Castration/banding

crackcrack30

Has banding taken off for weanings in many parts of the country? Just saw a clip of the california bander... looks easy.

Some believe banding dosen't knock them back as hard as squeezing....

I think a tetnus has to be given with same..... Can a bottle of tetnus be bought?

Any experiences good and bad..

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.zoetis.ie/products/dairy-cattle/vaccines/covexin-10.aspx

2 ml SC followed by booster 2ml SC 4-6 wks later

mr.stonewall

Did it before with yearlings, in late February, well vet did at a herd test. Worked well and was adamant to give a booster for tetanus, despite being done twice as calves. So vaccinated them as he was doing. Takes a good 6-8 weeks for all the dangling bits to fall off. Better to have them going to grass or on grass for 2 months.

Now band Suckler calves before 3 days with a lambing ring, better job as there is no set back at all, much much safer and easier to band when a few days old

mayota

Done 30 here late January. They got Tribovax the week before and again 5 weeks later. Not a bother on them. Won’t go back to burdizzo. (February/March cattle)

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850029#Comment_117850029

Like with Covid the first vaccine gives poor protection so don't castrate until after the second one

crackcrack30

Thanks guys ...What make/ shape bander are ye using for the 6-12mts olds?

Count Mondego

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850573#Comment_117850573

We're they in the shed? Any issues with them lying on slats after getting banded?

mayota

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853257#Comment_117853257

No problems at all. They lied down a lot the first day is all.

mr.stonewall

Never any problem In the first 2-3 weeks. The key time to keep clean is the final 4-8 weeks as the dangling bits fall off. You have a wound that is slowly healing and cutting at the same time. This period I feel needs to be outside either spring or autumn. Maybe @greysides might be able to shed more light on it

greysides

I usually cut or squeeze depending on age/size. A few years ago I looked into buying a calicrate bander. The pros seemed good: less acute and chronic pain, less/no set-back, etc. Only declared concern was to have vaccinated for Tetanus/Blackleg beforehand.

I made enquiries from some neighbouring vets. One practice had used one but did no longer. They had to return frequently to farms to tidy up when things didn't go completely to plan.

Recently I was shown a clever variation. A strong wire frame is held in one hand and used to hold one end of a band while the hand holds into the sac. The other pulls the free end of the band around the sac and back to the frame where the two ends of the now-tight band are joined together.

I saw some animals done with this recently. I think they were done too big as I've heard of this method working fine. Some of the, smaller, bulls were responding as expected: sac was withering and close to falling off. Some of the, generally larger, bulls had problems. In some it was obvious the band had rolled down and was ligating lower down having done damage above. In others, the band had burst after some time leaving a large, hard, swollen area trying to heal. There was no way I could see to remedy this except leave it to its own devices, and the bulls some form of entire. There was some smell as they passed by!

That's my knowledge of the subject. I'm sticking to my old methods.

Banding young calves seems to be a good idea, with good reports coming from those who have done it.

RobinBanks

I normally sell my bull weanlings in autumn but this year i have decided to keep them. It will be the first time i will have bulls for winter and I would prefer to castrate them before i wean them. They are all Feb&Mar born calves. Are they too old or strong to casatrate using the burdizo clams. The neighbour has one and could do it for me.

hopeso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871491#Comment_117871491

They should be alright to do with the clams, but like everything else, a lot will depend on how good he is at using it. As you say, do it now before you wean them and give them a chance to recover with the cow. Keep an eye on them over the winter. If any of them did hold onto a ball they'd need to be castrated in the spring....

RobinBanks

Another question on castration. If you had an E-grade weanling bull would you castrate and keep as bullock, sell now as a bull weanling in mart or keep and slaughter under 16 month as bull

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962296#Comment_117962296

Sell now as a bull weanling I reckon. What breed and weight is he?

RobinBanks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963428#Comment_117963428

Ch around 400kg. I'm keep all the bull weanlings now, changing system here to keep bullocks. Just wondering about this fella what might be the best thing to do

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964601#Comment_117964601

At current prices the mart might be best.

Are you going to keep less cows from now on?

RobinBanks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964704#Comment_117964704

Yes. Just 1 pin of cows and will buy in weanlings. Will keep the best cows that are producing the best char calves. Working off farm and young family, it's hard going with all cows and calves. Might change back again in few years

funkey_monkey

Does anyone here use the Henderson Emasculator?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965068#Comment_117965068

I would say that is vet only you need to apply an epidural ideally

https://youtu.be/_w4onjF_Mu0

IMO if animals are older a budizzer is best. Eldest lad has done them up above 450 kgs.

funkey_monkey

Vet always does them here.

crackcrack30

I felt a bit knobbled myself after that video....

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117969165#Comment_117969165

Was it knobbled or twisted, I am after coming home from the pub and I am slightly twisted

893bet

Whatever age or size they are it’s the lad on the tail that is the most important.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117969480#Comment_117969480

You're lucky that you don't have to milk in the mornings, Bass!

Jim Simmental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117969787#Comment_117969787

Any one use the rubber rings for removing the tails on lambs on bull calves a few days old - would certainly be a lot safer doing them at 2 to 3 days old.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117969932#Comment_117969932

Luck has nothing to do with that

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972607#Comment_117972607

Yep doing it here for the past 2 years. No set back on the calves and way easier. Do them at 1-2 days old when tagging. Will keep doing it. Late spring calving here, so they are going outdoors quickly or calved outdoors. Only suits if selling as stores or keeping to beef

On a safety aspect it's a no brainer, and on the cost front is as cheap as chips, no pain relief needed and no loss of thrive. Going to keep doing for the coming years

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975484#Comment_117975484

Plus one on that. I do them up to 7 days old. Tag dehorning and banding done together at average of 5 days. Great job and a lot easier on man and beast

hopeso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975484#Comment_117975484

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976595#Comment_117976595

I'm considering using this method.... Is there any difficulty making sure both balls are down before fitting the band? Also, would ye aim to place the band as high or as low as possible?

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976778#Comment_117976778

most are grand for doing but you’ll meet the odd one that’s difficult to get both balls down. Like anything you’ll get better with practice and experience. Most important thing is to make sure both balls are down.

there isn’t much space left once you get ring on above the balls so you end up with the ring a half an inch/ maybe an inch above the balls.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976778#Comment_117976778

Take a bit of practice and just make sure to count the balls when done. First turn or two is a bit tricky until you get the hang of it. Had one where I missed the ball and only spotted it when head had a bully head at a winter.

Space is at a premium, I find getting grip above the balls and slip over one with the band and then pop down the 2nd one.

Vet can't understand why Suckler guys are not doing it when he's getting paid to squeeze large weanlings. He's waiting for someone to be killed when castrating some of these sucklers. Will only Squeeze now if they are sedated. Refuses otherwise. This was the chat when scanning last week

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966319#Comment_117966319

Our vet prefers to cut them out on older ones as they say it is best way to confirm complete job. Got them to try squeezing first as it they were housed at the time but said if they didn't start to shrink down cutting them out would be only option.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982482#Comment_117982482

I'd be reluctant to cut them if squeezing fails as you're no longer dealing with pristine anatomy- there will be scarring and adhesions complicating getting exposure of the balls. Usually after the squeezing there is some reduction in size and a second squeezing attempt works.

The epidural in the video seems like a great idea until you cause an infection in the spine. Best avoided without a surgical preparation- which would take time and slow down proceedings. Also, it needs time to become effective, and I didn't notice any benefit in the video, bar making the tail limp.

Not opening the vaginal tunic and twisting with the drill seems like a good practice. Should severely cut down on infections and haemorrhage.

Jim Simmental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975484#Comment_117975484

Thanks - does it take long for their bags to fall off ?

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985886#Comment_117985886

Usually around a month. They will be well withered by 10days.