver will be fined for the whole transgression including the allowance of 10%.

So if someone is caught at 66 km/h in a 60 km/h zone, they will receive a warning letter in the post with a small fine of €5 to be paid online to cover postage/admin for the letter. No points or fine.

70 km/h is 10 km/h over the limit. The 10% leniency no longer applies since the limit has been breached by more than the allowance. This is 10 km/h over the limit so will attract a fine of €100 and 1 point. If the driver is caught at 80 km/h in a 60 km/h zone it will be €200 and 2 points and so on.

Parachutes

I think the UK system of a speed awareness course for first offence and being only a certain threshold over the limit is a good system. Let’s be honest, the fine is nothing. It’s the points that really sting.

Jeremy Sproket

I'm very diligent with speed limits and all rules of the road. I'm a very by the book gal.

It must sting though to get points for being caught at 54 km/h in a 50 km/h zone where a person could get the same punishment for driving at 159 km/h in a 120 km/h zone.

CiniO

According to your system - if doing 50km/h in 30km/h zone - you are 20km/h over the speed limit so €200 and 2 points, and that's for being nearly 70% over the limit - so high impact on safety.

And then accordingly, for doing 140km/h in 120km/h limit on motorway, you're 20km/h over so same €200 and 2 points, and that's just for being just over 15% over the limit - so marginal impact on safety.

Whocare

€80 is only pocket change as stand now fine should be doubled

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212133/should-speeding-fines-be-graduated

Shane Ross would be proud of you!

He tried to introduce them, the current government scrapped the idea.

Whocare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992543#Comment_117992543

To be fair on roads I go to work in morning especially on R road lot of cars are going 110km plus myself included would be going around 120 /130 km now if fine was doubled I would think twice about spending but as it stands 80 euro it Worth the risk and there lot of other people thinking the same

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991085#Comment_117991085

With modern technology safety breach algorithms could easily be worked out, like going a certain percentage over on a motorway, as you say, would have less safety implications than same percentage in a narrow road, Road safety experts have accumulated a fair bit of data to be able to make these risk assessments.

seagull

Go to the system where exceeding the limit by a certain percentage gets the driver arrested and locked up while waiting for a hearing in the next available magistrate's court. And where they have the power to confiscate the car if the speed falls into really extracting the urine territory. Suddenly, the consequences of excessive speeding hit home.

mikeecho

I'm quite happy with the system we have.

Only ever gotten one speeding ticket, 53mph in a 30, a £50 fine.

Never had a single point. And I'll admit to breaking the limit at some point every day.

handlemaster

200 euro min for speeding

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992470#Comment_117992470

Most of Scandinavia fines speeders a percentage of annual income rather than a fixed charge. If you're on minimum wage €80 is a huge setback; if you're on big money it's a laughing matter.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006339#Comment_118006339

So the drug dealers, who claim the dole will pay very little, along with the wasters who go to certain drs to be declared medically unfit, so that they don't even have to go on a fas course will pay nothing.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212133/should-speeding-fines-be-graduated

You’re talking sense. I think your account may have been hacked. 😁

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212133/should-speeding-fines-be-graduated

No-one gets a ticket for less than 8km over the limit. (Gosafe)

And gardai generally are a lot more lenient

Actually the fairest way to do it is base it on the income of the offender. Its called a Day-Fine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine

A day-fine, day fine, unit fine or structured fine is a unit of fine payment that, above a minimum fine, is based on the offender's daily personal income. A crime is punished with incarceration for a determined number of days, or with fines. As incarceration is a financial punishment, in the effect of preventing work, a day-fine represents one day incarcerated and without salary. It is argued to be just, because if both high-income and low-income population are punished with the same jail time, they should also be punished with a proportionally similar income loss. An analogy may be drawn with income tax, which is also proportional to the income, even progressively.

Jurisdictions employing the day-fine include Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, and Macao.

So, if you applied a 5 day fine for speeding, for someone on the dole, it would equate to a weeks dole, for someone else it would equate to a weeks wages. Not saying it should be 5 days, just giving an easy example.

In essence, it would operate like PAYE tax where you pay more tax the higher your salary is.

The end result is fines like these

The person who is punished with a fine is responsible for giving accurate information concerning their income. Lying about one's income is a crime punishable with a fine or up to three months in prison. The police can, however, access the taxation data of Finnish citizens and permanent residents via a real-time datalink, so the chance of lying successfully is minor. There is no maximum day-fine, which may lead to considerably high fines for high-income persons. For example, in 2001, a Finnish businessman with a yearly income of 10 million euros, received a relatively mild punishment of six day-fines, amounting €26,000, for driving though a red traffic light. In 2009 a businessman was fined €112,000 for travelling at 82 kilometres per hour in an area with a speed limit of 60 kilometres per hour. In 2019, Maarit Toivanen, a business executive, was fined €74,000 for driving at 112 kilometres per hour (70 mph) in a 80 kilometres per hour (50 mph) speed limit area. As speeding is punished with a petty fine if the offender is exceeding the speed limit by up to 20 km/h, but with a day-fine if exceeding the limit by 21 km/h or more, the monetary amount of the fine can increase from €115 to over €100,000 although the actual change in speed is less than 1 km/h.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/finn-gets-170-000-speeding-fine-1.1305617

https://www.therichest.com/luxury/expensive-traffic-tickets-written/

kaahooters

fines should be a % of earnings.

earn minimum wadge, 80 quid. (5%)

earm 100,000, 5k fine.

magicbastarder

the 'fine' should be seizure of the car within a week of the notice being served, for an equivalent number of days that there are points levied. that'd have an effect greater than anything else.

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007868#Comment_118007868

What about people with multiple cars? Or people who can afford to simply surrender a shiitbox worth only €100 or so?

Income related fines are fairest I think.

The base fine should be €120 (roughly a day's net pay after tax for someone on average industrial maxing out pension contributions) if my calculations are correct.

highdef

Current system works fine for me. I drive right at the speed limit when conditions prevail. Not speed as shown on my speedometer but actual real life speed so speedometer would usually suggest that I'm speeding but I'm actually not. I keep an eye on my speed very regularly, never drop my speed if I see a speed van (except of course if some gobshite in front of me drops anchor even though they weren't exceeding the limit in the first place).

Have driven in this manner for over twenty years and have never got a speeding fine or penalty point so it seems to be a very effective system.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044219#Comment_118044219

it's not so much about the value of the car, it's about the inconvenience. and i suspect that people who can 'afford' to surrender a €100 shitbox would be the most affected by this, rather than being easily able to 'afford' to do so, because they're more likely to be the ones on zero hours, minimum wage earnings, and if they need the car to get to work they suffer.

it's not a perfect solution by any means, but it'd be effective.