An Post sent package back to UK - UK retailer won't refund

Hannaho

Hi!

I ordred medical shoes from the UK - I can only get this particular brand there - they cost 125.00 stg. They were ordered on 23rd August. They arrived in An Post Sorting Office, Crumlin, Dublin on 26th August, and they were there for 8 days until 3rd September. I had gone to our local An Post Sorting Office on 1st September, and they scanned the tracking number, and said the container that the shoes were in were still not opened. They gave me the customer service number to contact An Post again in couple of days to check on the progress of the deliver, but said that really there was no point in ringing them as they could not even get through to An Post Customer Service! On 3rd September, late afternoon, I tried to track the parcel again, and the Tracking message stated that the package, which was now in An Post Distribution Centre in Athlone, could not be delivered and they were 'trying' to send it back to the sender. No message as to why they couldn't deliver the package. I then contact the retailer in the UK, who said they will not refund the money as the package was delivered to Ireland. I said that yes it was delivered to Ireland, but is now being returned to them. I said they should use the tracking number and go on to An Post track and trace and they would see that An Post are sending the parcel back to them. What do I do in this situation? Do I get a chargeback on my card? Is there anyone I can pursue it with in the UK - I know there is a Tradings Standards Authority. Are sellers not obliged to refund you when you don't receive a package? Do they wait until the package is returned? Would welcome some advice on this - stg 125.00 is not an insignificant amount.

Citrus_8

Read the Terms and Conditions you've agreed when placed an order.

ads20101

ok - let’s cut to the facts

you have ordered and paid money for a product. You have not received this product. Additionally, you are now aware that the product will not be delivered.

very simply, then seller has broken their side of the agreement.

yes, try and get a chargeback. Did you use a credit rather than a debit card as you may have additional protections.

Hannaho

Thanks for replies.

Re their terms of sale - there is noting in there terms of sale re orders not delivered.

I tried to say they had broken the contract of sale as goods could not be delivered, but they kept refusing to refund. I ordered, unfortunately, with a debit card and not a credit card.

Darc19

They will not do a refund until the goods are back with them. They have absolutely NOT broken any terms of sale. Go this route and you will find it difficult to get any response.

That applies to virtually every online store.

The chances are that there was not a proper customs declaration and they could not be processed.

Return can take up to 2 weeks.

If they don't refund after the goods have been returned, then you can do a chargeback.

Chargeback is the same whether it's a debit or credit card. Makes no difference whatsoever

breakemall

I am in a similar position, parcel sitting in Dublin sorting office since 25th August. After a week of it not moving I spent two hours of my life that I will never get back waiting for a live chat with An Post. It appears that the import documentation was incomplete, but they could not say how and blamed Revenue. It is still sitting there waiting to be returned to sender.

It appears from other posts on Boards that this is now a regular occurrence, and no joy from An Post. Retailers fault? Maybe, but when they will not say what is wrong that rings alarm bells for me. Just have to sit and wait...

Hannaho

Thanks Darc, 19. That's helpful. I don't mind waiting two weeks, but what if the goods don't get returned to them, and are lost in transit somewhere between UK and Ireland, An Post and Royal Mail - after 2 weeks - do I get a refund then?

Darc19

And I very much doubt they arrived to the crumlin local office.

Dublin 12 is a big area and includes the main parcel sorting units in Merrywell, Parkwest and Oak Drive.

If the taric code, description and value was not on an official cn23 form, then it got rejected as it was from outside the EU and correct declaration was not made. (value over €150 incl delivery fee)

So they probably erred, but the goods have to be back in their warehouse before a refund can be made.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847911#Comment_117847911

100% the sellers fault with these items. Why would An Post waste time in them when Revenue are the ones deciding what's permitted or not? They have no compulsion to give you details. The seller is the customer. The seller had incomplete or incorrect tariff details. Complain to the seller and forget about imaginary alarm bells.

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847918#Comment_117847918

They will be returned. It follows a procedure. There are huge delays in customs - I'm waiting clearance on four shipments from China at present with UPS and FedEx.

It only got refused yesterday. So will now start the return journey and that can take a few days depending on UK delays.

Then you will get your refund. It's the same as returning the goods - just read that paragraph.

What to blame? Stupid Brits voting for Brexit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058207401/an-post-sent-package-back-to-uk-uk-retailer-wont-refund

The issue here is that a lot of bed room type sellers in the UK aren't putting the proper customs labels on goods. Many of them probably don't even realize that Ireland isn't a part of the UK.

cnocbui

Take an post to the small claims court.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848025#Comment_117848025

I hope to f=_$ you're joking. 🙄

Big help.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848025#Comment_117848025

You aren't a customer of An Post so how can you take them the small claims court? Their customer is the sender not the receiver.

We've a double whammy of Brexit and the removal of the €22 VAT exemption which means that sellers now have to fill in a lot more details on their packages and obviously a lot don't know how to fill in custom declarations.

There used to be an issue with people blaming eircode for their parcels from the UK being send to Canada but the real problem was that the UK sellers weren't writing Ireland on the address on the packages.

mondeoman72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848025#Comment_117848025

OMG what a stupid comment.

Quandary

Just be prepared for it to take a hell of a lot longer to get back to the seller than you would think.

I ordered a product from a UK seller on amazon on the 21st of July. No sign of the product, contacted seller who gave tracking numbers and only last week he received the returned product and issued me with a refund.

Lesson learned though.

Alun

There's a lot of this going on at the moment for parcels coming from outside the EU, including the UK.

See this thread for details, it's a complete mess by the sound of things.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058200515/an-post-returning-packages-from-outside-the-eu

I'm holding off ordering anything from the UK until this mess is sorted out, apart from from Amazon Prime deliveries which go via Amazon themselves where I am, sidestepping An Post entirely.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117849480#Comment_117849480

You just need to make sure you're buying from sellers who know what they're doing. I haven't had a delay on a single package and get a few every week from the UK? The delays shown here and on other threads aren't with An Post.

Alun

There's a recent post on that thread from a seller in the UK who appears to be doing everything by the book, but still getting stuff returned. They're having no such problems since they switched to a courier, DPD I think, sending exactly the same information. That would suggest that the problem is indeed with An Post.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117849621#Comment_117849621

Customs/Revenue dictate what An Post need do or not do. There are more posts where the delay is with couriers rather than An Post.

The bottom line is if the documentation is correct there's no delay with packages.

phester28

i wish it were that clear cut. I am still trying to find out what needs to be on the parcel ordered from aliexpress. Aliexpress are IOSS registered and collect vat. But some parcels are still getting stopped for vat and you cant find out why. or what they are checking. What is missing. From another site I read that Cainiao online channel delivery : ERP delivery ensures that ERP completes the upgrade of tax reform functions; But An post will not respond on what or how they check

Many sites are saying it is the merchant that is causing the issue but as its through a platform that is IOSS I dont beleive this is the case

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851594#Comment_117851594

An Post shouldn't respond to you on this. You are not the customer. For the pittance that's paid by Chinapost it would be a disgraceful waste of money to spend any time on these items. AliExpress's sellers are mucking it up, let them sort it out and let them find out what they are doing wrong. It is that clear cut.

Imagine the uproar from the public if An Post was found to be wasting resources on rectifying issues with cheap Chinese imports that already cost them to deliver.

I have yet to see a delayed package where the documentation was completely in order.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851594#Comment_117851594

No matter what training or documentation you provide people will still mess up. There are thousands of vendors on Ali so even a small percentage having issues, how good are you at filling in technical forms in your 2nd or 3rd language, will have a lot of items with incorrect documentation.

phester28

but as a buyer. I should be able to ask the right questions. and if the merchant messes up, at least you have some recourse. Thus far there is a void of info on what is needed on parcels to ensure that the vat paid is seen as paid by revenue. If Aliexpress have collected vat using there IOSS number then that should suffice. But alas it appears to be hit and miss. I have been lucky and had my parcels released by an post without charge (but no info was provided) only pay or else.

"I have yet to see a delayed package where the documentation was completely in order."

Well if you could define in order, it would be a start. All info re commodities codes etc does not apply to IOSS imports. Which aliexpress is compliant as a platform.

There would be no uproar if An post would let the receiver of goods know what for IOSS to work the number should be on the package or something to that effect.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117855970#Comment_117855970

It's up to the seller to get clarity as to what they need to do to export to this country. Revenue provide the necessary details. There is no void. The sellers can get the information. You're determined to see this as An Post's responsibility. It's not. Tell the seller to get their act together.

Documents in order means all the correct details suppled on the package. It's available via Revenue - indeed many countries provide assistance to their exporters on the requirements for trading with the EU

And you keep missing the point. Its not up to an post to waste time making you part of the scenario, as you're neither the customer nor the person who should be providing the details. Face it. AliExpress has thousands of small time sellers not up to scratch. That's their problem.

phester28

I think you are missing the point here. IOSS and the IOSS number is an aliexpress agreement. Not a merchant agreement. Just as Amazon looks after the labelling T&C vat etc for all amazon sold products.

I also think that its not revenues rules but the EU rules. Hence the IOSS agreement with the EU. Not unless Revenue have special rules in excess of that imposed from the EU regarding pre clearance using the IOSS.

How can you tell a seller to get their act together if an post dont let you know how they check goods to verify that goods are precleared and vat paid.

I cant find out from revenue and google goes as far as ERP, IOSS number, even when I am the receiver of goods. If I was wrong then why would an post release my goods when I contact them with the relevant info. Which they are contractually obliged to do.

They have wasted far more time sending all the packaged back (which they are contractually obliged to do) if vat is not paid rather than publish a circular informing the public of what is needed to avoid getting flagged for vat payment