Beginner program

sharky86

Hello hello hello

has anyone any advise on a decent beginner program for someone looking to loose weight?

to be honest I’m looking to stay away from the likes of starting strength and strong lifts. I’ve run them before and find that after a couple of weeks I just can’t run them on a calorie deficit and they wreak me recovery wise.

I’ve never looked into higher volume lower intensity programs before so need your help

Cill94

There's a thread on this. But tbh there's no strength programme that's going to work past the first few weeks if you're in a big calorie deficit. Most people do better making the deficit very small so that they can sustain strength increases for longer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058104438/beginner-strength-programmes/p1

Mellor

What is your current height/weight? What is your goal weight.

What is you current 1RM or 5RM for Squat, Bench, Deadlift, Press. How many pull ups can you do (dead hang, pronated grip).

Have you worked out you TDEE? What is you current target intake, or deficit?

to be honest I’m looking to stay away from the likes of starting strength and strong lifts. I’ve run them before and find that after a couple of weeks I just can’t run them on a calorie deficit and they wreak me recovery wise.

How suitable SS or the like will be will depend on the stats above. While a calorie deficit will impact recover slightly, it be possible to find balance. A calories deficit is a dietary deficit. If training hard we should always aim for energy balance to maintain all the processes, but too big a dietary deficit will see process shut down.

What do you have in mind for higher volume lower intensity? I'm assuming don't want some variation of bodypump with small weights and 100s of reps, and still want it in the overall area of proper resistance training.

Two options that come to mind.

A 5x5 combined with higher rep assistance. No Starting strength but something like ICF 5x5. You may make strength gains initially, but adding 2.5kg weekly shouldn't be the focus. Intentionally plateau, just keep lifting and move up when you feel like it. You can get stronger on a deficit.

A 10x10 volume program such as GVT. Load will be wound way down to aid recovery. These shouldn't be close to 10RM loads. You can ramp up in subsecuent weeks as you get stronger.

Really depends on your own personal recover capacity and how many reps you want to so. Personally I handle either low or high reps ok on a deficit. IMO its the overall intensity that matters most.

AllForIt

Weight training is useless for loosing weight.

Black Sheep

There’s no one answer to this, agree with Cilian and Mellor’s comments in general but this is what I will offer:-

If you haven’t lifted in a while and are really detrained then because you are familiar with how to run a linear progression I would like you to consider putting your doubts aside and running another one for a few months at least.

This time, keep a minimal calorie deficit, or if you were willing, none at all. Get your numbers up to something reasonable, and see how you are looking and feeling. Build plenty of steps into this, and at least one longer low intensity cardio effort per week - a good 45 minute walk even at the weekend.

THEN, with your higher numbers, programme something that will allow you to lift less, and perhaps add in a conditioning day or two. Something like 5/3/1 or a WS4SB template would work.

Your strength work on the deficit should be about retaining muscle mass and keeping your numbers up while you sort the weight loss via diet and calorie deficit. Contrary to what your instinct is my view would be that on this set up you want to keep the intensity and heavier weights, it’s the volume you are tapering off.

It just does not work to do a lot of volume at lower intensity, it’s junk volume unless you are doing high volume with lower weights but absolutely killing yourself with negatives, drop sets, rest/pause and other techniques that’s different and valid, but that’s also pointless if in a deficit.

My few cents.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117978454#Comment_117978454

Weight loss is dictated by diet. Calorie deficit specifically.

Lifting heavy objects burns energy. Which aids a deficit.

sharky86

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

some stats: currently sitting at 114.3kg at 180cm. Looking to get down to around 100kg over the next few months.

current max for 5 reps are squat 182.5kg, deadlift 180kg (I know I know less than the squat isn’t ideal) bench 110kg.

still in the process of working out my calories, think I’ll be cutting somewhere in the 2400 range.

so the consensus is to maybe drop a set or two instead of dropping weight as I start to slow down recovering?

Black Sheep

Your numbers actually good relative to your bodyweight, you’re not a beginner. If you’re still progressing with what you’re doing I would be tempted to carry on, but tbh you could also jump right now to an intermediate program, like 5/3/1, with some conditioning work.

Mellor

Number seem well enough developed that you should be ok to focusing on maintain numbers. If you can keep you 5RM when dropping weight. Absolute strength hasn't increased, but relative strength has. ie you go from a 95% bench to a 110% bench, without adding a single kilo. That's the valid but boring approach. Suitability will depend on whether you enjoy lifting weights in general, or if the improvements and increases motivate you. Neither is right or wrong.

The other option is GVT or similar volume program. This is personally how I like to cut. I feel the volume is more work, and also contributes to muscle retention better. But its absolutely grim on a cut. You get a new lover/hate of volume PBs. Start light

Cill94

I think whether you go high volume or high intensity ends up much the same. If you do something like GVT, you'll end up having to drop the weight to something very light. Likewise if you keep at something like a Starting Strength, you might only be able for one or two working sets by the end of the cut. There's not really much research I'm aware of to say whether one approach is better for maintaining muscle.

Personally i would say you have some great numbers, and you're probably best just trying to use the plan that got you there while you cut. Drop weight and volume accordingly as the cut starts to drain your ability to perform.

Black Sheep

I'd say attempt to keep the intensity relatively high on the sets you're doing, but yes, reduce the volume. You're talking about fairly short, intense lifting days.

When dieting you're already down glycogen and water in the muscles, you're not going to recover from a ton of volume anyway.

It's inevitable if you are going to lose some top end strength, if you're genuinely in a sustained calorie deficit. But top end strength and muscle mass are slightly separate things. If you keep pushing hard on the reduced volume you're doing, you should hold onto a good bit of muscle mass, and who knows, might actually fit well with your body composition goals.

I'd stick with mid range reps, 5+, maybe 5-12 as a band. I mentioned 5/3/1, that lends itself to pushing a bit harder on the days you feel able to, there are a number of AMPRAP ("As many reps as possible") sets programmed in, so if you are feeling fresh you can rep it out. The change in training pace might be good for you.

The door is also open to upping your calorie intake on the days you are lifting to make it more manageable, and be in more of a deficit other days.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987617#Comment_117987617

I was going to ask about that i.e. eating a bit of a surprlus/maintenance on training days vs non training days - is there anything in that practically? Or as recovery probably takes multiples days does it not really matter (apart from perhaps psychologically). I have been going for that approach myself - e.g. 200-300 calls over on training day and a 500-700 cal deficit on non-training days.

Black Sheep

I suspect that, as you imply, overall progress and recovery is still going to be hampered by being in a deficit for most of the week, but having calories available for your lifting sessions definitely does make them more manageable. If the goal is to preserve muscle mass and hold as much ground as you can in top end strength, then to me it makes sense that what calories you do have you would prioritise for the lifting days so you can give it your best shot.

I'd apply the same rationale if intermittent fasting.

Important to hydrate well throughout the week. When we're in a deficit, or fasting, we are often dehydrating a little because a surprising amount of our water intake comes from solid food.