Something needs to be done about the conspiracy theories forum

Either revert the charter to what it was before it was changed by Overheal a couple of years ago or close it down..

Every single thread just descends into the same 5 posters sneering at anyone wanting to discuss the topic or practically shouting questions repeatedly at people..

Apparently the charter was changed with no consultation a couple of years ago?..

It seems like only certain opinions are allowed..

The same thing happens in CA to an extent, but at this stage you might as well close the CT forum down..

TrueDub

"It seems like only certain opinions are allowed.."

That's exactly what they WANT you to think!!!!

Cookie_Monster

What opinions?

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058209280/something-needs-to-be-done-about-the-conspiracy-theories-forum

Translation: "People challenge my opinions and I can't handle it, much less answer the challenges. Please sir may I have a safe space?"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117905860#Comment_117905860

Just that there might possibly be any validity to any conspiracy theory at all..

Seriously, every single thread just descends into the same five posters sneering at people, after harassing whoever started the thread with repeated questions until they give up and leave..There's no acknowledgment of anything said..

Like, whatever, maybe it's just a testament to how people have become so polarized on the internet..But it was suggested in another thread that it was a consequence of this change to the charter..It should be reviewed..

Cookie_Monster

So you want any challenge to any CT just shut down and banned? That's what it sounds like to me.

What is wrong with people challenging the topic? I get the nature of the forum is a bit out there but if ct-ers can't robustly defend their ct from legitimate challenge what's the point of the forum?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117905981#Comment_117905981

But its not posters making "legitimate challenges". Its a very ugly and unwelcoming forum. Post up a conspiracy theory and within 5 posts you'll get snide remarks from posters. Might as well rename the forum as troll central.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058209280/something-needs-to-be-done-about-the-conspiracy-theories-forum

So you are looking for some sort of safe haven for CT? I don't think it's wise idea imo.

I'm asking for the change in charter to be reviewed or suggesting the forum be closed..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906101#Comment_117906101

And I agree.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117905902#Comment_117905902

"after harassing whoever started the thread with repeated questions"

So if someone opens a thread and makes a claim your basically saying that the ops claims shouldn't be questioned?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906101#Comment_117906101

What changes would you like to see?

CT won't be closed down because if they did that then you would just get Conspiracy theorists posting shìte all over the place, CT forum is the place to keep them.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117905981#Comment_117905981

The OP is very correct on this one though. The forum makes for painful reading, because invariably threads very quickly get shot down by a certain poster or two shouting for "evidence!".

Gone are the days where it might make for interesting reading, where people could discuss a particular theory, it's merits, it's failings, sometimes whacky, sometimes eyebrow raising, and so forth. None of that seems welcome anymore, unless there's "evidence!". Naturally, evidence is not very often clear with these things, because, well, they're theories.

The forum needs to allow for a bit of breathing room for discussion. Not every theory has direct evidence, and when shouting for it the whole time, it saps the fun and intrigue out of every single thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907214#Comment_117907214

Or if questions are allowed, would it be acceptable for people to ignore questions?

What questions would be acceptable and which would not be?

Would it be acceptable for people to dump a link to some bitchute video or link to some conspiracy blog, declare it's all true, then vanish from the thread completely?

What if someone posts something that is factually wrong and is shown to be so. Are people just supposed to not mention that and continue as if the false claim is true?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907217#Comment_117907217

Not every theory has evidence, yet we have posters making claims as if they are fact.

If I said Mary McAleese was actually not Irish and was born in Zimbabwe would you not ask for evidence for my claim?

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907222#Comment_117907222

You're always going to get whacky stuff, but it's a problem where a thread is posted with a potentially interesting theory that could have a good discussion, and it's just immediately shot down citing "evidence!".

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907232#Comment_117907232

So CT charter should say "no questioning of the op"?

Thats not a discussion that's just a safe space for people to make idiotic claims.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907217#Comment_117907217

This is a mischaractisation.

Evidence is not proof. You can provide evidence for something even if you don't have proof.

If someone is making a statement of fact, such as "X amount of people died" why is it unreasonable to ask for something to back up a claim like that?

What's wrong with answering "I don't have anything to back up that claim"?

But most of time, people aren't asking for evidence. People are asking "what do you believe?" and "why do you believe it?" Or "how do you address this contradiction that I can see?" None of that requires evidence or proof.

Wouldn't these questions allow for the discussion you believe would be fun and intriguing? Is there anything unreasonable about asking those questions?

Is it reasonable for people to just ignore those questions?

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907238#Comment_117907238

Call it whatever you want, it makes for dire reading in its current guise, and smothers any potential discussion. I'm with the OP on this one, a bit more breathing room for theories would be nice....if there was always direct evidence for this stuff, they wouldn't just be theories.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907232#Comment_117907232

As you know well we aren't living in a world of theory anymore. It's now a world where false is fact. The internet and the walk about life have wrapped and morphed into some hateful disgusting hybrid child. The notion that conspiracy theories are some lovelable chatty joy discussion is gone maybe five years ago.

It's sad but it's the reality. We had people dragging someone sick out of a hospital in this very country last week.

.I mean ...... Wtf

storker

@Timberrrrrrrr "Not every theory has evidence, yet we have posters making claims as if they are fact."

This.

And dismissing sceptics as government shills, "sheeple", etc.

And this is without even getting into the area of dishonesty, whether by design or incompetence.

sydthebeat

If posters want to spout theories without challenge then perhaps the forum should be moved to "fictional writing" part of the site.

They problem with the Majority of these conspiracy theorist posts is they often cannot even verbalise what the actual conspiracy is?

They see black and white and call it blue, but when asked why would it be blue, they are incapable of answering. Plenty of examples of posters telling lies and posting as fact there.

The forum is absolutely full of posters who sea gull in with click bait nonsense that they believe is some kind of "eureka" moment, but when clearly shown to be lies, and challenged on it, they disappear with no acknowledgement whatsoever until their next sea gull droppings.

So if they want a forum where they can theorise unchallenged, let the forum reflect that it's fictional or hypothetical musings going on, and nothing based on actual verifiable fact.

growleaves

The OP has been proven correct, as the same posters who try to strangle discussion in the CT forum have swarmed into this Feedback thread as well to provide counter-Feedback.

It is impossible to discuss a theory if every thought or supposition has to be made explicit and evidenced every step of the way and intuitive leaps are shouted down. This is a kind of ultrapositivism.

The posters who purposely disrupt every thread should be banned or the forum should be closed down because, as it is, it is only a time-waste.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058209280/something-needs-to-be-done-about-the-conspiracy-theories-forum

The charter you are referring to was a temporary charter change (and was unpopular). The key difference was that it generally allowed conspiracy theorists to post conspiracies without evidence, which turned the forum into an echo chamber and safe space, and that includes the more extreme stuff (anti-vaccination stuff, dangerous medical disinformation, antisemitic conspiracies, Holocaust denial, etc), which can't be challenged.

It's a public forum, and when people are using it to e.g. revise history, contradict medical science, attack vaccines, deny events like the pandemic, then it's only normal that people are allowed to challenge those views. Friction occurs because those who are posting the "conspiracy theories" are generally seeking validation, and do not like having their views questioned. The mods are active and generally deal with rules breaches like any other forum.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907232#Comment_117907232

The starting point should be "what is the conspiracy theory"

A lot of threads there fail to even manage that.

"The great reset" thread is a prime example

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907266#Comment_117907266

There's no such thing as "counter-Feedback", dude. It's all just feedback.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907249#Comment_117907249

But therein lies the problem, its not that there's no "direct evidence" its the fact there's no evidence at all!

As I said, if I claimed McAleese was born in Zimbabwe, should I not be questioned for making that statement?

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907271#Comment_117907271

I agree. As @growleaves mentions above though, it's a total time sink to participate in the forum with the way it works right now. So who'd bother?

Ideally there'd be a middle ground where a theory can be posted with some source info, discussed, tested, etc, without it feeling like a military interrogation.

sydthebeat

Oh, and just to stress this point.

Conspiracy theories are no longer a form of entrainment.

We've seen with the capitol Hill insurrection that unchallenged conspiracy theories can lead to very very serious results and events. We've seen the damage that racists and homophobes like Gemma O Doherty can cause with their dangerous conspiracy theory views.

When conspiracy theories are focused on "those in power are out to get you" (chem trails, great reset, 9/11 was an inside job etc) then there's a very real chance that some gullible or mentally damaged person will do something stupid citing these theories. We've seen this happen many times.

There is no way these posts can no unchallenged based on a "Shure what harm" basis. They are dangerous, and they they should be challenged each and every time.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907289#Comment_117907289

Can that crap not just be ignored then? And allowed to fall into the ether? Why entertain it at all?

seamus

Conspiracy theories and theorists have moved from just being paranoid loners in basements in the 1980s to being entire communities of extremists radicalizing eachother through disinformation and hate. It's no longer a crazy but harmless past time, these people pose very real dangers to society.

Boards should not be complicit in this. The purpose of the forum is to discuss conspiracy theories as a cultural phenomenon, not a place for people to fester conspiracies without challenge. There are plenty of echo chambers online to go hide in if that's what someone wants.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907266#Comment_117907266

"have swarmed into this Feedback thread as well to provide counter-Feedback."

So now, not only should questions not be asked of conspiracy theorists, but you don't even want feedback given?

Your answer is to ban anyone who questions a CT or cancel the forum?

"The posters who purposely disrupt every thread should be banned or the forum should be closed down because, as it is, it is only a time-waste."

How about just not reading the forum if it upsets you so much?

Fighting Tao

There are apps and other social media that conspiracy theorists use for their echo chamber. As Boards has a much bigger audience, then it is only right that challenges can be made to posts rather than allow the free spread of misinformation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907292#Comment_117907292

Yes. By asking questions like "why do you believe this" or "what do you believe".

By asking people: "how do you explain this contradiction I see in the theory?"

By conspiracy theorists perhaps answering with "I don't know" rather than ignoring.

Also, if you guys believe that the forum is useless and just a time sink, why deny access to it by others who disagree? No one is forcing anyone to post there and there's tons of places on line where conspiracy theories can be discussed without any critical questions applied to them.

Beasty

Moved from Feedback

Forum specific issues are dealt with in Help Desk

OP, can you please be explicit about what changes you are seeking here. Edits made prior to the platform changeover are no longer visible and I certainly have no idea what changes were made "a couple of years ago"

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907292#Comment_117907292

Well maybe there some be some template then for each new theory when posted.

Something like :

What is the theory.

Why does the poster believe it.

Who benefits from the theory.

Who is at a detriment because of it.

Simple enough no?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907271#Comment_117907271

I absolutely refused to be interrogated with patronising insults interspersed with demands for summaries etc.

In effect a group of posters act as if they are in a kind of Master of Ceremonies role - acting as a host and moderator of each thread.

In an organic discussion, if one were allowed to take place, a picture would form after a while.

I was asked for a summary of the entire 200-page book [The Great Reset]. When I said I was happy to discuss individual chapters, the poster admitted they hadn't read it.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907302#Comment_117907302

100%

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907303#Comment_117907303

I don't read it (anymore).

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907307#Comment_117907307

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would have no issues with any of that. Maybe I'm just out of the loop these days, and posters are right that people have taken it from what used to be interesting reading, to now using it to power all sorts of agendas and crusades.

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907251#Comment_117907251

And that person is back in hospital if you're referring to the incident in letterkenny hospital.

Example of just how dangerous some conspiracy theories can be.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907320#Comment_117907320

Great. So those kind of questions are acceptable to you.

Those are the questions we most often ask, yet it's been misrepresented in this form and by yourself in particular.

Now, if someone made a false claim like "X amount of people died" is it acceptable to ask for evidence that this amount of people died?

If not, what is acceptable response to this false claim?

Because would be a lot of complaints about people "just saying everything is false" if we have to just state the claim is false and post counter evidence.

Should we just ignoring it and pretend that it's true because the OP has declared it so?

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907292#Comment_117907292

You may have a point, but a good starting place would be for those supporting or putting forward their own theories acknowledge clearly that they are simply exploring the possibilities or engaging in a thought experiment. I can't remember seeing a conspiracy theory put forward in such a way.

Kumejima

Its also completely ridiculous to shout Evidence! for every single thing. "Oh, so you believe a top level secret conspiracy is trying to cull the world's population? Well, where's the evidence? Sources please"

"Yeah I just happened to download the agenda of their last meeting from their website. See Item 4 - Reducing the World's population by 90% through the covert use of Vaccines by way of a mass media propaganda drive to brainwash the population". Item 5 Christmas Party Planning

If a random Jew in 1930s Germany was getting very nervous about how things were shaping up, observing "This Hitler guy has it in for us Jews, I'm telling you!" these lads would want a handwritten memo from Hitler with detailed instructions and even then would say "it's not proof he will kill the Jews, just that he's entertaining the possibility, You'd want to be a lunatic to think it would ever get that far"

The whole pount about a conspiracy theories forum is that there should be at least a little good faith in the participants. Seeing as how certain views or opinions are banned from "serious" threads, why shouldn't the usual suspects be told to feck off back to Current Affairs or wherever, where they can peddle their Sourced and science based "facts".

I don't look into it that often, but it amazes me that every 4 months or so I go back and King Mob or Timberrr or whoever is there yet again, playing whack a mole with teh thread. "Do you have evidence for this, other than some random Youtube video?", etc, ad nauseum. It amazes me how invested they are in shutting down any discussion and the dismissive tone that inevitably accompanies it.

Whenever I read their 20 daily posts I always envision King Mob as like the fat World of Warcraft guy from Southpark. "How can you kill that which has no life?"

Somebody is going to need to Randy Marsh this **** or it could be the end of the World of the Conspiracy Theeories Thread

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907303#Comment_117907303

No, you've got it wrong. Feedback is OK, it's just feedback about the feedback that's bad. 😀

growleaves

Several posters are saying that conspiracy theories are now serious business and dangerous.

That may be true but to me that is just an argument for closing the forum rather than allowing all discussion to be choked by (deniable) trolling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907333#Comment_117907333

Or if they are asked for evidence for specific claim, just say that they don't have evidence.

Or if they are asked what they believe and don't have a complete and total answer, just state that.

Or if they are asked why they believe something, why not just say what the reason it?

Or if they are asked about a problem that arises in the theory, why not just say: "Yea, that's a problem I can't explain and a good reason not to accept the conspiracy theory."?

I think the reason we don't here these kinds of answers is that most people who believe and post about conspiracy theories aren't doing it to find out the truth, and they don't want to admit they're just writing fantasy.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907317#Comment_117907317

So what's your issue?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907332#Comment_117907332

This claim was actually made recently

"Now, if someone made a false claim like "X amount of people died" is it acceptable to ask for evidence that this amount of people died?"

When it was pointed out that 12 people died and not the 1000 that was claimed the poster just disappeared, are the people asking for a change not happy that this false claim was questioned?

Sonics2k

I rarely post in the CT forum, but I enjoy reading it. However it seems the problem here is that people have an issue with counter-debate or any form of questioning and discussion.

Ironically, people who enjoy Conspiracies are often heard to say things like "Question everything.", but it what they actually mean is "Question everything, unless it's something I'm saying."

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907332#Comment_117907332

My intentions are never to misrepresent, I'm simply echoing the experiences of others here, who find the CT forum harsh, unfriendly, cold, and a place where the likes of yourself revel in flexing your ego by shooting down good hearted posters who probably wandered in wanting to talk about a theory (not those who have ulterior motives, do what you wish to those.)

I stopped reading the forum a few years back, but that was my lasting impression. Any time I find myself back in it by seeing an interesting thread title on the homepage, I see it hasn't changed a bit. It's no longer an entertaining discussion forum, it's like a day's work reading anything in it.

As I said, it's a shame it can't be more balanced to allow for some growth, seeing you tirelessly question every user about minute details is like watching paint drying.