Deduction for being Late

KellyKelly

Hi Guys, If you're being deducted 15minutes from your wages for being 1 minute late. Clock in @ 9.01am

Is this legal? i will check contract but somehow seems unfair

messrs

Doesnt seem right - your pay should come from your clock in /clock out times so it would have to be manually adjusted if more was deducted unless you clocked out early aswell and are also been deducted for that - at least thats they way it in my job

KellyKelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953929#Comment_117953929

Yes it was manually deducted

spaceHopper

Used to happen in my first job, there was production line and they wanted everybody there on time so that everybody was at their station. Once they introduced it though it kind of backfired, if you were 1 min late you went to the canteen got a coffee and clocked in at 14 minutes passed.

mondeoman72

Once it is in the contract that you signed, it is legal. When you signed it, you agreed to the conditions and terms. Doesn't make it right though. I like the comment from someone else that If you lose 15 mins minimum, feck off to the canteen for 14 mins.

Chris_5339762

Not quite... you can't sign away your legal rights in a contract. Now, there is likely no law against doing this, but just in general.

Stone Deaf 4evr

have had it at plenty of places, I see nothing wrong with it tbh. its to discourage habitual lateness.

5 mins every day is almost a half hour lost.

BobHopeless

Jesus i didn't even realise clocking in was a thing anymore. If you clocked out a minute late do you get paid for the extra 14 minutes?

KellyKelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954153#Comment_117954153

Its not My contract, its im doing payroll ( ive no training we are under staffed and doing payroll for different employee's ) and following Payroll Manager requests. She says if an employee is 1 minute late i need to deduct them 15 minutes from their salary.

Surely this should be in their contract? If they stay 20 mins late they get nothing extra.

KellyKelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954091#Comment_117954091

Exactly my point. Its ridiculous to loose 15 minutes wages over 1 minute. The staff often complain but not overly. Im wondering if its in their contracts, fair enough, but if not should i question the payroll manager about it. I dont want to look like an idiot

KellyKelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954143#Comment_117954143

But 1 minute in a whole week's work... Does it seem fair?

dennyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954337#Comment_117954337

That would absolutely have to be in their contracts. This WRC page covers the rules for such deductions in detail. An employer cannot unilaterally impose that sort of penalty wage deduction on their employees without their agreement and without having given a written record of that term to the employee before the act in question took place.

KellyKelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954623#Comment_117954623

That's what I thought. That it would have to be in Writing, in their Contracts. Surely you cant deduct someone 15 Minutes from their wage for clocking in 1 minute late. sounds Bizarre to me.

I am unsure how I should approach Payroll Manager about this. considering I don't know anything bout their contracts

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954337#Comment_117954337

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954695#Comment_117954695

Are you not trying to operate above your station a bit? you've been given guidance by your supervisor, what the protocol is for people who clock in after the designated time. Whether or not its in their contract is a matter between the employer and the employee and the contents of their contract.

you do not need to be privy to every minute detail of same, as its outside your remit.

If the employee feels they've been done a wrong, they'll bring it to the attention of their manager.

KellyKelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954726#Comment_117954726

Possibly that's how it looks.

Unfortunately how I feel is that these employee's are been taken advantage of. I have no way to communicate with them to encourage them to question it further with the Manager.

I feel awful deducting 15 minutes from employee's who clock in 1 minute late but stay the next day and work 20 minutes more with no extra pay.

Strumms

If you arrive to work 10 minutes late for whatever reason, just take a 50 minute lunch break or stay back 10 minutes after your finish time... if I’m a manager I’d request / ensure this solution was achieved .... fücking around deducting pay because of lateness isn’t exactly a good look... if needed ie. it’s habitual... other solutions might be best administered.

bucketybuck

If I was your boss, gave you this task and you came to me with this complaint I would respectfully tell you to do your **** job.

As you say yourself, you do not know anything about their contracts and I doubt you have been asked to crusade on their behalf.

And yes, deductions for being late are not uncommon, they are a punitive measure to discourage lateness.

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954812#Comment_117954812

In my experience, this kind of system is generally seen in factories where you can have a large amount of staff (between 20-60) coming on shift at a given time, Including a possible manager switchover as well.

If your job is operating a console or standing on a line, its not much good staying on 10 mins longer as your relief can't just dawdle for 10 mins while you earn your time back, and similarly, the person you were supposed to relieve can't go away until you arrive in the first place.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954817#Comment_117954817

There is, however, limits on what can be deducted.

For example, an employer could not deduct a day's pay for an employee being 5 minutes late.

It is a legitimate question to ask about the 15 minutes deduction for 1 minute lateness, if there is nothing specified in the contract of employment.

KellyKelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954817#Comment_117954817

But I am doing my job? How is it a complaint? I'm Questioning whether or not its in their contracts to do something so Bizarre. Deducting 15 minutes from someone wage for being 1 minute late. when they've been early every day. How is that right?

If my Boss told me not to complain and do my job i would complain even louder to somebody higher.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954854#Comment_117954854

Its a legitimate question for the employee to ask, yes.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954875#Comment_117954875

You state that the Payroll manager told you specifically what to do in that situation, but instead of doing it you are off on a crusade. Nobody asked you to, you don't know what their contracts are, and you are overstepping your authority.

And again, deducting time for being late is not bizarre, your lack of knowledge here really suggests that you tread carefully before making an arse of yourself in front of management.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954726#Comment_117954726

FFS!

She's asing is it legal. Above her station. Christ.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954875#Comment_117954875

The lesson here is stop being early. Its not valued. Be on time no more no less.

When I worked in Germany on a production line, we had to be 15 mins early to shift so we started on time. They did the same leaving though, everyone stopped 15mins early so they could clock out exactly at the same time.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954337#Comment_117954337

I'd ask for the direction regarding wage deductions in writing, under the guise of clarifying the rules for deductions e.g. query if the rule is that pay is calculated in 15 minute intervals and an employee must be clocked in at the start of a fifteen minute interval to be paid for it e.g.

clock in at or before 09:00 and pay is calculated from 09:00

clock in between 09:01 and 09:15 and pay is calculated from 09:15

clock in between 09:16 and 09:30 and pay is calculated from 09:30

is there any deduction if an employee clocks out early e.g. at 16:59?

is pay also calculated in 15 minute intervals if an employee clocks out late e.g. if an employee clocks out at 17:31 is their pay calculated to 17:45,

what are the rules for overtime, holiday pay, sick pay, etc...

ask is there a company handbook or anything that documents payroll procedures?

Put it in the context of wanting to learn to perform well in your role but a written reply also gives you proof of where the direction has come from should it ever be questioned in future.

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954903#Comment_117954903

Yeah, and shes been told about 4 times that it is legal depending on the contract with the employee, yet is still considering questioning it with her manager.

And this is a quote from the OP - I cant use this poxy new sites multi quote.

If the comment below isnt somebody acting outside their remit, then I dont know what is. Do the payroll like you were told, and leave the fairness of it to be a crusade for the unions or the employees themselves.

___________________________________________________________________________________

"Unfortunately how I feel is that these employee's are been taken advantage of. I have no way to communicate with them to encourage them to question it further with the Manager.

I feel awful deducting 15 minutes from employee's who clock in 1 minute late but stay the next day and work 20 minutes more with no extra pay."

____________________________________________________________________________________

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954942#Comment_117954942

Exactly.

Not every job is a civil servant flexi time IT role where you can make up the lost time later, many jobs are disproportionately affected by just one part of the team or process being late. Those places want reliability, not brilliance. Deductions aren't there to save money or to **** with the staff, they are there to encourage everybody to be in place when they are supposed to be, so that everybody else can get on with their jobs in turn.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954764#Comment_117954764

Your feelings about company policy are irrelevant, unless it is breaking the law.

So if they are earning minimum wage, then losing 15 minutes pay while only working 1 minute less would technically put them on less than is legal, and you could and should question it.

I'm picking that they're not on minimum wage, though.

Vestiapx

Minimum wage employees cannot be docked more than the amount they miss. After that employers should pay a bonus that is linked to good time keeping.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954842#Comment_117954842

Of course they can, no job would I or any colleagues ever stay back because the person on the following shift hasn’t shown up...

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954817#Comment_117954817

Employees can in turn discourage flexibility on their behalf as I’ve witnessed... if I turned up 5 minutes late and was chastised or deducted... I’d remember that when I’d be asked for OT, or another favor :)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210949/deduction-for-being-late

So you're down €2.50! Move on and get over it!!!

Be on time in future!