10 Million euro Soil Sampling Programme.

farm to fork

I came across this on Agriland the other day and spoke to a few people about it. But they were as much in the dark as I was, can anyone shed some light on the topic.

I presume it will come with some caveat, where it will have a bearing on your nitrates etc. But it would be nice to get a comprehensive insight to soil quality on the farm without the major expense.  

blue5000

I think they are trying to find out how much OM is in the soil.

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/efa7a-mcconalogue-launches-10-million-soil-sampling-and-analysis-programme/

Some Gov info here

Dozer1

so scheme is to open today right? I amn't in Teagasc so no option showing for me on the dept site do I need to go through a private agent or does anyone know

Dozer1

application option is on the agfood site now for anyone interested

farm to fork

My big fear of signing up is that if they do a comprehensive test for you the findings might bite you in the arse later on down the road.

Donald Trump

I think that there are rules for those producing over 170kg/ha in their Nitrates that they have to have a liming plan if soil samples exist

Kevhog1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944118#Comment_117944118

Just sign up on agfoods. i did it this morning

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944118#Comment_117944118

It looks like the dept will organise a third party outfit to take the samples if you apply for participation in the scheme

ABitofsense

I read through the Terms & conditions, seems straight forward. They'll come out & soil sample and then send you results. Its something that i need to do anyway so might as well join and save a few bob organizing it myself.

tellmeabit

hi all,

looking for lil more info on this, not much given away on agfood about it.

advisor takes samples.

is it a case that you pay for the samples and advisor and then the advisor gives you their reading of them?

would it not be cheaper for one to rent the bleeding sampler and take them themselves. the labs give a rundown of the results dont they?

Kevhog1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210646/soil-sampling-scheme

My assumption of it was that the sampling and results were free but you got no grant for entering the scheme like you do for others like the sheep welfare scheme?

tellmeabit

oh ok, thats probably it, i didnt follow it:

"In lieu of payment each famer will receive the analysis reports with information on macro- and micro-nutrients, soil carbon and average farm level load of harmful bacteria."

sounds grand so.

blue5000

Threads merged as both on same topic.

Anto_Meath

Right I haven't done any research in to this apart from what I have read in the Journal and Argiland but if I am correct my understanding is:

The government will pay "an advisor" to take soil samples on my farm, they will then pay a laboratory to test the samples and issue me a report on the soil condition of my land. But I don't get any payment for participating in this scheme however I could end up been told what I have to or cant spread on my land going forward. It doesn't sound that encouraging to me at the minute anyway. Can't understand the need for an advisor to take the samples and the most to be taken on any farm is 16 samples.

Dozer1

one thing I did hear was contract was awarded to an outside of Ireland company so samples will be flown out, whether that's due to a lab here not being able or what I don't know.

Either way we are going to be told what we can and cannot do on our land so I applied as better be in these things from the start is my experience as no doubt they will tie further schemes to you being involved in this and the other hair brained schemes

Say my name

I have no idea what harmful bacteria is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946392#Comment_117946392

E-coli, Spirilla, and others (I assume).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946294#Comment_117946294

Probably the exact same reason I won't join it 😁 Though some aspects would be interesting.

SuperTortoise

How much would it cost to get an average farm soil sampled?

timple23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947005#Comment_117947005

€30/35 per sample/field. I think that is a basic test.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947005#Comment_117947005

FBA lane in Waterford are €14 for PH P & K

They’re €30 for more in-depth test

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946982#Comment_117946982

I think I saw some message from IAS Bagnelstown thanking the ministers for a contract?

I was going to go and register but after seeing messages that forest owners who received grants from the government means they've waived their right to the timber carbon, I've thought again. God we've really some hatred from dublin civil servants towards farmers and landowners. Get a college degree, work for the government, turn into a pr##k.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947309#Comment_117947309

Lol, I like to be independent! They don't need to know about my soils as far as I'm concerned.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947309#Comment_117947309

On forestry, I wonder could that be challenged. Meaning what were the T's & C's the farmer agreed to join the scheme under. If they didn't include CC's I'd be telling them go whistle.

893bet

Applied.

Timely given fert is rising so measurement becomes more important.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947556#Comment_117947556

The only worry I’d have is if your results come back as index 3 or 4 for P, will your fertiliser usage be curtailed in the future based on that?

tellmeabit

I'd imagine my results will stink. Didn't think that it could be used to limit what you can apply thou. Suppose if selected could always leave..

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947728#Comment_117947728

That would be the concern alright. Especially if near a waterways similar.

But if index is high you don’t need the fert? And it wouldn’t be long dropping if less was applied.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947829#Comment_117947829

Agreed, although there are certain circumstances where it could get tricky. I have one block of land that’s off the scale for P, if the indexes kept rising after 4 it’d be up somewhere near index 10 the agronomist says. It’s above the maximum that can be measured. Obviously it shouldn’t need any extra P but the agronomist says at such a high level of P, it is probably locked in the soil and so I need to get a maintenance level out every year on it to keep growth right. I do this by getting slurry on it a few times a year and the only bagged fert it gets is mostly 19-0-15 or just nitrogen. If I was prevented from allowing any P out on that would it mean I wouldn’t be allowed spread slurry there?

Also, as far as I remember, and I stand to be corrected, for anyone lowly stocked, I think at less than 120kgs/ha of organic N, if you are index 3 in land you’re only allowed 8 or 10 units of P per acre per year, unless you can show the land is used solely for silage or that the silage or hay taken from it was sold off farm. If you are index 4 you’re not allowed any P at all regardless of stocking rate. That’s fine for any fert you’re buying, it can be bought without the P but it also leaves you in a situation where you can’t import any slurry as you wouldn’t be allowed bring in the P in the slurry. Around here there is easy access to pig slurry and it’s a huge help to keep the fertiliser costs down so if I wasn’t allowed import pig slurry due to soil sample results it would have an economical effect on my farm as I’d have to buy in more N and K instead of using the free pig slurry.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948562#Comment_117948562

Maybe I’m over thinking it but if the results are there and on the department database they have the info required to them tell you what you can or can’t spread. For anyone that imports slurry or dung I’d be advising them to work out their figures first before jumping into it.

roosterman71

How do ya apply for this?

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949115#Comment_117949115

On Agfood.ie, theres a section for it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947309#Comment_117947309

You do realise that dublin only is one Dafm office out of many. Was probably devised in Cavan.

Mooooo

Question id have is in regard to the info collected and it's ownership, esp with the waybthey are acting towards the the carbon ownership in forestry. Wouldnt put it past the state to claim ownership of carbon in the soil as well and use it for trading, leaving us high and dry

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953095#Comment_117953095

I'm in 2 minds about this, on the one hand a full soil analysis would be good to have if you could take the terms and conditions at face value that this is to encourage farmers to optimise fertiliser usage.

On the other hand there's a Trojan horse feel about this. The government do have a tendency to move the goalposts when it suits them.

On balance with the forestry example I'm more likely to opt out and pay to get analysis done myself.

patsy_mccabe

So who gets paid? Are the tests effectively free or do we get any payment for joining?

I'm too lazy to read T&Cs.

blue5000

Signed up this morning mainly just to see what carbon levels are like in the soil now and to see how they change over the next few years. This suits me because I've just gone organic this year. Seen a few organic farmers regretting not archiving soil from before they went organic on youtube, this will be good enough of an archive for me.

The people this might not be suitable for are the ones importing or exporting slurry, if levels get too high they'll be stopped from importing it. Or if they're too low questions might be asked, they'll know cattle numbers, milk and beef sales are all easy enough to track, P&K sales are probably all available too, what's in the soil is the last piece of the jigsaw.

Loss of carbon due to ploughing could be a problem, forcing min-till on some of us. Apparently the exact spot the samples come from is going to be recorded so that the next sample comes from the same spot. The only problem I see with this is if it's ploughed the results will be skewed as the most fertile soil is on top.

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954221#Comment_117954221

The Agency taking the samples, the soil testing lab and more than likely you will have to have Teagasc membership. Farmer gets the interpreted results and advice.

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955370#Comment_117955370

I don't have teagasc membership and applied. It's not needed. They state that results will be sent to the farmer

tellmeabit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953620#Comment_117953620

Can't one pull out of the scheme if they do.

Bog Man 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954227#Comment_117954227

In Min till and zero till the most fertile soil is on top . It is known as layering .In some countries they are looking for the farmer to build up Carbon in the soil and when it gets high to deep plough it so it cannot be lost by subsequent land activities If you want to loose carbon plough a ley field to reseed it every five years .

Sugarbowl

Who takes the samples? An ag advisor from the local Teagasc?

clonagh

When do you find out if you've been accepted/or not into the scheme?

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956535#Comment_117956535

No, a contracted outside firm.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962005#Comment_117962005

Farmeye

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947542#Comment_117947542

It would appear that this was a statement made by Minister McConalogue without any evidence to back it up. He was relying on the fact that grants were provided to plant the forests. Grants were provided for, cattle sheds etc. Will he also claim ownership of the slurry produced?. Never thought much of him , this statement shows how out of touch he is. With the backlash he is getting I don't think he will get very far with it

.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965627#Comment_117965627

He is the 3rd choice to be fair to the chap, he should never of got anywhere next our near the job...

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966288#Comment_117966288

He got the job by default, an FF TD west of the Shannon, the only others didn't get on with Micheal Martin.

endainoz

Looks like the scheme is over subscribed already, if not it's pretty much at capacity. Nice to see a good take up in it.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/almost-8000-applications-for-soil-sampling-programme-so-far/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965627#Comment_117965627

Hopefully he won't, by his logic they could claim anything they want. CAP is being used to seriously over reach with many "projects".