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Curb Your Enthusiasm - Season 11 - HBO Max (**Spoilers**)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭ Glebee


    pretty pretty pretty good. Cant wait. Rewatching old seasons. Some brilliant episodes in there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,689 ✭✭✭✭ silverharp


    I watched it all this year for the first time. Great show

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭ Glebee


    Pritty pritty poor start to S11 from me im sorry to say..😟



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    I thought the past two seasons were poor, but this new episode didn't feel as bad as that (although maybe my standards have slipped since I can't find anything good to watch). It's nowhere near peak Curb though, and overall the show has been pretty meh since the end of season 8. There just seems to be too many celeb fans queuing up to cameo now and the whole thing feels lazy. Larry is great, but no Cheryl to keep him tethered to normality has removed any accountability. Also Marty Funkhouser died in real life (Super Dave/Bob Einstein) and the loss of him and the diminishing presence of older characters ( Richard Lewis, Ted Danson etc) has hurt the show. Jeff Garlin looks in pain all the time as well. What the hell happened to him? Leon has become a zany, token black character and it's pretty offensive how they use him given that the creative people involved are comedy gods. Pretty, pretty, pretty shite :)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,078 ✭✭✭✭ Ash.J.Williams


    I enjoyed it immensely, time really is moving fast for the older cast members which saddens me. Since Norm McDonald died I'm seeing a lot more of super Dave funkhauser, funny man!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,185 ✭✭✭✭ The Nal


    Loved it. Great start.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,935 ✭✭✭✭ Zero-Cool


    Good opening, some funny bits, some not so funny. I thought they were gonna be mid lockdown or something but the covid hottest bit was brilliant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭ chicorytip


    Garlin has had a history of health problems. Heart surgery in his twenties, a stroke at thirty seven as well as obesity. He just went on a strict diet cutting out sugary foods. Larry looks to have aged considerably.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭ Glebee


    After 2 episodes its only mediocre from me, its just missing a spark. A few good bits alright but definitely not prime Curb material.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,935 ✭✭✭✭ Zero-Cool


    Yeah that 2nd ep was poor. So many forced interactions and unfunny scenarios. A glimpse of funny in there but the material just isn't great. Hopefully picks up a bit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,185 ✭✭✭✭ The Nal


    Liked the 1st. Episode 2 was a bit meh. Too long.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    It's recycling stories too much for my taste. How many pitch meetings going wrong do we have to see with Larry? They even had that in Seinfeld numerous times. The whole thing is just jaded and old. I can imagine the cast, director, and writers having a great laugh at the show now, but there is very little there for the viewers. But Larry is a legend and HBO loves him so they'll keep making it until he gives up. However they could at least change it up a bit, like how they moved Larry to New York a few years back. Or give him a realistic story arc that we can buy in to.

    Also the character of Leon is just a crazy, jive-talkin' stereotype with no purpose except to be a side-kick to Larry. It's crazy that somebody who wrote so well can give this rubbish the green-light. Something else that bothered me: I thought Larry would comment on Cheryl's obvious and horrible botox. His character certainly would have, so it's a bit lame that he didn't at least mention it once, the guy who notices everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,328 ✭✭✭✭ OmegaGene


    First two episodes seem tired, what was weird was the crew working for Netflix they seemed to tick a lot of boxes

    the toilet scene was just stupid



  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ Burty330


    Leon didn't become anything. He's the exact same as he was 15 years ago. Was he not "zany" when he was telling Larry to climb inside a mans ass cavity? What exactly is it about him that you find offensive?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    Don't get me wrong; I used to love Leon, but since his family ("The Blacks") left, he's had little to do except be a surrogate Kramer-figure for Larry. Larry was trying to get rid of him because he broke up with his sister which made sense, but now Leon is just there as part of the furniture with no real stories of his own. Leon gave me some of the best laughs in Curb ("long-ball Larry; Mopey Dick) but now he is just lame, his lines are lame, and the actor who plays Leon, JB Smoove, deserves better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ Burty330


    You can make the exact same argument about Larry - his lines , jokes etc have become lame. . None of them are as good as they were but why do you only find Leon to be offensive? You realize a lot of the new seasons are heavily improvised thus JB Smoove is pretty much writing his own jokes? I don't understand why he offends you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,328 ✭✭✭✭ OmegaGene


    Leon isn’t funny anymore since his family left

    Post edited by OmegaGene on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    Leon is a lazy, stereotype but at least his lines used to be funny. Now he's just an unfunny stereotype which to me is quite jarring. He is the only regular black character in the show, so it stinks of bad taste on the part of the show to depict the only black character like this, when he is surround by rich jews and whites. Read up on stereotypes of black people in media if you are so interested why Leon might be found to be offensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ Burty330


    I not going to read up about anything. In the 15 years since Leon first made his appearance I've not seen a single complaint about his character. In fact he was and still is noted as one of the best characters in the show. Furthermore, if you ever saw his stand up you see Leon is largely playing himself, so what exactly is he a stereotype of, his own identity?

    You think all black men act like Leon in the real world, hence your issue with alleged stereotyping



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  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ Burty330


    Leon being unfunny is just your opinion anyway, many would disagree. Another thing , those "whites and Jews" don't write JB Smooves dialogue or tell him what to do. Leon is entirely his own creation.


    "So I walk into the room and Larry is standing in the middle of the room, and I said, "Holy …." They said, "OK J.B., you're gonna improv with Larry." But I was already in Leon mode when I walked into the room. I said, "OK, let’s do this"

    You undermine his talent and the man himself when you argue he's being exploited for his blackness. "Leon has become a zany, token black character" as you put it..


    Smoove would take improv with David to a higher level, often dropping in nuggets about Black’s unknown origin story in the process. In the ninth season, for instance, Black mentions to a baffled David the many things he’s done while constipated, including running a 5K race, winning a hot dog-eating contest and shooting an adult film. Moments like these are why Conan O’Brien, Smoove’s friend, said on his podcast that the Black character is Smoove with extra layers of BS. Co-star Richard Lewis, a comedy legend, touted the “Curb” star to the Ringer as “one of the funniest comedians and comedic actors of my lifetime” and a “genius.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    So don't read up on anything. Don't educate yourself or challenge your views. I really don't care what you do.

    You haven't seen a single complaint? Have you read the whole internet? Here's an easily found article about it - https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/oct/29/curb-your-enthusiasm-america-appeal

    "The problem may be what the show is saying. Larry’s relationship with Leon Black – his layabout housemate, played by JB Smoove – has become a focal point for critics. Some say a lazy black character reiterates racist stereotypes. Others say the character is knowingly cartoonish and has endeared David to black America."

    JB Smoove is a successful actor and comedian making a good living, Leon is a layabout mooching off Larry and he is written by a team of white writers. Bit of a difference there, don't you think? Given that most people play exaggerated versions of themselves in Curb, could they not have JB play himself or a comedian, somebody with a realistic lifestyle, rather than a lazy stereotype? His presence makes the character of Larry very inconsistent too. He'll hassle people that owe him a few bucks, but will tolerate Leon squatting in his mansion. WTF? It just doesn't make sense.

    "You think all black men act like Leon in the real world, hence your issue with alleged stereotyping" 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    JB did not create the premise that brought Leon into the show, as a member of a black family saved by the Davids after Hurricane Katrina. Leon wasn't even a victim of that, he was living in L.A. and moved in and mooched off Larry and Cheryl. This premise was originally quite funny, but the idea that Larry would tolerate Leon's presence in his home beyond this is silly, and it weakens the integrity of the show.

    So JB Smoove can play the stereotype character anyway he wants? Wow, thank you Mr. David and other white/Jewish writers! Is that progress in your eyes? Every other character is affluent, successful and privileged. The only regular black chararcter is a free-loader. Is JB Smoove a free-loader in real life? You seem to know a lot about him. Enlighten me.

    His co-stars speaking so highly of him would mean something if his character wasn't such a lazy stereotype. I don't see any black actors in the show complementing his performance, because there aren't any.

    This arguing back and forth is a bit tiresome. I'm clearly right, so I'll wish you good day. Or you're clearly right, and I'll wish you a good day. Whatever works for you :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ Burty330


    The Guardians opinion pieces don't represent reality. Its not on him or you to take offensive on behalf of JB Smoove. Do you actually believe he'd accept you calling him a token black character on a show which he has so much creative freedom on? Just the fact you think Leon is written by white men shows how utterly ill-informed you are. You're free to not find him funny , but the real offence here is you thinking he brings nothing to the show apart from being a "token black man".



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    He's a negative stereotypical character. Most people would agree on that. He may have creative freedom to improvise lines, as do most of the cast, but his character was created and continues to be dictated by white and Jewish writers. If JB says I want Leon to be a positive black character now, do you think he really has the freedom to do that? Nah, he'll stay there shuckin' and jivin' for the white actors and writers entertainment. JB has a lot to bring to the show, and has brought the ruckus numerous times. I'm calling the writers lazy for not giving the character anything to do and for using lazy stereotypes. JB is great, the character of Leon has been funny and could be funny again if they just tried to give him a realistic presence in the show. He is a token black character given that there are no other black characters in the show now, and he has no reason to be in it - he doesnt' work with Larry, he doesn't belong to the area he lives in, he is entirely there to be a side-kick to Larry and to say bizarre ****. The character of Token in South Park was a token black character too, but the writers of South Park were smart enough to not make him a racial stereotype (beyond the instant bass-playing ability!).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    I'm not taking offence on behalf of JB Smoove. He's an actor who can do what he wants. But I take offence at the lazy depiction of a black character, and especially the fact that he is not funny anymore. As a comedy fan, I find that the most offensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ Burty330


    No , most people wouldn't agree on that. You are flat out wrong. Your pitiful Guardian article doesn't change the fast Smoove has received mass praise and acclaim ever since playing Leon. Many would agree he's one of the best characters on the show.

    This will be by last post to you as you are a filthy dishonest liar. You were already given a quote by Smoove stating he himself created Leon , not "white men"


    Smoove says that knowing too much even affects his process as an actor, and he’d rather come to set ready to just react as Leon would.

    “When I shoot, I shoot my scene, I leave. I don’t want to know who the special guest is, I don’t want to know the storyline. The first two seasons of the show, I didn’t even read the outline, because I wanted to be in the moment all the time,” Smoove said. “I got to the set and asked the producers, ‘what’s my motivation today? What did Larry do?” That way I could be in the moment and have a natural reaction to it. If I read the outline, studied too much over a few days, I’d come in overthinking it. I’d like to just be like a real person. How would a real person react to it?”


    That tells you right there just how much of Smoove is in the character of Leon. Larry has absolutely no influence whatsoever in how Leon acts , nor does he "dictate" to him how he should act.

    imo your issue with Leon stems from a whole list of other reasons that I won't get into. So that will be that. I came here to expose what you're about, Job done



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    You're missing my point about other people creating the character of Leon. They dictate the parameters that JB has to play around in, they like what JB does within those parameters, so he is confined to playing the same role year in year out because he has no real power on the show. But he probably doesn't care as he gets paid good money and he just has to turn up and do his schtick. He did not create the characters of The Blacks, nor Leon. He was cast in a role and given freedom to do what he wants in that role. Jeff Garlin is playing an agent called Jeff, not himself, so he can do what he wants in that role too. But his role is not a negative, stereotypical role. You seem quite focused on the actor and not the character which is what I am commenting on. I'd encourage you to read up on racial stereotype because you seem quite bothered by all this. You might get the points I am trying to make then.

    We're going around in circles. You have your view of things, and that's fine. Maybe take some rest before that vein in your forehead bursts :) BTW I didn't write the Guardian article, I just showed you that there are people who have issues with Leon. I figure an article in a major newspaper is more indicative of some reality rather that just what is going on in your head.


    BTW if you enjoy racial stereotypes in your comedy so much, I encourage you to watch some British 70s sitcoms such as Mind Your Language. You'll have a great time :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ Burty330


    Your argument is flawed as I don't hear you moaning about Richard Lewis playing the same role for 20 years while not working a day in his life.

    You wouldnt criticise kramer for laying about all day while aslo seemingly never working a day in his life. This is Just a TV show about characters doing funny things. It needn't be reflective of real life so Leon needing a day job is irrelevant. You are leveling criticism at him that you wouldnt level at a white man. This is because you belive being lazy is a stigma associated with a man like Leon. You believe he's stereotyping behaviour exhibited by men like Leon. You don't see your unconscious bigotry but I do.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭ artvanderlay


    You're not making any sense. Richard Lewis is playing himself, a successful stand-up comedian. He is not a main focus of the show but he obviously has money from his successful career. Do I need to point that out? In fact, the show has depicted Richard performing a comedy special, which I assume he made a lot of money from along with his other gigs. Clearly he's not a work-shy, loafer; he's an entertainer who gets well paid when he decides to work, much like Larry. He is also, most importantly, not a racially stereotypical character!

    I'm not saying anything that isn't obvious to anybody with half a brain. Clearly Leon follows the tradition of negative, stereotypes of African Americans. This has been studied and written about for years. Are you so ignorant? Here try a wiki article; it's fairly basic so you should be able to understand it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_African_Americans. Leon is a minstrel character, even though, yes, he is played by a black actor, and JB Smoove is complicit in this depiction. I have no problem with that; he can do what he wants. I just don't find lazy stereotypes very funny, especially when the guys running the show are not black but especially when the character lacks integrity and ceases to be funny. That's all I'm saying.

    A couple of other things: Kramer is not black, in case you hadn't noticed, so there is no racial stereotyping with his character. This and your mention of Richard Lewis shows how specious your argument is.

    Now you are clearly deliberately missing or unable to understand my argument, so, either way, I'm going to stop engaging with you now. Have a nice life. See you after the next episode :)



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