[Social & Fun] unfair modding of sinn fein thread mod beasty

mikethecop

i d like some one to look at the modding of the sinn fein thread in CA ,

it very clearly seems to be modded in a extremely pro sf way ,

pro sf posters are allowed to make any ridiculous statements they wish and then demand links when it is pointed out ,

reported posts seem to result in no action and warnings and bans are given for trying to defend ones position .

i understand this a politically hot topic but it appears to be very pro one side particularly from the mod beasty, who is then dismissive and aggressive towards me in response to reporting issues .

mikethecop

• Beasty 10:42AM
• You are being warned for the following post:

• mikethecop✭✭
• Aug 31, 2021

The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

• FrancieBradyAug 31, 2021
• https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830447#Comment_117830447
• Caught out on what?
• Posting propaganda seems to be his crime?
• Ok..tell me what was propaganda?
• 
  
• your just reposting the same denial regardless, like a child caught with his hand in the cookie jar but lacks the maturity to own up
• 
  
• what do you think a professional propagandist does all day francie ? not sure its a crime just a another distasteful part of sf
• 
  
• View Post
• 
  
• 
  
• Stick to discussing the topic and not other users

• mikethecop 4:29PM
• i am discussing the topic , can i not point out when another poster is lying about said topic ? come on beasty pretending facts are not facts isnt discussion , the mods let the shinners away with a lie about the very foundation of the party for weeks and took no action

• Beasty 5:47PM
• Discussing the topic? Really??
• "your just reposting the same denial regardless, like a child caught with his hand in the cookie jar but lacks the maturity to own up"
• "what do you think a professional propagandist does all day francie ? not sure its a crime just a another distasteful part of sf"
• Now do not insult my intelligence further

• mikethecop 6:19PM
• and yet factually accurate, francie is a prime example of a shinner bot and was caught out in a lie
• 
  
• or are we not allowed to point out blatant lies in support of one politically ideology, you have one poster in that thread openly supporting dissident republicanism and then no action when reported ffs ?
• 
  
• man new boards sucks

• Beasty 6:45PM
• I do not care what you claim to be fact. Stick to discussing the topic or you will lose your posting privileges.

• mikethecop 7:03PM
• aw right , can you direct me to the process for reporting a mod please ?

• Beasty 8:52PM
• The dispute resolution forum has just re-opened if you wish to appeal my decision. Please post our full PM conversation if you do start an appeal

mikethecop

and then banned from the thread

this appears very unfair and biased towards the shinnerbot posters on this site and against any one who stands up to them

Spear

I've notified the Social and Fun cmods of this one.

Pawwed Rig

What are you disputing here? Is it a ban, a card or just a thread ban?

mikethecop

thread ban and unfair modding

Pawwed Rig

With respect to the threadban this is something that needs to be discussed with the mods of the forum rather than via a DRP.

What you perceive to be unfair modding again is not a DRP issue and should be better addressed in feedback. If you want to pm me some examples I can have a look.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844511#Comment_117844511

Since the warning isn't being disputed, this is moved to Helpdesk.

FrancieBrady

The mod Beasty has changed the way CA is moderated.

I was also threadbanned and inside the space of 2 weeks went from zero to Level 3 warning with restrictions on my account.

I am not going to deny my posting was robust, but the culture of CA is robust posting. I can find numerous posts in CA that are exactly the same as the one I was threadbanned for. Just ask.

Beasty complains about not having time to read the threads and that he only acts on reported posts, which means effectively, report happy posters are doing the moderating.

It is he who changed when the new site was launched, not any of the posters, including me. My style of posting is the same as it always was. I was warned for 'discussing another poster' (I actually wasn't, I was actually addressing another poster, albeit robustly) yet two posters discussed me on thread. My post was reported, it was deleted and I got warned. The other two who discussed me, posts are still there so clearly weren't sanctioned. Where is the sense or consistency there?

There needs to be a new charter as singling out only reported posts for sanction is just ridiculous not to mention unfair.

Beasty

Do you honestly think we have time to review every post across Current Affairs and Coronavirus forums? These are two of the busiest forums on the site. I can confirm that before the platform change they were the 2 busiest forums. Do you think we reviewed every post then?

I've spent 4 hours this evening just dealing with reports and resultant PM exchanges. This is not untypical of the time I have spent most days since the changeover. There were a few days when I was not involved at all as I was in hospital, and I have tried to limit my time on the site as i recover. Do you think I should spend more than 4 hours dealing with issues across these two forums?

It has been pointed out elsewhere that following the changeover due to the limited moderation tools and functionality we have we have had limited modding resources. I would say that across those two forums there have been only two of us very actively modding with one or two more chipping in. And it's not a case of saying get more mods - they will face the same issues

Hopefully we will see some improvements in our modding resources and tools before too long, but the priority has (quite rightly in my opinion) been to try and improve the experience for regular users

Beasty

Just on a point of admin for this thread. It has been moved from the Dispute Resolution Forum where it is permitted to post relevant mod PMs. In Help Desk the permission of the sender is required and I can confirm I am happy for the above PM exchange to be posted here

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847808#Comment_117847808

Do you honestly think we have time to review every post across Current Affairs and Coronavirus forums? These are two of the busiest forums on the site. I can confirm that before the platform change they were the 2 busiest forums. Do you think we reviewed every post then?

Not what I asked for.

What I asked for is an acceptance that CA is a robust forum where posters robustly challenge each other. I repeat, there are numerous posts similar to and worse than mine across CA and always have been.

Only acting on reported posts is therefore effectively allowing the 'reporter' to do the moderation.

It is unfair for somebody to get threadbanned for 'discussing other posters' when two posters have a discussion among themselves about another poster and escape sanction and deletion of the post by virtue of the fact that nobody reports them and when 100's of posts of a similar nature are made.

You changed the how you modded the forum Beasty after the launch of the new site, the posters haven't changed. If a poster lies or maliciously attacks another poster then of course a mod should step in. But the arbitrary way sanctions are being handed out is wrong.

And the extent to which you are being over worked is an internal matter for Boards.ie, I honestly don't know why posters should suffer because of it.

Beasty

The pair of you were threadbanned. There had been numerous warnings about interacting in a civil manner. There had been extensive bickering between the two of you leading up to the threadbans

mike you stated "what do you think a professional propagandist does all day francie ? not sure its a crime just a another distasteful part of sf"

That warranted a threadban on a standalone basis for ignoring my explicit warning made only shortly before your post

In your case Francie there had been a build up of such behaviour in the thread. The post you were threadbanned for picked up a 0 point warning. You had already picked up three 0 point warnings and three 1 point warnings in the thread since the changeover. You had picked up prior sanctions under the old platform. A flavour of some of the comments you made in the week or two leading up to the threadban:

"I get the feeling you have been told/conditioned to answer in this way, having no knowledge base of your own in which to refute what he says."

"You lied about me two posts ago. I reported you. Let the mods deal with it now"

"Maybe back up what you said for a mod when they take a look."

"You are quite simply a disgrace to decent debate, which may be robust but mostly doesn't sink to lies."

"Reported"

"’ll let Dudley72 do the ridiculing and mocking. Wouldn’t like to steal his thunder"

Examples of being uncivil towards other users and indeed backseat modding

You have been a problem throughout the lifetime of the thread Francie and I stand by my threadbans for each of you

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117849116#Comment_117849116

Clearly not going to get a fair hearing here.

I repeat...every comment you quoted by me above has multiple (in the hundreds) similar comments by other users right across CA. You refuse to recognise this or understand why only acting on reported posts is simply bad or inadequate moderation.

You say 'I am a problem' on a thread that has seen me accused of 'supporting the killing of children' and the 'repeated rape of a child'. Allegations freely made several times and still unactioned publicly despite being reported. The posters making those allegations STILL free to make them and not deemed to be 'problems. To be robust Beasty, up the yard on that. Not to mention the repeated 'shinnerbot' allegations made on thread by anyone who feels like it (discussing other posters Beasty?) and even here by mike. Who incidentally, I didn't report and don't think should be threadbanned either.

As I said, it is your act that is out of kilter with the very obvious culture of CA's, which is robust comment on other users at times. IT IS EVEN HAPPENING THIS MORNING.

I am not going to start quoting other posters to prove this and just hope an admin with an open mind can take a look at the posting styles in CA and adjudicate on this and come up with a policy that can allow debate without people falling foul of an arbitrary interpretation of the rules by somebody who admits to being swamped by the work load and ONLY moderates when somebody reports.

P.S. And a very big P.S. I am not for a second trying to pretend that my posting is not uncivil, it is at times. And if it gets malicious or slanderous it deserves sanction.

The point I am making is that uncivil posts are part of the culture of CA, if you look.

Beasty

Other uncivil posts will be actioned if reported. Cannot claim to see every report as sometimes real life issues get in the way. I do though try and sweep through looking for any where another mod has not already posted in the report thread. Even then it's not straighforward as, unlike with the old site, report titles do not name the relevant forum, leaving some guesswork (although not in the case of the thread which triggered this thread)

I know it's a site issue, but we are significantly under-resourced since the platform change, and we sometimes just have to be pragmatic when dealing with reports. It's impossible to find the time to try and dig back to whatever may have triggered a reaction. And you will currently find the actions of probably 2 mods are involved at present, because there are only two of us doing the vast majority of modding. As an Admin I have extra tools (although still limited) meaning I can often deal with things a little more efficiently and indeed my Dad's Army avatar is likely to turn up in more inboxes as a result

Once things settle with the new site I am hopeful we will be spreading the load, but at present you are only likely to find one of the two of us acting, giving the appearance we are more pro-actively modding when we are not really. We are both heavily reliant on reports and if stuff is not reported we will very rarely have the opportunity to look for stuff.

Turning back to the OP, who claims I am modding in a "pro SF way" - I can assure both of you (and I'm sure you will not disagree with this Francie) I have no affiliation with SF (or any other political party for that matter). I will try and treat reports fairly and consistently, but if only one side is reporting (which is not the case here BTW) then only one side is likely to find themselves subject to sanction

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117849160#Comment_117849160

This again is completely refusing to address the point made which is why are you taking action on reported posts that contain nothing more uncivil than is happening across CA everyday of the week.

There is either a consistent rule or there isn't. Only actioning reported posts hands moderation to the reporter.

I asked you to define what was uncivil about the post you banned me for, (here it is):

You still haven't pointed out the propaganda in his letter.

Not a great look here mike to be honest, evasion, deflection, spurious claims you cannot back up.

*P.S. Whether I knew who he was has no bearing on what he wrote, but cling to it with all your might anyway.

You'll get no more engagement with me on it.

and I pointed out to you if you read the exchanges that mike had indeed 'evaded'(still hasn't outlined what was 'propaganda' in the letter) 'deflected' and made 'spurious claims' (about me knowing who the letter writer was, which was completely irrelevant one way or the other)

You decided to threadban me for that because it was reported, YET I said nothing untrue in the post, and I still don't see anything particularly uncivil in it.

Mike's claim about me being a shinner bot and mods being pro SF is indeed preposterous and completely unfounded, but that doesn't get away from the fact you are not dealing with moderation fairly Beasty by only reacting to reports. Not in a way anyone can navigate anyhow. It's arbitrary and seems to be based on how tired or overworked you are.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850371#Comment_117850371

i am hesitant to post here but your last paragraph is frankly laughable ,

every post in every thread on one specific topic and with a opinion changing only in line with current party policy

persistent demands for links and proofs for every statement no matter who simple with flaccid dismissals when links provided coupled with out right lies about documented historical facts and presenting party propaganda as a letter to the editor.

any one daring to point this out is shouted down as a fffg or some such same pattern every single time ,

least you could own it mate

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850642#Comment_117850642

every post in every thread on one specific topic and with a opinion changing only in line with current party policy

persistent demands for links and proofs for every statement no matter who simple with flaccid dismissals when links provided coupled with out right lies about documented historical facts and presenting party propaganda as a letter to the editor.

The above is verifiably untrue.

You did not and still haven't pointed out what was 'propaganda' in the letter. A letter I read and judged on it merits and didn't even look at who wrote it and posted to the thread for that reason alone. Discussion.

I asked you to judge it on it merits or lack of, and point out where the writer was using 'propaganda'.

You point blank refused to do that. Why? Because there is no propaganda in it.

Also, I HAVE NEVER used the 'FFFG' tag EVER on this site.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850706#Comment_117850706

you accidentally posted a letter from the former editor of the sf propaganda news paper and former sf lord mayor with out noticing it on a sf thread after years of posting universally pro sf propaganda your self ......

your currently on another thread repeatedly demanding proof from other posters that varadker wasnt on the gov jet last night inspite of proof it was a medical flight , do you want a pic of the sick kid too ?

like i said pattern is very clear

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850762#Comment_117850762

This is ridiculous.

I didn't know who the writer was. Believe it or not I don't know a lot of the personnel in SF or what they did in the past.

I didn't know Lynn Boylan and Eoin O'Broin were married or partners until a tweet today.

You refuse to take my word on that, nothing I can do but keep saying it. And it neither has anything to do with the content of the letter...it is irrelevant if I knew or not.

I have asked precisely NOBODY for proof Varadkar was not on the jet.

This is just hilarious lying and twisting what is happening - discussion of a breaking story or (as I stated in my first post on it, what might be a non story).

There is NO pattern, except in your head and as a means of deflection from things you are asked to back up. Like propaganda in a letter...still NOT addressed.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850789#Comment_117850789

like i said denials abd point blank lies

post 9995 in the thread about leo and the village story you said

"Always the shinners fault 😁

Have they said yet who was on it on the way home?

Can you cut and paste statement?"

I feel i was accurate in the analogy of a child caught with its hand in the cookie jar but lacking the maturity to admit .

and yes of course i wouldn't take your word , it has proven to not credible

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850867#Comment_117850867

How is that 'demanding proof' that he wasn't on the flight?

It is asking for the poster to cut and paste what he/she said was a statement from the Air Corp and the matter of the flight was closed.

Have they said yet who was on it on the way home?

Can you cut and paste statement?"

As another poster pointed out later there was NO mention of the return flight and the poster was wrong to say the matter was closed.

The Air Corp until this moment - 8.27pm - have not said anything official about who was on the flight home.

Again, you are reading things into a post that are just not there.

Beasty

And I think the last few posts highlight very well why removing both posters from the discussion was appropriate.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853350#Comment_117853350

Sure Beasty, just ignore the fact that it is shown clearly that Mike sees posts in his own way. He wades in with the Gatling gun making accusations but when you actually look at the posts he is referencing there is nothing to it. He thinks you are pro-SF ffs.

You STILL haven't addressed why one or two posters can face punitive measures when the culture of CA is robust posting. Take a look at it this morning, robust debate with plenty of posts similarly uncivil to the one's you took action with here and worse. Plenty of 'discussion' of other users too. A mockery of your arbitrary and inconsistent moderation in fact.

I'll stick to what I said, there will be no fair hearing here or feedback taken seriously.

Beasty

The pair of use took the opportunity to resurrect your bickering here

I'm not for lifting either threadban

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853946#Comment_117853946

I didn't come here to appeal the threadban and haven't.

I came to give feedback, (as soon as it was moved to 'Feedback') on how CA is being moderated.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117854043#Comment_117854043

This isn't Feedback, it's the Helpdesk.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117854291#Comment_117854291

It isn't Dispute Resolution anymore was the point. I am not appealing the threadban here.

The Help Desk charter says it has nothing to do with threadbans (why is Beasty ruling on them so?) and that it is for dealing with issues with Mods and moderation.

Beasty

Feedback is for site-wide issues. Forum-specific issues are dealt with in Help Desk.

There is no formal appeal process for threadbans. Dispute Resolution has no remit for them. They can though be discussed in Help Desk, as happened with the OP of this thread.

As the pair of you were threadbanned simultaneously from the same thread (albeit from different "sides" of the discussion), I have used the opportunity to explain further for the benefit of each of you why I chose to issue threadbans.

Relevant CMod(s) may choose to chip into the discussion, but it's not a requirement.

One difference from the old platform is there is no pre-approval required to post here. We may need to revisit threadbans and how they are dealt with as they may become more prevalent as we don't (at this stage anyway) have any powers to ban at forum level.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117855209#Comment_117855209

Permanent and Site Bans I took to include any ban issued on the site. A bit unnecessarily confusing. Anyway, I wasn't appealing my ban and only got involved when the thread was moved from DR.

My issue is with arbitrary modding which leaves every poster's posts at the whim of a report while similar posting goes unsanctioned and indeed is the culture of CA. I note another poster fell foul of this arbitrary system today in an exchange involving me. I didn't report them, because I didn't find what they said offensive. May have been robust and uncivil but that is the culture of the site. Plenty more similar posts today. Reporting just because your feelings are hurt is a ridiculous way to moderate and should not be cause. Offensive and malicious posting can then be dealt with properly.

I've said my piece. I don't see any point discussing it further with the mod who is causing the issue, particularly since the new site went live.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117855459#Comment_117855459

Bans are a technical thing (or were on the older platform), and were enforced by the platform and its permissions system.

A thread ban is a moderator instruction rather a permissions thing. The naming is legitimately confusing, you're not the first to be confused by it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858144#Comment_117858144

Have any admins looked at how unreasonable the system of only actioning reported posts is?

Could they explain how the post I was threadbanned for and the ones I was warned for are any different to what happens all day long in CA?

As I said, I don't want to start posting other users posts here and dragging them in, but I can show numerous posts that are similarly robust or uncivil to mine that happen every day.

My point is, robust challenge is the culture of the place, it functions fine as long as it isn't malicious lying or gratuitously offensive.

Hurt feelings because you are challenged should not be grounds for reporting and certainly shouldn't be adding to the workload of a mod..

Beasty

I have stated repeatedly I am not going looking for thigs to sanction. That is my view as a Site Administrator. I have told you repeatedly why, but you still seem obsessed with the point

TBH I have wasted so much time interacting with you going forward I will limit it to when I feel you warrant sanction. Life really is not worth the likes of you demanding so much attention

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859576#Comment_117859576

I actually wasn't looking comment from you Beasty if you read the post, it was addressed to admin or whoever is the next level.

I already stated 'I've said my piece' to you.

BTW I don't think you should be looking for posts to sanction. I have clearly said sanctioning posts for being 'uncivil' in a forum that is frequently uncivil is just a minefield for users because one post might get reported and another not.

I found that post of yours very uncivil btw. But I'll let you off and won't report it. 😎

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859687#Comment_117859687

Beasty is an admin, but I'm not. However I am the Helpdesk and DRP moderator, I was just making sure you informed that this was in the correct section for it, and not being misdirected. So I can't speak for the admins regarding your questions.