Lidl: 10c for used bottles and cans [Expired]

Yerevan is beautiful

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319084#Comment_121319084

So people can just take the bottle and litter later on.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319099#Comment_121319099

It depends. The bottles need to have special barcode so if they don't have the barcode then no.

For Hospitality these are the guidelines:

It is up to each establishment to determine whether or not to charge the deposit. If a deposit is charged, the consumer can take their container off site. If the deposit is not charged, then the business is responsible for collecting the containers and taking them to a Return Point Operator to reclaim their deposit.

Yerevan is beautiful

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319115#Comment_121319115

There should be a proprietary sticker on the bottles then and the business held responsible for litter on the street caused by them.

The cafe owners should be responsible for preventing them being removed from the premises.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319077#Comment_121319077

So If my can goes from 2.50 to 2.60 you're saying the producer and retailer get nothing.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319144#Comment_121319144

The scheme is operated and funded by the drinks industry. If you don't return the can and claim the 10 cent deposit it will be retained by industry.

There is an exemption for retailers under 250m2. Though once they get all retailers registered i'm sure they will force it on the smaller ones in a couple of years anyhow.

Shops can manually take returns or they can pay out of their own pocket for a RVM (vending machine). It's not practical to manually do it - imagine a staff member having to stop their normal duty to count dozens of bottles and argue with the customer over some that were invalid. It's just not practical. So in practice they are all forced to buy/rent the machine.

The smallest vending machines are like 15k as far as I know. The larger ones are 20k or 30k. Someone above said there were 2500 orders already. Whoever is behind these machines is making a killing. They will constantly jam up, need maintainance and repairs, whoever gets this contract is most definitely not operating on a "not for profit" basis. If you look closely enough I expect you'll find they are related to a politician or some brown envelopes have changed hands. We've seen enough government scams in this country - voting machines and clocks in the liffey etc.

None of this is necessary. We recycled 79% of aluminium cans in 2019. That's better than some countries who have been running the Deposit Return Scam for years.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319068#Comment_121319068

They have to apply and show that there is an option close by and display details of that option.

BTW, retailers will get 2.2c for handling of each return, so 5,000 empties = €110. Manual return will get 2.6c, so 5000 = €130. Near where I live there's a takeaway next to a Spar shop. Makes no sense for the takeaway to accept them. The spar shop has confirmed they will have a machine.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319084#Comment_121319084

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319087#Comment_121319087

Thanks for the info.

Makes sense not to be charging deposit in those cases.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319159#Comment_121319159

Thanks that's exactly what I wanted to know.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319144#Comment_121319144

Yes.

The Continental Op

For anyone that hasn't seen one of these "returns/recycling booths" yet heres some pictures of the inside.

This is at Aldi Dungarvan and not in use yet so photographed through the glass walls.

There are two Re-turn stations side by side with the Reject Items Only bin between them.

Str8outtaWuhan

Couple of interesting points. One assumes that one can demand cash back if you pay in cash? If there is slight damage to bottle or if can is slightly crushed so that barcode is not scannable I assume you get nothing back even if the bottle /can is recyclable?

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318890#Comment_121318890

Nope. Producers pay a fee to put every bottle on the market. Retailers get a small fee for every bottle they collect.

Experience from schemes across the world show that in year 1, you can expect about 3/4 return across cans and bottles. It shoots up in year 2. BY year 3 you are heading into the mid 90s.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319363#Comment_121319363

have you any links to these studies?

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318958#Comment_121318958

https://re-turn.ie/news-hub/take-back-exemptions-announced/

The exemption is on taking back, not on charging the deposit.

A store that is availing of an exemption must show a sign indicating that they are. There should be a qr code at the till which will link customers to a return point map. The reality is that they will be very extensive across the country.

ON the point of whether plastic is recycled. Producers are required to pay for recycling for packaging they put on the market. Its highly unlikely that either cans or PET (the substance in drinks bottles) will end up in third world countries. Recycled PET and aluminium are in big demand and there are facilities in Europe for reprocessing. One potential benefit of DRS schemes in Ireland and NI is that we could well see a PET reprocessing facility here, which would further drive down emissions. Up until now, the number of bottles being recycled would not have justified it.

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318924#Comment_121318924

Where there is a closed loop on a premesis, say a pub or restaurant, the publican can choose not to charge the deposit and they pay it on your behalf and reclaim it back. That will save them having to act as a take back point. Most pubs tend to avoid cans and plastic bottles cos they make better margins on glass.

It'l get more messy in areas where there is a shop and restaurant together. In a petrol station with sit down restaurant, they are more likely going to end up charging because the chance of the customer consuming off site is higher.

Some other places like food courts will most likely be using one single return point between multiple outlets.

The volumes in these places are relatively small and I would imagine the focus of the scheme will be on getting retail launched correctly. Things like sporting venues, they will have solutions for, but they may end up getting tweaked over time.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319420#Comment_121319420

They'll need to update their website so. Where they say "any retailer" it should read "some retailers"

OmegaGene

anyone see the bargain ?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319549#Comment_121319549

Maybe if you manage to get a bottle in a place that doesn't charge deposit, but it has the right barcode so you return it.

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319570#Comment_121319570

I remember in London years ago they had places all over that would pay money for cans and homeless people used to collect them, I don’t recall extra being added as in this case But it certainly kept the streets clear of cans

Rigor Mortis

This will probably be a big aspect of it. Those of a certain age will remember doing the same with glass bottles in the early 80s and before. Thats why there wont be many not returned. Kids will make sure to get the cash. In my kids heads half a dozen bottles will get you most of the way to a pack of football cards.

batistuta9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319180#Comment_121319180

Retailers doing the manual returns could just take them to a machine for more money then?

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320542#Comment_121320542

How?

They give 15c / 25c. They would lose their 2.6c processing fee. They'd get 15c / 25c from the machine. Net loss 2.6c and an awful lot of work

Sheep Shagger

Lads can we please keep the thread on point otherwise I'll close it.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319673#Comment_121319673

That was just for the recycling value of the metal, which has massively fallen

In some countries where this has been implemented it causes extra litter because homeless and addicts turn over bins and tear open bin bags etc to look for cans.

There's also been fraud everywhere it was implemented.

Cienciano

So, the advantage of this is less bottle and can litter around. Presumably people will pick them up now.

Disadvantage is if you previously used you green bin to recycle bottles and cans, you can't anymore. You need to store plastic bottles and cans "undamaged" somewhere and make a trip to a recycling centre. Other disadvantage is if you buy from somewhere like a van or small shop and no where to recycle, you're drink just went up 25 cent unless you bring the bottle home, store it and bring it to a recycling centre.

It makes sense in some situations but it's absolutely stupid for others. As usual, the green option is going to cost the public.

Hotblack Desiato

The most worrying thing about this is that bottles will have to be specially labelled for Ireland. Not a problem for Bud or Carlsberg etc. We can expect producers/importers of more exotic / smaller volume beers, ciders etc. to either just not bother with the Irish market, or jack up their prices to cover the extra costs.

We're supposed to be in a single market, anything like this (or the stupid health warnings they want to bring in) should be done at an EU level so any producer can sell the same product in any member state unaltered.

Plus there's the absolute pain in the hoop of instead of just putting crushed bottles/cans into the green bin as I do now, having to store them undamaged (Where? I get through several 2L bottles of fizzy water a week) and then bring them back and painstakingly put them through a machine.

kirving

I can't see this scheme being cost effective or environmentally friendly in the slightest.

Why would I bother going to all that trouble when I could put in in the green bin for free? Typical Irish half-assed solution. In Germany you get up to 50c back per bottle, and they're refillable.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440506#Comment_121440506

If it increases recycling rates and reduces littering it will be a positive.

It's kind of stating the obvious but if you continue to put the items you paid a deposit on in the green bin you will literally be throwing away money.

As discussed in this thread and others people who currently recycle properly will have to put up with more trouble.