Curb Your Enthusiasm - Season 11 - HBO Max (**Spoilers**)

Agent Coulson

Starts October 24th

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6OFPyJg6qc&ab_channel=HBO

Glebee

pretty pretty pretty good. Cant wait. Rewatching old seasons. Some brilliant episodes in there.

silverharp

I watched it all this year for the first time. Great show

Glebee

Pritty pritty poor start to S11 from me im sorry to say..😟

artvanderlay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071431#Comment_118071431

I thought the past two seasons were poor, but this new episode didn't feel as bad as that (although maybe my standards have slipped since I can't find anything good to watch). It's nowhere near peak Curb though, and overall the show has been pretty meh since the end of season 8. There just seems to be too many celeb fans queuing up to cameo now and the whole thing feels lazy. Larry is great, but no Cheryl to keep him tethered to normality has removed any accountability. Also Marty Funkhouser died in real life (Super Dave/Bob Einstein) and the loss of him and the diminishing presence of older characters ( Richard Lewis, Ted Danson etc) has hurt the show. Jeff Garlin looks in pain all the time as well. What the hell happened to him? Leon has become a zany, token black character and it's pretty offensive how they use him given that the creative people involved are comedy gods. Pretty, pretty, pretty shite :)

S.M.B.

Can any show maintain an extremely high standard and feel cohesive over 11 seasons? I don't think so.

At this stage I'm a little curious to see how David would approach something different like Young Larry.

I also thought Hamm was one of the highlights of the episode again which makes me think I've no problem with the rotating cameos as long as they deliver.

Anyway, if the choice was this CYE or no Larry David on TV at all I'll happily take Season 11 CYE.

Ash.J.Williams

I enjoyed it immensely, time really is moving fast for the older cast members which saddens me. Since Norm McDonald died I'm seeing a lot more of super Dave funkhauser, funny man!

The Nal

Loved it. Great start.

Zero-Cool

Good opening, some funny bits, some not so funny. I thought they were gonna be mid lockdown or something but the covid hottest bit was brilliant.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072967#Comment_118072967

Garlin has had a history of health problems. Heart surgery in his twenties, a stroke at thirty seven as well as obesity. He just went on a strict diet cutting out sugary foods. Larry looks to have aged considerably.

Glebee

After 2 episodes its only mediocre from me, its just missing a spark. A few good bits alright but definitely not prime Curb material.

Zero-Cool

Yeah that 2nd ep was poor. So many forced interactions and unfunny scenarios. A glimpse of funny in there but the material just isn't great. Hopefully picks up a bit.

The Nal

Liked the 1st. Episode 2 was a bit meh. Too long.

artvanderlay

It's recycling stories too much for my taste. How many pitch meetings going wrong do we have to see with Larry? They even had that in Seinfeld numerous times. The whole thing is just jaded and old. I can imagine the cast, director, and writers having a great laugh at the show now, but there is very little there for the viewers. But Larry is a legend and HBO loves him so they'll keep making it until he gives up. However they could at least change it up a bit, like how they moved Larry to New York a few years back. Or give him a realistic story arc that we can buy in to.

Also the character of Leon is just a crazy, jive-talkin' stereotype with no purpose except to be a side-kick to Larry. It's crazy that somebody who wrote so well can give this rubbish the green-light. Something else that bothered me: I thought Larry would comment on Cheryl's obvious and horrible botox. His character certainly would have, so it's a bit lame that he didn't at least mention it once, the guy who notices everything.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072967#Comment_118072967

Leon didn't become anything. He's the exact same as he was 15 years ago. Was he not "zany" when he was telling Larry to climb inside a mans ass cavity? What exactly is it about him that you find offensive?

artvanderlay

Don't get me wrong; I used to love Leon, but since his family ("The Blacks") left, he's had little to do except be a surrogate Kramer-figure for Larry. Larry was trying to get rid of him because he broke up with his sister which made sense, but now Leon is just there as part of the furniture with no real stories of his own. Leon gave me some of the best laughs in Curb ("long-ball Larry; Mopey Dick) but now he is just lame, his lines are lame, and the actor who plays Leon, JB Smoove, deserves better.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123852#Comment_118123852

You can make the exact same argument about Larry - his lines , jokes etc have become lame. . None of them are as good as they were but why do you only find Leon to be offensive? You realize a lot of the new seasons are heavily improvised thus JB Smoove is pretty much writing his own jokes? I don't understand why he offends you?

artvanderlay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126532#Comment_118126532

Leon is a lazy, stereotype but at least his lines used to be funny. Now he's just an unfunny stereotype which to me is quite jarring. He is the only regular black character in the show, so it stinks of bad taste on the part of the show to depict the only black character like this, when he is surround by rich jews and whites. Read up on stereotypes of black people in media if you are so interested why Leon might be found to be offensive.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126637#Comment_118126637

I not going to read up about anything. In the 15 years since Leon first made his appearance I've not seen a single complaint about his character. In fact he was and still is noted as one of the best characters in the show. Furthermore, if you ever saw his stand up you see Leon is largely playing himself, so what exactly is he a stereotype of, his own identity?

You think all black men act like Leon in the real world, hence your issue with alleged stereotyping

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126637#Comment_118126637

Leon being unfunny is just your opinion anyway, many would disagree. Another thing , those "whites and Jews" don't write JB Smooves dialogue or tell him what to do. Leon is entirely his own creation.

"So I walk into the room and Larry is standing in the middle of the room, and I said, "Holy …." They said, "OK J.B., you're gonna improv with Larry." But I was already in Leon mode when I walked into the room. I said, "OK, let’s do this"

You undermine his talent and the man himself when you argue he's being exploited for his blackness. "Leon has become a zany, token black character" as you put it..

Smoove would take improv with David to a higher level, often dropping in nuggets about Black’s unknown origin story in the process. In the ninth season, for instance, Black mentions to a baffled David the many things he’s done while constipated, including running a 5K race, winning a hot dog-eating contest and shooting an adult film. Moments like these are why Conan O’Brien, Smoove’s friend, said on his podcast that the Black character is Smoove with extra layers of BS. Co-star Richard Lewis, a comedy legend, touted the “Curb” star to the Ringer as “one of the funniest comedians and comedic actors of my lifetime” and a “genius.”

artvanderlay

So don't read up on anything. Don't educate yourself or challenge your views. I really don't care what you do.

You haven't seen a single complaint? Have you read the whole internet? Here's an easily found article about it - https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/oct/29/curb-your-enthusiasm-america-appeal

"The problem may be what the show is saying. Larry’s relationship with Leon Black – his layabout housemate, played by JB Smoove – has become a focal point for critics. Some say a lazy black character reiterates racist stereotypes. Others say the character is knowingly cartoonish and has endeared David to black America."

JB Smoove is a successful actor and comedian making a good living, Leon is a layabout mooching off Larry and he is written by a team of white writers. Bit of a difference there, don't you think? Given that most people play exaggerated versions of themselves in Curb, could they not have JB play himself or a comedian, somebody with a realistic lifestyle, rather than a lazy stereotype? His presence makes the character of Larry very inconsistent too. He'll hassle people that owe him a few bucks, but will tolerate Leon squatting in his mansion. WTF? It just doesn't make sense.

"You think all black men act like Leon in the real world, hence your issue with alleged stereotyping" 😂

artvanderlay

JB did not create the premise that brought Leon into the show, as a member of a black family saved by the Davids after Hurricane Katrina. Leon wasn't even a victim of that, he was living in L.A. and moved in and mooched off Larry and Cheryl. This premise was originally quite funny, but the idea that Larry would tolerate Leon's presence in his home beyond this is silly, and it weakens the integrity of the show.

So JB Smoove can play the stereotype character anyway he wants? Wow, thank you Mr. David and other white/Jewish writers! Is that progress in your eyes? Every other character is affluent, successful and privileged. The only regular black chararcter is a free-loader. Is JB Smoove a free-loader in real life? You seem to know a lot about him. Enlighten me.

His co-stars speaking so highly of him would mean something if his character wasn't such a lazy stereotype. I don't see any black actors in the show complementing his performance, because there aren't any.

This arguing back and forth is a bit tiresome. I'm clearly right, so I'll wish you good day. Or you're clearly right, and I'll wish you a good day. Whatever works for you :)

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126960#Comment_118126960

The Guardians opinion pieces don't represent reality. Its not on him or you to take offensive on behalf of JB Smoove. Do you actually believe he'd accept you calling him a token black character on a show which he has so much creative freedom on? Just the fact you think Leon is written by white men shows how utterly ill-informed you are. You're free to not find him funny , but the real offence here is you thinking he brings nothing to the show apart from being a "token black man".

artvanderlay

He's a negative stereotypical character. Most people would agree on that. He may have creative freedom to improvise lines, as do most of the cast, but his character was created and continues to be dictated by white and Jewish writers. If JB says I want Leon to be a positive black character now, do you think he really has the freedom to do that? Nah, he'll stay there shuckin' and jivin' for the white actors and writers entertainment. JB has a lot to bring to the show, and has brought the ruckus numerous times. I'm calling the writers lazy for not giving the character anything to do and for using lazy stereotypes. JB is great, the character of Leon has been funny and could be funny again if they just tried to give him a realistic presence in the show. He is a token black character given that there are no other black characters in the show now, and he has no reason to be in it - he doesnt' work with Larry, he doesn't belong to the area he lives in, he is entirely there to be a side-kick to Larry and to say bizarre ****. The character of Token in South Park was a token black character too, but the writers of South Park were smart enough to not make him a racial stereotype (beyond the instant bass-playing ability!).

artvanderlay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127057#Comment_118127057

I'm not taking offence on behalf of JB Smoove. He's an actor who can do what he wants. But I take offence at the lazy depiction of a black character, and especially the fact that he is not funny anymore. As a comedy fan, I find that the most offensive.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127131#Comment_118127131

No , most people wouldn't agree on that. You are flat out wrong. Your pitiful Guardian article doesn't change the fast Smoove has received mass praise and acclaim ever since playing Leon. Many would agree he's one of the best characters on the show.

https://screenrant.com/curb-enthusiasm-every-supporting-character-ranked/

This will be by last post to you as you are a filthy dishonest liar. You were already given a quote by Smoove stating he himself created Leon , not "white men"

Smoove says that knowing too much even affects his process as an actor, and he’d rather come to set ready to just react as Leon would.

“When I shoot, I shoot my scene, I leave. I don’t want to know who the special guest is, I don’t want to know the storyline. The first two seasons of the show, I didn’t even read the outline, because I wanted to be in the moment all the time,” Smoove said. “I got to the set and asked the producers, ‘what’s my motivation today? What did Larry do?” That way I could be in the moment and have a natural reaction to it. If I read the outline, studied too much over a few days, I’d come in overthinking it. I’d like to just be like a real person. How would a real person react to it?”

That tells you right there just how much of Smoove is in the character of Leon. Larry has absolutely no influence whatsoever in how Leon acts , nor does he "dictate" to him how he should act.

imo your issue with Leon stems from a whole list of other reasons that I won't get into. So that will be that. I came here to expose what you're about, Job done

artvanderlay

You're missing my point about other people creating the character of Leon. They dictate the parameters that JB has to play around in, they like what JB does within those parameters, so he is confined to playing the same role year in year out because he has no real power on the show. But he probably doesn't care as he gets paid good money and he just has to turn up and do his schtick. He did not create the characters of The Blacks, nor Leon. He was cast in a role and given freedom to do what he wants in that role. Jeff Garlin is playing an agent called Jeff, not himself, so he can do what he wants in that role too. But his role is not a negative, stereotypical role. You seem quite focused on the actor and not the character which is what I am commenting on. I'd encourage you to read up on racial stereotype because you seem quite bothered by all this. You might get the points I am trying to make then.

We're going around in circles. You have your view of things, and that's fine. Maybe take some rest before that vein in your forehead bursts :) BTW I didn't write the Guardian article, I just showed you that there are people who have issues with Leon. I figure an article in a major newspaper is more indicative of some reality rather that just what is going on in your head.

BTW if you enjoy racial stereotypes in your comedy so much, I encourage you to watch some British 70s sitcoms such as Mind Your Language. You'll have a great time :)

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127540#Comment_118127540

Your argument is flawed as I don't hear you moaning about Richard Lewis playing the same role for 20 years while not working a day in his life.

You wouldnt criticise kramer for laying about all day while aslo seemingly never working a day in his life. This is Just a TV show about characters doing funny things. It needn't be reflective of real life so Leon needing a day job is irrelevant. You are leveling criticism at him that you wouldnt level at a white man. This is because you belive being lazy is a stigma associated with a man like Leon. You believe he's stereotyping behaviour exhibited by men like Leon. You don't see your unconscious bigotry but I do.

artvanderlay

You're not making any sense. Richard Lewis is playing himself, a successful stand-up comedian. He is not a main focus of the show but he obviously has money from his successful career. Do I need to point that out? In fact, the show has depicted Richard performing a comedy special, which I assume he made a lot of money from along with his other gigs. Clearly he's not a work-shy, loafer; he's an entertainer who gets well paid when he decides to work, much like Larry. He is also, most importantly, not a racially stereotypical character!

I'm not saying anything that isn't obvious to anybody with half a brain. Clearly Leon follows the tradition of negative, stereotypes of African Americans. This has been studied and written about for years. Are you so ignorant? Here try a wiki article; it's fairly basic so you should be able to understand it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_African_Americans. Leon is a minstrel character, even though, yes, he is played by a black actor, and JB Smoove is complicit in this depiction. I have no problem with that; he can do what he wants. I just don't find lazy stereotypes very funny, especially when the guys running the show are not black but especially when the character lacks integrity and ceases to be funny. That's all I'm saying.

A couple of other things: Kramer is not black, in case you hadn't noticed, so there is no racial stereotyping with his character. This and your mention of Richard Lewis shows how specious your argument is.

Now you are clearly deliberately missing or unable to understand my argument, so, either way, I'm going to stop engaging with you now. Have a nice life. See you after the next episode :)

artvanderlay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128834#Comment_118128834

Very true :)

Acosta

First two episodes were very average. It's still got a few small laughs, but it didn't do much for me. Hope Lewis comes into it at some point. Jeff has lost a load of weight.

The Nal

Episode 3 is great.

furiousox

Episode 3 is as good as any classic episode of Curb.

"Goebbels is the GOAT" 😂

Glebee

S11 just not doing it for me😕

artvanderlay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143367#Comment_118143367

It was a slight improvement, but still it feels very tired. You would wonder why they bothered? I don't think I laughed at anything.

Bandana boy

the guy getting offended on behalf of all black people , you actually come across more bigoted , a black person can be written lazy or work shy.

anyhoo the demise of curb is often predicted on here , and it’s not as good as it once was , why did they bother etc . watching every week and telling everyone it’s no longer any good , why are you watching bad racist tv every week , do you just want to be outraged?

it’s curb , it’s great .episodes like a disturbance in the kitchen or the ugly side of the restaurant are now classics ,where run down by these folks at the time .

artvanderlay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144323#Comment_118144323

I'm not getting offended on behalf of all black people. I'm just pointing out that Leon is a racial stereotype; that's fairly obvious if you looked into the history of racial stereotypes in America. It is particularly jarring because Leon is the only black guy in a show populated by rich Jews and whites. Plus he's not funny anymore which is the worst part! You enjoy watching racial stereotypes and that's fine. Have fun :)

Also I continue to watch in the hope that it will improve. Curb used to be one of my favourite comedy shows, and I love Larry, so I will continue to post my opinions. If you don't like, don't engage! Worry about your own stupid feedback rather than looking for petty arguments. For the record I only replied to anyone on this thread because they attacked my opinions. And I will continue to do so, so bring it on!

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143196#Comment_118143196

Yep had me chuckling aswell.

Bandana boy

Again you are putting your prejudices against Black people into the minds of the writers of this show , this shouts your bigotry not Larry or anyone else connected to the show.

There has been many jokes about racism in the show and in typical Curb fashion Larry is using peoples bigotry to poke fun and subvert what Racism actually is . Obviously this is too subtle for you.

You keep saying Leon is the only black character , there have been many black characters in the show .

Quit your white knighting , as usual the person shouting loudest about these things is usually just mirroring their own bigotry and phobias.

artvanderlay

You're the one commenting on my comments and I clearly poked something within you to get such a reaction. Maybe you're the bigot?! Why don't you just enjoy your little stereotypes and not apologise for it? Watch Leon talkin' zany **** to the whities. And the new Mexican girl dancing around and acting zany! Maybe they'll get an Irish leprachaun character next week, although you probably would have a bit of "outrage" at that (people like you usually have double standards). I love your terminology too: "outrage", "white knighting" - don't you have a BLM thread to troll? Yes, they did have other black characters in the show (well done for noticing) but they are not there now, which makes Leon's presence even more jarring. The only black character is now a racial stereotype. Wanda Sykes used to be a good foil to Larry. Where's she gone?

Larry used to be subversive and clever, now he's just an old white man who thinks laughing at stereotypes, without subverting them, is funny. Enjoy, and know that everytime you reply to my comments I enjoy the fact that I have clearly annoyed the inner racist in you. Either that or you just have bad taste in comedy :)

p.s. You do have the option of ignoring my replies. As Lisa Simpson once sang "just don't look, just don't look" :)

Bandana boy

Ah so if I don't agree with you that something is racist it is because I am racist.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Curb has always been a show too subtle for some people , You don't think its funny and you think its racist , we have heard you , now leave us humourless racists to enjoy our show.

SNNUS

Enough!!

artvanderlay

And if I point out something that I think is lazy stereotyping (and unfunny), it's because I'm an inner bigot??? I'm highlighting how stupid both your logic and amateur psychology are. Leave well enough alone now. You're the one who keeps replying to me. Why don't you let me have my opinion and just walk on by? In general, life is a lot easier if you do that. Just focus on the positives.

Curb was fantastic from Season 1 through to 8, then it lost something (probably because of the large gap between season 8 and 9). Larry used to have his finger on the pulse of modern comedy - he practically invented it - but nobody can stay at the top forever. Yes, his comedy was subtle, but also quite unsubtle; either way, I don't care what it is so long as it's funny. It's not funny anymore and maybe I wouldn't notice the racial stereotypes so much if I was distracted by my laughter! I'll continue to watch it out of some stupid sense of loyalty to the show and in the hope of an occasional classic scene, like Larry trying to deflate the sex doll in the last season.

Now go enjoy your "subtle" comedy with Leon talkin' jive, random sh*t and the Mexican girl, gyrating and acting insane, and serving tacos. That's real subtle and clearly goes above my head :)

artvanderlay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145778#Comment_118145778

He started it :) Much like the previous poster that attacked me. The opinion police are out in force on this thread!

Effects

I'd give this series a 6/10 so far.

I liked the non binary joke in the opening scene of season 3.

Bandana boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145925#Comment_118145925

you had 10 posts derailing the thread about racism in the show before I said anything , but go on your the victim standing up for yourself.

I will leave it at this ...

Comedy as an artform often holds up a mirror to society and pokes fun at racism and bigotry , the tone and context of the joke is very important , we often see warriors like yourself converting things to text and pointing and screaming aha look !, this is bad and because I spotted it arn't i good. We should forgive you though as Larry is often even more subtle than other top comedians , and the context can be over a season or with Leon over several seasons not just an episode or a scene.

You though should be willing to accept that just because you think aha racism, its still only your opinion , it doesn't mean racism be here and that the idea you might have missed the joke is a possibility and you should be open to having things explained to you.

artvanderlay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118146769#Comment_118146769

Myself and the other poster had let things lie (which he had started by attacking my opinion; I defended myself). You then started in on me, and wouldn't let things lie after that. These are facts. Leon playing a racial stereotype character is also a fact. Curb used to be subversive, but more importantly, funny, and did racial stereotypes quite well; not so much now though. That's my opinion. You seem quite bothered that I pointed out something that I found jarring. I don't think Larry or the writers are racist, but I do think they are lazy, and they should come up with something funnier in the best tradition of Curb. Lazy stereotypes are just not funny to me, but others, like yourself, seem to enjoy them, so live and let live :)

I think you should take a lie down. "Warriors" like me (that is, people expressing an opinion that you don't like) seem to have a negative impact on you.

Bandana boy

Calm down Rafa

your facts are in fact just opinions .

I am just pointing out that in my opinion , where you are seeing racism and lazy writing , it is actually humour to subtle for you . Find an easier show and leave off casting racism dispersions on everybody who moves. Because again in my opinion that kind of behaviour is actually a real racist trying to hide in the grass.

artvanderlay

Apologies to the other posters on this thread. I thought that this was a place to express our opinions about Curb, but I'm wrong apparently. I will continue to defend my opinions if they continue to be attacked, so hopefully others will just let things lie and worry about their own contributions.

One thing in the last episode: Leon putting up signs looking for a Mary Ferguson. Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to scour social media and send his proposition to the Marys that he liked the look of?

Bandana boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118132633#Comment_118132633

Lewis will only be in one episode because he was very ill throughout filming.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118109881#Comment_118109881

Well he is a pitcher