The new National Development Plan 2021-2030

marno21

The Government will shortly publish a new and improved National Development Plan upto 2030. We've had 2 of these since 2015, with varying results, which I will post here and then discussion and speculation regarding the new one can follow.

The main talking points for the new NDP are:

* An increase in the overall money available - how much of this is for roads?

* The large amount of projects not completed from previous NDPs

* The role of the Green Party in deciding what goes in this

* The planning process and the continued stonewalling of road schemes and infrastructure in general.

The last NDP (2018-2027) included allocations for the following to proceed to construction:

1. N2 Slane bypass (current status: in planning, to be sent to ABP in 2022)

2. N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin (opened September 2021)

3. N5 Westport-Turlough (under construction, complete 2022)

4. N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge (construction to commence shortly)

5. M6 Galway City Ring Road (stuck in the planning system since 2018)

6. M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass upgrade (complete 2020)

7. N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange (under construction, 2024 opening)

8. N11 upgrade Phase 1 Kilmacanogue (under construction)

9. M11 Gorey-Enniscorthy (complete 2019)

10. M20 Cork-Limerick (route selection)

11. N72 Mallow Relief Road (preferred route selected)

12. M21 Limerick-Adare-Foynes (stuck in planning since 2019)

13. N22 Macroom-Baile Bhuirne (under construction, 2023 opening)

14. N25 New Ross (opened 2020)

15. M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy (advance works, 2024 start)

16. N52 Ardee bypass (planning delays, 2023 start)

17. N56 Mountcharles-Inver (opened 2021)

18. N56 Dungloe-Glenties (Phase 1-3 complete, Phase 4/5A under construction, Phase 5B to proceed to tender)

19. N59 Westport-Mulranny (partially under construction)

20. N59 Moycullen bypass (tender ongoing, construction to commence later this year)

21. N69 Listowel bypass (tender ongoing)

22. N86 Tralee-Dingle (Phase 1 complete, Phase 2 to procure shortly, remaining 18km pending)

So of those 22 schemes, there's 5 open to traffic, 7 under construction (including 2 phased schemes), 2 at tender, 2 at advance works (including N86 phased), 3 in the planning process, 1 at design and 2 at route selection.

In addition to this, the NDP provided for 23 schemes to get to planning approval stage:

1. N2 Ardee-Castleblayney (design)

2. N2 Rath Roundabout-Kilmoon Cross (design)

3. N2 Clontibret-A5 (design)

4. N3 Clonee-M50 (design)

5. N3 Virginia bypass (route selection)

6. N4 Mullingar-Longford (route selection)

7. N4 Carrick on Shannon-Dromod (route selection)

8. M4 Maynooth-Leixlip (options selection)

9. N11/N25 Oilgate-Rosslare Harbour (design)

10. N11/M11 J4-J14 improvement (route selection)

11. Donegal TEN-T (N13 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass, N14 Letterkenny-Lifford, N13/N56 Letterkenny improvements) (ABP imminent)

12. N17 Knock-Collooney (route selection)

13. N21 Abbeyfeale (route selection)

14. N21 Newcastlewest (route selection)

15. N22 Killarney-Farranfore (route selection)

16. N24 Cahir-Waterford (route selection)

17. N24 Limerick Junction-Cahir (route selection)

18. N25 Waterford-Glenmore (design)

19. N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton (design)

20. N52 Tullamore-Kilbeggan (route selection)

21. Dublin Port South Access (?)

Final routes selected for 10 of these by my count. 0 gone to ABP.

This means of the entire lot of schemes currently active (40), 7 are under construction, 2 are at tender, 2 are at advance works, 3 are at ABP, 11 are at design and 15 are still not in final route selection.

TII has also asked for a further 10 projects to be included in the new NDP (not yet published which these are), and four programmes of works on national secondaries (again, no details).

Chris_5339762

In reality, I reckon just about everything will be pushed out by several years to pay for COVID debt. A few per year might get through, cheap stuff, but I dunno about anything more. Will be interesting to see what gets through.

Cookiemunster

I actually think the some of the big ticket roads like the M20 and M28 will be OK because they're quite a few years from construction anyway and the M21 will be done to bypass Adare before the Ryder Cup in 2027.

marno21

More importantly, I should have also included the schemes which were considered for inclusion in the last plan but ultimately omitted:

M1 Balbriggan-Lissenhall

N2 Ashbourne-Slane

N2 Slane-Collon

N3 Cavan South-Belturbet

M4 Maynooth-Kilcock

N5 Turlough-Bohola

M7 Monasterevin-Newbridge

N13 Letterkenny-Stranorlar

N13 Manorcunningham-Bridgend

N15 Sligo-Cliffony

N17 Tuam-Claremorris

N21 Abbeyfeale-Rathkeale

N22 UCC-Carrigrohane

N22 Macroom-Ovens

N24 Limerick-Caherconlish

N25 Waterford-Dungarvan

N25 Midleton-Youghal

N26 Ballina-Bohola

N27 Cork Airport-N40

Pete_Cavan

Of the above list not included in the previous NDP, I would say very little of it is worthy of inclusion now. N22 Macroom-Ovens, N21 Abbeyfeale-Rathkeale and N5 Turlough-Bohola (which I assume would be a relatively cheap mix of online upgrade and offline sections) should certainly be added but everything else can wait.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931579#Comment_117931579

Abbeyfeale to Rathkeale has been superceded by the two bypass schemes for Abbeyfeale and Newcastlewest.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931784#Comment_117931784

It was mainly to focus on the parts that aren’t being included in those 2, namely Coolanoran to the M21 and Barnagh to Mountmahon. Depends on how those 2 bypass schemes work out.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931579#Comment_117931579

Put the two N25 schemes in there please!!!

A lot of future schemes will likely just involve realignments of bad bends, widening of carriageways etc, e.g. rather than a whole realignment of the N26, it will likely just be widened a few extra kilometres south of Ballina, plus the orbital bypass of the town, maybe remove some bad bends north of Foxford, and that'll be it. I do think we're reaching a point where laying more tarmac is harder to justify.

I think the following projects are essential & need to progress now rather than languishing in planning:

N17 through Sligo, M20, M21, Slane bypass, Castlemartyr & Killeagh bypasses, Donegal N13/14/15 triangle, N24 (at the very least, realignment of Tipp to Cahir and full bypass of Tipperary Town, bypasses of Carrick-On-Shannon, Galway, Thurles (I don't know how it has been overlooked for so long), Ballina and Virginia.

Anything that's nearing the end of the planning stages or at tender is de facto past all the legal hurdles so they'll go ahead.

I think the focus for the future should transition to low risk, high impact improvements at specific points such as the bypasses I mentioned above and others on say the N71 and N52, realigning bad stretches such as what's happening on the N86 and N60, perhaps schemes long mothballed such as a bypass of Crossmolina, rather than the EIA nightmare that would be a larger upgrade of the N59 there, as examples. Simple measures such as adding more turning filter lanes would do wonders to improve safety and efficiency on these national secondary routes.

I just cant see any justification for some of the proposed projects in the old plan. Another upgrade of the M7 from Newbridge to Monasterevin? Bonkers. Provide more trains along that route. Even the M4 to Longford, although I'd directly benefit from using it, in the greater scheme of things it's not a chronically bad route and again, simply adding a wider hard shoulder, filter lanes and minor improvements would drastically improve it.

There are a number of projects in Munster in particular that really need to accelerate now but I think it's past time to get serious about a national modal shift from cars, provide cycling and walking infrastructure and make public transport, urban and intercity rail actually work in Ireland based on European norms.

neiljung

What was the proposal for N22 UCC-Carrigrohane about?

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946278#Comment_117946278

The sections of road in that list are stretches of the existing network that fit the profile for improvement. My guess there is that the replacement for that stretch would be the N40 North Ring Road West, the UCC-Carrigrohane section being heavily trafficed by traffic from that part of the city heading to the N20.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0928/1249561-planning-review/

The penny has finally dropped.

marno21

New NDP being published Monday in Cork.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952424#Comment_117952424

It's about time!

marno21

Typical Green Party bullshit. This country stopped building bypasses in the 00s because they are a waste of time and do little for long distance traffic as traffic gets snarled up at the roundabouts on either end instead which become development magnets. Strong bang of ideological nonsense that they are famous for in this one.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ryans-bypasses-will-breathe-life-into-towns-but-theyre-taking-a-toll-on-motorway-plans-40899060.html

Aontachtoir

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/talks-on-road-investment-see-national-development-plan-go-down-to-the-wire-1.4689040

Sounds like good news. New road projects, €165bn spend overall, and strong vocal pushback against attempts to cancel investment in roads.

From one senator (Lisa Chambers): “Roads are the only show in town for this particular part of the country. I think it’s premature to say we’re going to stop building roads. If the mode of transport is clean, roads aren’t the problem. The Greens’ roads argument needs to be reconsidered in the light of infrastructure deficiencies in the rest of Ireland.” Lots of talk from other politicians along these lines.

All politics, of course, but expectations are being deliberately raised. Looking forward to seeing what comes out on Monday.

roadmaster

Article today in the post the roads projects are the big winner havent got the physcial paper yet. Dose anyone know which projects i presume M20 is No.1

https://www.businesspost.ie/infrastructure/tensions-mount-as-government-parties-split-over-road-projects-in-eur165bn-ndp-099a3954

marno21

From what I can understand (I’ve read the article above but it pretty much reaffirms what was said in other papers yesterday - Eamon Ryan’s grand plan to rip up the roads plan and replace it with Mickey Mouse 90s style bypasses was the main point of contention this week and the other two Government parties won out):

* All projects in the previous NDP made it in

* It’s very likely that the additional 10 projects TII requested made it in

* The actual delivery of these projects is up in the air due to: the 2:1 ratio of PT:roads spending, stonewalling attempts by the Minister, reallocation of funds to active transport and something to do with the Minister being focused on solving the climate crisis by stopping road building in Ireland

Limerick74

more hurdles to clear https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/1003/1250453-national-development-plan/

Aontachtoir

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/many-road-projects-in-national-development-plan-may-never-be-completed-1.4690217

More politics. While the Dublin Metro and the various BusConnects projects should comfortably soak up billions of euro between them, generating plenty of spending room under the new 2:1 ratio, we will need to see plenty of ongoing political pressure to ensure the various long-needed roads projects are finally delivered, including forcing non-Green parties to commit to various road projects at the next election.

If the artificial 2:1 ratio prevents needed projects being delivered, it should be scrapped. Lives and prosperity come before arbitrary targets which are of little value when no other country is meeting them. Separately, if any road project is classified as "climate-negative", it should be confirmed that the assessment took into account that electric vehicles will soon be the standard way of driving. I imagine any Green-dictated policy won't have allowed that. Thinking that roads = carbon emissions is 20th century thinking, and cannot be allowed to influence planning in an era when EVs will soon be the default.

KrisW1001

The 2:1 ratio is fair - the bulk of the big road improvements are behind us (M20 is likely to be the last inter-urban motorway project): the remaining schemes will be in the €200~500 million range, not the €1 billion of M20. Meanwhile, we really need to spend on rail and bus. Limerick-Galway was a lesson in what happens if you do a cheapest-possible project: a rail line that’s slower than driving. The whole point of that link was that it would eventually continue to Sligo and even up to Northern Ireland, creating a western rail spine to link Cork, Limerick, Galway and Sligo. Basically, I wanted to see this rail line done properly for the same reason I want M20 to be built.

There’s a hidden positive to this ratio though - it actually eases the opposition to large road projects, because they will be matched by much larger public transport investments. Another good point is that it stops public transport and roads being seen as mutually exclusive options: roads aren’t “stealing” from public transport budgets. There are even quite a few road improvement projects that could be enabled by this funding rule: an urban distributor road, with cycleways, dedicated bus-lanes and new higher-frequency bus services will meet that 2:1 spend, and improve traffic conditions for people who genuinely have no other option but to use a private car.

Vicxas

Still no mention of the Navan Bypass, not sure if thats NDP level or County Council level

Hibernicis

RTE News had the following headline figures

The NDP will commit to €35bn in spending on transport up to 2030. This is likely to include €12bn for public transport, €6bn on roads, €4bn on walking and cycling infrastructure and €13bn on maintenance.

€6bn should ensure that a lot of road projects don’t get past the starting line.

touts

The Greens look to have successfully killed off almost all road projects. Yes there is a long list of roads but the government is being so non committal on what will actually be built we can take it that little or nothing will actually be built.

marno21

All I see in this NDP is all the projects from the last NDP with some additional layers of bureaucratic bullshit to slow them down. As if there wasn’t enough speed bumps.

touts

The Greens are on the News at One trumpeting a Limerick to Shannon Airport Rail link. One of the few motorway routes in Rural Ireland getting hundreds of million spent on a Rail alternative???

namloc1980

This is nothing other than a repackaging and reannouncement of the same projects that have been going on for years. Except this time it's even less clear what the timelines and budget being allocated to these are. Massively disappointing.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974365#Comment_117974365

Don't be getting your knickers in a twist, that's never going to be built. It didn't get past a CBA the last time it was mooted and it's just as unviable now. You also seem to be forgetting that very little of whats in the NDP will be anywhere near construction by the time of the next election. An election that is likely to wipe the Greens out again.

Screenshot_20211004_143641.jpg

This is a welcome addition to cross border connectivity & public transport & is unquestionably viable.

mydiscworld

Plan is here

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/774e2-national-development-plan-2021-2030/

Aontachtoir

Disappointing plan in the end. Nothing really new except the asterisk at the end of every project saying "may not actually be built."

It feels like the era of serious bold infrastructure investments of any kind in this country is long behind us, and what we have now is as good as it gets. It is hard to see many projects meeting the ever-higher barriers erected to oppose development in Ireland, and these barriers will presumably only continue to worsen in years to come. Even Green pet projects like the Metro have become effectively undeliverable.

It feels like the era of serious bold infrastructure investments of any kind in this country is long behind us, and what we have now is as good as it gets.

Only if you look at infrastructure investment as being all about roads.

This NDP is great news for walkers, cyclists and bus and rail users, which, arguably, there will be more and more of in the years to come as cars get squeezed out of the main cities

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976820#Comment_117976820

I think it is pretty clear from my post that I do not consider infrastructure investment to be all about roads, unless you think the Dublin Metro is a road project.

I would count infrastructure investment as projects which make people's lives easier, support Irish businesses and industries, and help to create jobs by moving people and goods ever faster to ever more places. Cities choking on ever-worsening traffic as scant road space is reduced even further doesn't seem to meet any of those criteria.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976855#Comment_117976855

I agree, something should be done to reduce the traffic further by diverting road space away from the most inefficient forms i.e. to the more sustainable and efficient modes to, as you stated "make people's lives easier, support Irish businesses and industries, and help to create jobs by moving people and goods ever faster to ever more places."

To that end, its fantastic to see such a massive level of investment redirected towards those modes

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974958#Comment_117974958

This has been promised as far back as I can remember.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977237#Comment_117977237

The difference being that the SDLP control the Department of Transport in the North and the Executive has committed to the Strategic Rail Review. With the DUP playing spoilt child over Brexit, that might well lead to delays/elections but at least the Enterprise is explicitly mentioned in some detail in this plan.

lawred2

There is quite literally no interest in actually delivering real public transport in Dublin

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977114#Comment_117977114

I don't know what modes you are thinking of. My point is that nothing is being built, so the current set-up will continue, and that isn't good for anyone. The same planning system that is stopping the Galway bypass and the Dublin Metro being delivered has also stopped changes as small as extra cycle lanes being delivered. Do you think BusConnects, Cork light rail, the DART expansion etc etc etc are just going to sail through the same process that doesn't allow a cycle lane to be built in Sandymount?

I know you oppose roads, and that's fine. I presume you do not drive and live in an urban area. But do you not see that if the road projects in the NDP aren't delivered, public transport projects probably won't be either? If nothing else, the 2:1 split works both ways.

Modes like walking, cycling, buses & trains.

Point of fact, the Dublin Metro hasn't started so is not being held up by planning but I take your point regarding the system. I agree there are issues there, but much of those issues are more due to resourcing than anything else. There are always going to be objections, appeals etc. The delays are due to the review of those objections and hearing of the appeals, all taking many years to complete due to lack of staff, that are the biggest delay for projects.

As for Sandymount, thats still with the courts so its not set in stone yet and additional legislation is coming to allow for trials to be completed much easier.

Also, I've absolutely nothing against roads, I think they're great and serve a purpose, where else are we going to put bus lanes, wider paths and protected bike lanes.

Just because I think the private car is a farce in terms of transport and the sooner we stop building infrastructure to cater for them the better our towns and cities will be. This does not mean I am against roads.....well maybe the Galway City Ring Road but just because thats the stupidest thing ever to be dreamt up (close to 1 billion to bypass a city you could cycle from end-to-end in 40 mins)

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977735#Comment_117977735

In fairness, when the Sandymount Cycling trial was thrown out by the Courts, you were fuming at the decision. The planning laws work both ways. What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

It will be even harder to get infrastructure built in Irish Urban areas than the M20 from Cork to Limerick to take one example. Good luck trying to create an urban transport revolution in the next 10 years if the planning laws and court system attached to it stays the same.

Ive only read the summaries on rte broken down by region

Has the west really been as fxcked over yet again as it seemed going on that, or was it just a shoddy report from Teresa?

Chris_5339762

Basically nothing new roads-wise was announced. I had heard on here the government were looking to add about 10 other projects, but the list published in the NDP document is basically a copy/paste from TIIs website.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117978573#Comment_117978573

TII requested a further 10 projects be added, and four projects to improve the national secondary network.

I can only imagine that list took up residence in Eamon Ryan’s shredder.

Will minor schemes and realignments be affected by this new plan, say the N16 in Sligo or the N61 realignment from Tulsk to Clashaganny?

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117978812#Comment_117978812

Not specifically, but down the road if major projects get bogged down in the planning system or indeed the bullshit tests these projects have to pass in the new plan the smaller projects will have more funding available to them.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979851#Comment_117979851

The tests/planning pitfalls would surely sink most smaller projects too. Making it easier for someone to drive from A to B seems to be an unacceptable outcome for future infrastructure projects in this country.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117979917#Comment_117979917

Avoiding people getting to B in the back of a hearse is a major component of these smaller projects though which heavily benefits the outcome of these analyses

Éamon Ryan is very keen for bypasses so strategically, I think county councils should plan with this in mind. This would cover many minor schemes too. This should also be exploited for counties/regions with no rail access. This covers the N13-14 in Donegal, for example. Adare, Virginia, Slane also safe.

This plan will be reviewed and amended within 5 years once there's a new government, so I'm not getting too upset about it. It would be great to see progress on public transport at long last.

KrisW1001

It might help to understand the argument being put forward by the Greens, which is fairly simple: large construction projects of any kind, produce a lot of CO2 emissions, but these can sometimes be discounted because they will result in lower emissions in other parts of the economy. Where a project costs a lot of emissions to build, and then encourages activities that also create emissions, then it be penalised in the ratings.

This doesn’t mean that “all roads are bad”. Quite a lot of road-building is needed to enable more environmentally-friendly transport. It’s not a good look for the Green Party leader to say this, but it’s buried in the documents. (The NDP document also admits that some projects that may be bad if primarily used by combustion-powered cars would become carbon-neutral as drivers shift to EVs powered by renewable energy)

Performing a realignment of a rural route is going to score well, because it will actually reduce the emissions from traffic that is already using the route, and in a low population area there’s little risk of induced demand. I think N16 would fall into this category (especially as the emerging preferred route would result in a de-trunking of part of N16 in Sligo itself)

Building urban distributor roads with dedicated bus lanes and segregated cycleways is also not penalised, because this kind of construction allows more efficient mass transportation and a higher takeup of cycling, and if you have no option but to use a car, it makes things better for you too.

Replacing a national road that enters many town/village centres with a modest (2+2) dual carriageway is less positive, but it does improve quality of life for those places bypassed, and it facilitates more energy-efficient transportation (trucks waste a lot of fuel when they’re crawling through town centres), and it does not have a much greater CO2 cost than a singe-carriageway option. Given that most of these projects have strong safety and town-bypass grounds behind them, I think they will be safe.

Motorways are where things get harder to approve, because it’s getting very hard to find a route that still requires a motorway (Type 1 DC) to be built along it. We’ve already done the major arterials that needed it (M1, M7, M8, M6), plus the ones that were marginal (M11,M18), and even a couple that should never have been built as motorways at all (M3 Kells, M9, M17). The only candidate left is N20. Every other long-distance route that needs capacity upgrade can be accommodated as a 2+2, even looking ahead for decades.

The last category of projects, capacity upgrades on urban approaches, is pretty much f___d. These were on shaky environmental grounds anyway, and were usually proceeded because they’re actually the cheapest option. The better option, mass transit, is much more expensive (a 20 km Metro, mostly overground, is five times the cost of a 90 km motorway between Cork and Limerick), but it has a much better payback. I expect these to be scaled back, with money diverted into improved bus systems.

roadmaster

The first trouble over Roads has started with a Cork TD threating to quit FF. I can see this gathering traction outside of the GDA. Alot of people feel they are being left behind

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/1006/1251089-politics-td/

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117983323#Comment_117983323

It’ll be interesting if this was one of the ten projects TII recommended for inclusion but wasn’t included at the behest of the anti car party.