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What is Poland up to?

  • 07-10-2021 7:52pm
    Registered Users Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18

    It looks to me that their government do not want to remain as an EU member state and may also be heading for the door by engineering a crisis.

    Would Poland leaving be worse for the bloc than Brexit?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Manic Moran

    That's because the Irish Constitution was modified in the Third Amendment to specifically read "No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State necessitated by the obligations of membership of the Communities or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the Communities, or institutions thereof, from having the force of law in the State."

    Or, after the Twenty-Eighth Amendment "6º No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State, before, on or after the entry into force of the Treaty of Lisbon, that are necessitated by the obligations of membership of the European Union referred to in subsection 5 of this section or of the European Atomic Energy Community, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by—

    i. the said European Union or the European Atomic Energy Community, or by institutions thereof,

    ii. the European Communities or European Union existing immediately before the entry into force of the Treaty of Lisbon, or by institutions thereof, or

    iii. bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section,"

    The supremacy of the Constitution unless otherwise stated in that Constitution is exactly why the amendments were required.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 33,413 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    Soapboxing post and response deleted., do not post here again.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    I would assume the likelihood now is they’ll be given a defined period of time to amend their constitution. Otherwise, they will be heading for, at best, associate membership.

    What they have now isn’t really compatible with EU membership.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,831 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    I think the Polish government wants the EU to drop them, rather than try and convince an 80% for, electorate, to voluntarily exit.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭ tinytobe

    I see things very similar.

    The thing is, if Poland or Hungary don't value the EU and the legal framework of the EU they should leave, and rather leave quickly than starting an endless debate about it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭ reubenreuben

    What would happen to the 100k polish living in Ireland if they pull out?

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    It would be a reset of things back to how they were before May 2004 - visas and work permits etc etc. I’m sure we would be likely to ensure that anyone long term resident here would have a pathway to permanent residency and citizenship, but that’s really all we we could do.

    If Poland left with an agreement, perhaps there might be some reciprocal arrangement like the one that exists for Norway and Iceland, but who knows.

    The situation for U.K. citizens, other than in Ireland where they’ve residency rights due to the CTA and legacy arrangements, is pretty awkward. Most countries are granting residency to long term residents who’ve met criteria, but the days of grabbing a summer job in a bar in Greece or Spain or upping sticks and setting up a B&B in rural France are gone unless you’ve an EU member state citizenship.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,295 ✭✭✭✭ recode the site

    They are really trying to score an own goal. A lot of Polish people have happily returned to their home country now that is is prospering. But then if the big companies are forced to pull out the citizens will end up locked inside a conservative country of emptying industry without the options to once again easily work around Europe. The inward-looking government would prefer the citizens not to have a say in this matter. A future poorer conservative RC country is what the powers want to return to. Refill the churches from the empty offices, could have their strategy summed up.

    De tick definitely does do plotten only to thick in de stew

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,683 ✭✭✭ igCorcaigh

    But, isn't this the irony? My (very poor) understanding of the current political setup in Poland, is that the people voted for the government, not for their conservative views on social issues, like abortion, etc, but for economic ones, jobs, etc.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,632 CMod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp

    I have a tonne of polish colleagues in my remote job, and they'd all be very pro EU - which doesn't seem an outlier going by polls either. Plus the apparently booking economy from being inside the bloc so .. what on earth is the government trying for? With something this transparently unpopular and disastrous to the economy: what's the in here? Are they deep with Russian connections on the sly?

    At least brexit made hey from touching that resting British jingoistic zeal and sense of Exceptionalism. The public bought into the idea; here the public seem definitively against it, and (seemingly) can see the insanity of it all

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,523 ✭✭✭ threeball

    Its time for the EU to really draw a line in the sand and say you're either in or your out. Too many eastern bloc countries cherrypicking the bits that favour them and ignoring the rest of their obligations as was seen when the Poles sent those Belarussian refugees packing. The EU also do themselves no favours in courting the likes of Turkey who are completely incompatible with the values of the EU and the expectations of its established members. The brits were at it for years and look at the mess that became of that.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,683 ✭✭✭ igCorcaigh

    Yes, I agree, but is there a case for each nation within the EU to allow to be in control of its own internal affairs, without being pressured by the EU, with what some might see as an ideology?

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,334 ✭✭✭ enfant terrible

    What are the issues exactly, is it because the current government is anti abortion and LBGT they are getting in trouble?

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,163 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34

    Only partly. Its mainly about immigration and political marginalisation of opposition elements by stuffing Courts and other such things.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭ ZX7R

    You're way out with immigration, Poland are actively encouraging immigration from neighbouring eu members to fill the void of mass emigration from Poland over the last 20 years.

    Don't get me wrong everything is not ideal about some of there ideology but I am amused when people from other countries dismiss another country's ideology as incorrect wrong because it doesn't fit there ideology.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,163 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34

    I must have imagined the barbed wire and dogs and machine gun skirmishes on their border with Belarus.

    And we aren't talking about any irrelevant personal dislike for their policies, we're talking about stuff thats contra to EU policy and agreements made.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭ ZX7R

    Funny not much eu condemnation about the activities at the Belarus border to be fair

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,831 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    Consider that the Irish civil service took a month shy of 2 years to process my son's foreign births citizenship application. The mind boggles.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom

    SNIP. Serious posts only please.

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,987 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph

    That's disgraceful, especially if the child concerned has no other access to a travel document from another citizenship.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,831 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    Yes, and I think that's putting it mildly. He has a current British passport, hence the desire for an Irish one. He had an Australian passport, but against my advice let that lapse many years ago.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,163 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34

    It shouldn't need explaining that there are tens of thousands more than your son seeking a citizenship of convenience.

    The fact you (or he) avail of this privilege, to make your life easier, and then complain about the manner in which its administered, shows a breathtaking arrogance and zero sense of self awareness.

    I'd cancel it for the sheer ingratitude alone.

  • Citizen by birth to an Irish Citizen is not a privilege.

    don't know what this has got to do with Poland.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,911 ✭✭✭✭ listermint