Grazing/Silage rental prices

Hyperbollix

Currently renting around 40ac to a local dairy farmer and lease is coming up for review end of the year. Entitlements were gifted to the farmer a few years back when the landowner could no longer hold them. Land is in good condition, well cared for. The farmer always paid my late father grazing prices but has been routinely getting two cuts of silage from it every year. There's been no change in rental fee for years.

Can anyone give me an idea on what's a fair price per ac in this situation? Thanks

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210267/grazing-silage-rental-prices

Allot depends on area and land quality

Best thing is to speak other local farmers leasing out and then the local Auctioneer

If the current tenant is treating the place well and are paying close to what’s going locally it would be best stick with them

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210267/grazing-silage-rental-prices

If it's good enough to cut silage off twice a year, you'd be thinking of £300/acre

satstheway

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush springs to mind.

Are there other trustworthy farmers in the immediate location who would be interested?

Be very sure before you ask for an amount.

Hyperbollix

Thanks for the replies.

Ideally, I'd like to keep this man on as he has been here ages, is very conscientious with everything from keeping animals well fenced in to being careful about leaving muck off tractor wheels around the house/lane. He's helpful too if you ever needed anything done around the place.

I'm just aware that he's had a sweetheart deal for the last number of years and has had the benefit of a fixed low rental price and on top of the single payment being gifted to him.

I will probably run it by the local auctioneer so.....

893bet

What is he paying it the question?

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934815#Comment_117934815

If you gave us an idea on land type and price being paid you would probably get better answers. Land prices can range from €100 - €600+ an acre depending on land type and demand.

I have 40 acres rented on a 5 year lease at the moment, with this now the end of the third year. I got it at a good price at the time and with the way prices have increased since I have it at a very good price. It’s heavy land so stock will have to be off it by mid October as it gets wet from then on. Light stock can be put on some of it early March but it would be mid April before any heavier stock could be put on it.

In the three years I’m in it I’ve paid in full in January every year, I’ve put in extra water troughs, fenced the road ditches, paddocked out some of the bigger fields, sprayed all of it with Forefront T to kill docks and weeds, put in a pen and a crush, widened and put in 2 new pillars for the road gates, supplied 1 gate for the road with the second given by the owner as he had one in the yard.

I cut the ditches every year, took soil samples the first year and have spread slurry and fert accordingly based on these. K should have risen an index by now, p was fine already. The road is never dirtied and thankfully, so far, cattle have never broke out. I never have any contact with the owner only when I ring him to tell him I’ve transferred the money to his account in January and before doing any of the digging for pen, gates etc. I rang him to get his permission

I will be very disappointed if all of this isn’t taken into account when it comes to the lease being renewed. With the way prices have went I wouldn’t mind a small increase but anything major of an increase and I’ll be very disappointed. There’s an 11 acre field that needs to be reseeded so I’ll be discussing the lease renewal with the owner next Spring and if we agree on an extension i will reseed that field.

It sounds like you have a good tenant, you should be eager to keep him so these things should work both ways.

C0N0R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935349#Comment_117935349

Unsure here as to what you mean, but are you saying that although land prices have gone up and you're paying below market rent but because you have looked after the place well and improved on it that you should have to pay market rates?

I agree that if the owner is leasing it again you should get first refusal at a fair price, but wouldn't feel that because you have invested in it that you should get it well below market rates. Not sure if that's what you're trying to say.

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932923#Comment_117932923

That is not an unreasonable rent for dairying these days. €350 and €400 has been paid.

A local silage contractor should have a good fix on what prices are going. It would be better if you could quote a local example to the tenant.

Not less than €250 per acre anyway. Or €10,000 for the 40 acres.

cute geoge

.I am renting a few fields for silage about a mile away but have to pay cash .Was giving E180/acre with maps landlord wants to up it .He is drawing s.w. so all cash.I would like to hold on to this bit of ground for another year but is heavish ground that in a wet year you would need a fine week to cut it in back end ,you could not travel with slurry until April .It does me the finest no land available local to rent mostly dairy old layout

I rent out my back field. Only 3 /2 acres for 150 an acre

It was in poor condition when I bought the house and he has fertilised it and improved it. He got 1 cut last year and 2 this year. He also puts a few cows in for a few weeks up to Christmas to tidy it up for winter. Will see if he does it this year after a 2nd cut.

Suits me with the field being tidied up and the benefit of the manure on the field

He looks after the place and respects my land. Rented to a guy previously who abused it. He only did it once.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932923#Comment_117932923

How are corn men getting land? Any land that is good enough to till is good enough to grow two cuts of grass. Those lads can't be paying 300 quid an acre surely? And if I was renting out land I'd prefer to rent it to a fella long term for silage than long term tilling.

At 300 an acre, you'd be better off finding a fella who will sell you half decent stuff. Especially if it's only to supplement what you already have yourself.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940792#Comment_117940792

Surely it’s more how the land is managed, than tillage vs grass…

Two cuts of silage is hard on ground if it’s not getting the nutrients back. I would think grass is more forgiving than grain, in that grass will continue to grow whereas grain might not…

But, constant tillage is hard on the soil all right to be fair…

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940106#Comment_117940106

Not unreasonable?, everything has to be taken in context but I think you'll find land going for 350/ 400 is few and far between and if so includes sfp back as rent so landlord can get it taxfree, which may be unlikely to continue with the new cap coming in. I know of nobody paying that much

Hyperbollix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935070#Comment_117935070

Currently getting around 175 p/a. Land is on high ground, but not hilly. Never water logged apart from spells of really excessive rain. He has cattle on it early in the season and right up til December usually.

I was chatting with a man also renting to a dairy farmer (not local, but in same county) and when I mentioned 40 ac, €10k was the figure he put on it too.

Had to get the place valued for probate with a local auctioneer who is familiar with the land, so best bet would be to see what they say is the going rate I suppose and go from there.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941085#Comment_117941085

The whole thing is gone completely out of control

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117940792#Comment_117940792

some of mine is for tillage at 300/acre

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941867#Comment_117941867

It was always the same, many times I often had nice land rented only for a dairy farmer to come along and take me out of it.

Some from up to 50 miles away

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942216#Comment_117942216

That's madness. They are paying you to work your ground for you. For spuds or veg I'd expect that, but not for cereals.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942381#Comment_117942381

That's without my entitlements, so they obviously have good entitlements of their own

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942398#Comment_117942398

They must do. And must be stuck for maps. They can't be making anything off what they are growing and selling. They'd need a good year to break even! And you don't get good years every year

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942226#Comment_117942226

Ya your right really its always generally been the same.......but just at the moment it seems to me that there's disproportionate amount of risk involved in farming at the moment ....from all angles and that the farmers will be leftto carry the can if they are able 🙄

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117941146#Comment_117941146

Ya all solid advice and a good plan on your part my own sixpence wouldbe just to try strike a happy medium between the rental price and a good client that looks after your asset.....and who will also pay. Plenty of places round here never get paid for the final year of a lease most would be considered high priced places . Lousy but what does one do

wrangler

I see a 55ac block in Kilkeny was leased for 400/acre during the week....... not bad if you can get it

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986204#Comment_117986204

Wow 😳 would it be good enough to keep stock out grazing until Christmas time

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117942381#Comment_117942381

That’s commo price for spring barley where I am in Wexford

tillage lads will beat you off the table all day long

nice size block not far from here is going fo300/ac plus 93€ entitlements back to the owner

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986723#Comment_117986723

High prices always cure high prices, the amount of land coming on the market at the moment is unreal.

That, coupled with the cap on milk production should sort the high prices

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986732#Comment_117986732

Been like that for the last 3 years around here

fert prices will hopefully have a big impact on land price for the spring

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986754#Comment_117986754

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986732#Comment_117986732

I hope both of you are correct......but it's just not going to happen

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987410#Comment_117987410

Heard this morning of 45 acres not far away

3rd year out of forestry

was given for free the 1st year

100€ the 2nd year

owner wanted 250/ac this autumn, guy farming it said no

local auctioneer has it now and it at 420/ac this morning

for tillage

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987943#Comment_117987943

I thought that once you put land in forestry it had to stay in forestry

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987943#Comment_117987943

Thats only over the road from me, across the border into the next parish.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988073#Comment_117988073

Christmas trees.

mr.stonewall

If the forestry plantation sold, does this allow the removal of the requirement to repay grant aid, if cleared

Mooooo

Afaik the only way forestry can be cleared, and returned to farmland, is if a similar acreage is planted elsewhere.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988310#Comment_117988310

Yes as far as I know that’s what has to be done

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988073#Comment_117988073

When we plant land we need to apply for license for same... it is made clear at this stage that it will never be unplanted... to fell the trees a person has to apply for a license...

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988310#Comment_117988310

That must be only a recent thing is it? A man over the road here inherited a farm from a deceased uncle about 10 or 12 years ago. There was 40 acres in forestry. He removed about 35 acres of it and back into grassland. All he had to do was pay the forestry grant (or whatever it was called!) back to the department. I think it was north of €100,000 he had to pay back.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988541#Comment_117988541

You used to be able to do that up to a certain stage e.g. before 10 years had passed. That isn't possible any more. It is a one-way change now. Theoretically you can plant equivalent in lieu but that is only really practical if you buy land beside you with trees and then buy equivalent somewhere else and hope to be allowed to do that. It wouldn't be worth your while buying trees to use as an outfarm, then buying a second one to "transfer" the trees from the first one to it

wrangler

This is from teagasc in 2017.

DBKs friend was lucky to be able to do what he did

The Forest Service may consider conversion to agricultural land in limited instances, having regard to the scale and character of the area proposed for deforestation. The conversion of forest land to agricultural land is considered deforestation, and the owner must first obtain a felling licence. The afforestation of alternative land and the refunding of grant and premium payments are required – see Table 5 and Section 5.7 for details.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989423#Comment_117989423

Looks like he definitely wouldn’t be allowed do it now alright. The same lad wouldn’t in any way have left anything to chance, it must have been completely above board at the time or he wouldn’t have done it.

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988168#Comment_117988168

I have heard the replanting obligation is personal. That is , it seems, it is not a burden attached to the land/property.

Say if a retiring farmer clear felled with obligation to replant. And then sold or transferred the land the obligation may be redundant?

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991001#Comment_117991001

Is it not a condition of the felling license to replant

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986204#Comment_117986204

Taken by a beef farmer and in County laois if we were knitpicking.. I'm sure there is a story behind it or they may have lost land that they were claiming high value entitlements on or something..otherwise im lost maybe a broken calculator??