Time to abolish outdated car tax system(s)

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117914462#Comment_117914462

I agree simple and the method of collection is there already. It really is a no brainer.

Pomodoro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117914508#Comment_117914508

Can't post links, but a quick google will show you that there is a huge amount of car use in Ireland for journeys that are under 2km. Pre lockdown I had several colleagues who drove less than 2-3km to work in horrendous industrial estate traffic.

Anyway, My reply addressed your ridiculous assertion that people who don't drive a car much, but still need it for longer journeys / carrying bulky stuff, should look at their "life choices", with an equally ridiculous assertion about high mileage drivers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915902#Comment_117915902

Hence the bit below where I say it's not that simple. The world would be a much greener place if people only drove when there was no good alternative. It would also help if people tried to live closer to the towns/villages/schools that they depend on.

AlfaZen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117914214#Comment_117914214

If you factor in the tax on fuel you payed for your 600km about its €740 in total. Someone with a new diesel doing 50,000km would have payed about €2,750 tax in total.

Polluter does pay.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916062#Comment_117916062

Not really. They pay to some extent but to the level required. I've no doubt that change is coming as our current way of life is a threat to our long term existence.

kaahooters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915902#Comment_117915902

well, you dont have to do any of that.

covid has proven that you cna have your shopping delivered, school and work can be both remotley done, and you can buy an ev for getting about powered by solar panels on your roof.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916061#Comment_117916061

How close would you suggest? Is 10 km too far!

Pomodoro

If you feel you have no alternative to driving to get anywhere, it’s too far.

10km is <30 mins on a bike or ebike

.42.

Motor tax doesn’t make sense. It’s lumped in to the all for one pot instead of paying for transport infrastructure.

Buddy Bubs

OK, my turn.

My employer has very kindly furnished me with a fuel card these last few years so I don't actually pay for my fuel at all. However, I bought the car and I pay my own motor tax

With this in mind I suggest abolishing motor tax and vrt and loading it onto fuel at the pumps. 3 euro a litre sounds right. Let me pay less and others pay more.

That's exact same as others have put here, change the tax structure so they pay less and others pay more. Even if they don't always admit it.

mickuhaha

They should change the NCT system to every year for all cars of all ages. This should get people keeping an eye on their cars more. More revenue for NCT and more tax for the government. Will also help keep milage fraud at a minimum.

AlfaZen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916251#Comment_117916251

how do you bring home the weekly shopping on an ebike in the rain and wind?

Unfortunately for a lot of people the car is a necessity. And there are a lot of people who would love to move to EVs but simply can't afford to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117914168#Comment_117914168

Whats road tax?

Pomodoro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917052#Comment_117917052

If its just the one car journey per week with for the big shop, thats good going!

Re: wind and rain - this isn't the outer hebrides! For most of the year, the climate in Ireland is excellent for cycling.

But look, I only weighed in here because the comment about how people who only rarely use there car should for some reason get rid of it and look for other options. I am personally in that position where I cycle as much as possible and drive when thats not practical. But I chose where I live (and a smaller/dated house) to fit that lifestyle as well.

There's plenty of unavoidable reasons why some people need to drive more - be it age/infirmity, affordability of housing or whatever else.

But there are so many who drive when there is no need, for short journeys, causing congestion, pollution and wear and tear on the road system. In particular I feel bad for people with no option but to drive, being held up by a load of people who could easily have chosen another transport mode.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917133#Comment_117917133

Same, I dumped mine last year after several months of looking at it sitting not being used. Saved myself a fortune and just bought a place that is served by multiple bus routes, access to a train station etc.

Its just a different way of living, and I have to be honest, a lot more pleasant one

To your point about forced ownership of cars, our one-off housing addiction is a major problem there. I owned one of those houses for several years and if I wanted to do anything, even get a pint of milk, I had to fire up the ton and a half motor. An utterly farcical way to live.

As for taxation, I know several countries are grappling with this very topic at the moment. Some, like parts of Australia and possibly soon in the UK, are looking at "annual miles travelled" and basing the tax on that, others are looking at a combination of that + weight and calculating the tax from that.

Either way, the tax will change. When it does, EV's will be brought into the net, ICE's are going to be hit hard and PHEV's are going to take a serious wallop too, likely being classed as ICE's to dissuade potential purchasers.

saabsaab

'"annual miles travelled" and basing the tax on that, others are looking at a combination of that + weight and calculating the tax from that.'

True these are being looked at but those methods are needlessly complicating matters. The more you drive the bigger the engine plus weight the more fuel you use, simple.

SCOOP 64

So seems all the country folk will have to move to towns then if its done on mileage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917503#Comment_117917503

Would definitely take the shine off those one-off houses

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916251#Comment_117916251

Pop the kids on the handlebars,go back to sleep Eamonn.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917464#Comment_117917464

Complicated? lol, you being serious?

Weight - one number, likely determined based on model, same as engine size, pretty easy to get and most likely uploaded to the tax system upon registration

Mileage - apart from the first year where you'd have to enter the starting figure and end figure, after that you'd just need to input the end of year figure each year

As for fuel, that doesn't work for BEV, hence the need to change

Unless you meant something else, your last sentence makes little sense so I may have misunderstood

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916251#Comment_117916251

Try that with a weeks shopping for a family and let's know how you get on😁

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917528#Comment_117917528

Fossil fuel powered (generated from) could be taxed on the units used. I meant that the heavier the vehicle and the more you use it the more fuel you burn so why not put it on the fuel.

dublin49

longer term when thev tax from fossil fuels disappear the car tax in whatever form is going to have to make up the slack,I would imagine technology will allow pay as you use but be in no doubt the current Excise Tax hole will be filled with a form of motor tax.

You're not allowed have a nice or interesting car in this country. You're expected to have a boring **** box like everyone else. I miss my 2.3 petrol Saab 9-5 aero. But €1000 a year to tax it killed me.

Compare that to a 4.5 litre Ford Falcon I had in New Zealand. $84 to Rego for the year and $100 for 3rd party insurance.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916251#Comment_117916251

It’s about 3 minutes on the M50...

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917590#Comment_117917590

I’m moving away from a 9-3. Would keep it only I’ve nowhere to store it.

Pomodoro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917545#Comment_117917545

Cargo bike will do that no problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917552#Comment_117917552

There is already a buttload of tax on fuel and again, it would not do anything re: EV's

Akrasia

motor tax is a big revenue stream at the moment, but maybe we need to change that. Why should we be taxing citizens for getting to and from work, visiting family, bringing kids to school etc

maybe we need to keep motor tax on ICE vehicles but keep BEVs motor tax free, and shift our tax burden to alternative sources. Bigger taxes on excessive consumption, speculation, rent seeking and wealth taxes

Kramer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917903#Comment_117917903

Too complicated.

Far easier to hit "the old reliables", motor tax, fuel, alcohol etc. Easy target & now even easier as it's not a tax but a measure to save the planet (oh, & the kids - "won't somebody think of the children!").

This thread is gas - a motoring forum with people dreaming up more creative & effective ways for the government to screw them. Well, not them, others. As in, other motorists. Others should pay more, as long as I pay less.

A kind of new nimbyism!

mickuhaha

Experiencing new places, culture's and people by traveling can break down personal biases, educate and improve physical and mental health. By restricting the travel of the people of Ireland to public transport or cycling you make them more narrow minded. You can think of all the places not served by public transport in Ireland. We need cheap travel in whatever form it can be on this island or alot of children will grow up in their small town or city never getting the chance to experience an important part of life here.