Separation - husband resistant

sjosdublin56

Hi there,

My husband and I have been married for nearly 3 year (will be 3 in November) and I have decided I want to separate and ultimately divorce. no one specific cause but we are very incompatible and I have become extremely unhappy in the relationship. There is zero chance of reconciliation on my part, but I believe he would like to continue the marriage.

he is a non EU national and is currently eligible to stay and work in Ireland as he is married to an Irish national. I don’t want him to lose this so am happy to postpone legal proceedings until he is more sure he won’t lose his visa. Having said this, I am not willing to live with him indefinitely. I have asked him to look for another place to live, we currently live in a property that I bought before we met.

he is currently getting a bit nasty about it all but I will admit that this has happened quickly (we officially “broke up” just over a week ago) so am happy to give him more time to let it sink in and figure out what he wants to do, and he needs/wants from me. But like I said, I can’t live with home forever. How long do you think is reasonable for us to cohabitate before he either moves out or I enlist the services of a solicitor?

to note, I am financially better off than him (in terms of salary) but he certainly able to afford a place of his own. He hasn’t contributed a huge amount of money to household while we were together but if it came to it I would be willing to give him money to repay whatever he did contribute. No children involved at all.

any advise would be greatly appreciated

thanks!

Stanford

Ireland has a "no fault" separation/divorce regime which means that either spouse can file for separation/divorce without citing grounds, see a Solicitor for advice, I don't see how proceedings would affect his non-EU residency status, technically the marriage must have been over 2 years ago but living together in a broken marriage is possible, don't delay the matter any further

billo516

Will he be entitled to 50% of the property ?

Stanford

In the case of children the female spouse is typically allowed to stay in the family home but, as no kids here, he will be entitled to 50% of the family home, the remaining spouse must either sell the house or buy the other spouse out, its always cheaper to settle all issues between Solicitors and then have the matter ruled in the Circuit Court. Failing this the Judge will decide in the absence of any agreement.

Stanford

Some other questions arise here.

Have you both lived together since you married? Has has contributed to any mortgage repayments. Since you are married then your house is half his irrespective of the fact that you bought it, if you separate then you are still married and so his resident status won't change. Also you need to be legally separated for 4 years before applying for a divorce. Be careful here, even tho you want to separate he still has the full protection of a marriage.

sjosdublin56

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833813#Comment_117833813

Thanks for the reply! I was under the impression that he would not automatically be entitled to 50% and that, if it went to a judge, division of property would be determined by a number of factors (length of marriage, current financial situation of both parties etc. ). If he is entitled to 50% of the property, am I entitled to 50% of his assets? He has a hefty sum of money from a recent inheritance. I have no interest in this money, I’m just curious where things may go if he decides he wants half of the house!

storker

If he wants half of a house that you bought and mostly paid for, then I'd say you should be very interested in his money.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833840#Comment_117833840

Alot of incorrect information there, I am not a solicitor so I won't break it down but.......

Stanford

What I said was "in the absence of an agreement" the Judge would decide, yes if you go to Court you will both have to swear an "Affidavit of Means" disclosing all your means which will typically would be split 50/50 unless there is some big variance in either of your means. You might be best advised to give up any claim on his inheritance if he gives up any claim to the house.

ahnowbrowncow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058206893/separation-husband-resistant

Generally, in a divorce, assets are divided equally between both parties, including savings and the house. If an agreement can't be reached between you, a judge will decide, they may take into consideration your contribution towards the house.

There are really only 2 outcomes with the house, he moves out and you buy his share of the house or you sell the house and divide the funds. You can both remain in the house but that isn't viable in the long term.

Stanford

Apologies the time between separation and divorce is 12 months, remember you also both need to renounce your inheritance rights on separation as you will still be legally married.

frankeee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833844#Comment_117833844

From personal experience you are correct, i.e. length of marriage, affidavit of means etc. determine the outcome. It's not automatically decided that either of you are entitled to 50% of the other person's assets.

Stanford

I would urge you to both go to mediation to try to come to an agreement on which the Court can rule, otherwise the case is deemed to be "contested" and you are at the mercy of the Judge, mediation is about reaching a settlement on means/maintenance etc. , it is not about marriage reconciliation.

Op, you need to get legal advice and keep it to yourself. He can get his own advice.

mrslancaster

Good example of why we need to recognise pre-nupital agreements in Ireland. Assets owned by one party before a marriage shouldn't be split 50/50 if the marriage breaks down after a few years, especially if there are no children to consider.

Dilbert75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833904#Comment_117833904

Try again.

As I understand it, and please verify with Citizens Information and/or a solicitor, you have to be separated for 2 years out of the preceding 3 years before you can apply for divorce. You don't have to have a legal separation in place first. Mediation is a good process where both people are willing to engage, and you can get a separation agreeement to be approved by the court, but if one person is unreasonable it can't be successful. Then it's a less certain process. Him getting inheritance might be a blessing for you if its value exceeds his 50% share of the equity in your jointly-owned house.

I think it's admirable that you're considerate enough not to immediately threaten his residency status, but ultimately you've got to prioritise you. From what you've said here, you don't owe him anything in terms of delaying divorce indefinitely. If divorce does threaten his residency, his desire to be agreeable to divorce may be inhibited, so the sooner you make an agreement for him to forego his share of the equity in return for you foregoing your share of his inheritance, the better for you.

Tow

There is a lot of incorrect information regarding the house.

Regarding his residency in Ireland, you are required to notify INIS of the change in relationship status immediately. They will then make a decision on his residency.

Google 'Stamp 4 relationship breakdown' for more details.

1874

I think a lot of incorrect information here regarding the house,

1. No kids, so the person doesnt gain any entitlement imo, even after marriage, that used to be until 5 years has elapse
2. Even with kids I understood it used to be 2 years before they get entitlement,

"Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010"

"The Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 sets out certain legal rights and protections that cohabiting couples have, which may allow you seek redress in the courts. To qualify for any redress orders, such as a property adjustment order, cohabiting couples without children have to have lived together in an intimate and committed relationship for 5 years. If you have children together, it is 2 years."

1. With the nastiness, you should be more concerned about yourself than him, he is not your business and the nastiness, would concern me, Id get him moved out, and I say that as a guy who married a person of foreign nationality where I owned (mortgaged but not significant) my own home before I met the person and (no offence to anyone) who thinks the system is biased against men, especially in regard to men, their property rights and children. Not trying to concern you OP, but their Status is none of your concern, even if you mean well by living together, delaying seperating (even though you can live together and be seperated) seems only to benefit the other party. What if they interpret events not seeming favourable to them, does nastiness turn into hostility? If they can afford to make and pay their own way (and specifically as there are no children involved) I'd cut them loose, if they wont leave Id involve the Gardai, you dont need to make anything up (not suggesting you would) but nastiness could change, all you have to say is if you were uncomfortable/concerned, if that is how you felt and you can tell them you asked him to find somewhere else and this is your own home in your name. As they can cover their own costs, let them do so, if they can't, not really your problem, same as the right to work, reside, whatever. Personally, I'd be worried for my safety if I was in your shoes. People can have significantly different values in terms of what is acceptable and in terms of rights and beliefs of right and wrong.

Marriage should not lock people to each other forever and what people contribute should matter especially if they were able and didnt. My gripe is the system is biased against men (nothing against the OP at all), I just think men should have the same rights and options.

JimmyMW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047471#Comment_118047471

Does the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010, apply to married couples or just civil partnerships and cohabitants? Similar to the OP i am currently going through a separation/divorce after a very short marriage and the house was fully bought and paid solely by myself. does the 2 year rule come into it above? And is this living together for two years or living in the house together for 2 years?

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049725#Comment_118049725

Im not sure, Im not a legal professional, it may be different for you as a man, and be dependant on if you have children or not.

So, I may have gotten it wrong myself, as the OP is married, but the persons contribution will be taken into account for the OP I believe and maybe their status too, hence one reason I'd suggest they move forward rather than delay.

Donald Trump

When you say "half the house" you would be referring to the equity in the house I presume. If you have a decent mortgage outstanding, that might be a good chunk less than his inheritance windfall.

Your issue might be proving the existence of the windfall inheritance if he is a non-EU national (depending on the country!) and it comes down to that

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050088#Comment_118050088

You have, gotten it wrong, that is. That applies to a couple living together who are not married. Once you marry a whole different set of property rights come into play.

OP, ignore internet advice and talk to a good solicitor before deciding what you want to do.

To apply for divorce you need to be living 'separately and apart' for two of the three previous years. Judicial Separation is pretty pointless as it is just an additional unecessarry expensive step in the process.

A mediated separation agreement might both provide evidence of when you started living 'separately and apart' for subsequent divorce proceedings and also provide a foundation which may influence the court's rulings in those divorce proceedings.

FishOnABike

Xterminator

Sorry OP.

Can you put yourself in your husbands shoes and tell us why he would choose to move out now? Because you asked?

He should not move out. It would be against his best interests. You want hm to move out but what you want should no longer be his primary concern. Its not nasty to refuse to move out.

Marriage is a legal contract. Divorce is a process that you haven't even started.

As mentioned above mediation might be a good way forward. You seem absolutely tone deaf to the fact that he has no obligation to accede to your request to move. so an impartial 3rd party might be a good idea.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833813#Comment_117833813

If both parents are working full-time outside the home, and looking after the children equally (as are very many couples today on both counts), why would the woman in such a situation be "typically allowed to stay in the family home"?

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502505#Comment_118502505

Prejudice

CreadanLady

Are you in fear of him?

If you are you could apply for a barring order. If that is awarded he will be legally obliged to leave the house.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525650#Comment_118525650

The OP has not indicated they are in fear or that there are any genuine grounds for a barring order in the thread so far. Not wanting to move out, incompatability or mutual discomfort due to the breakup of a relationship are not grounds for a barring order.

The best solution is if the OP and her husband can agree terms for ending their marriage in an uncontested divorce. This will be faster, less expensive - think hundreds rather than tens of thousands and have less collateral damage to both than escalating things unnecessarily.

If it can be avoided I would not create a high conflict legal battle where a collaborative approach may work once your husband has had time to process and accept the end of your relationship.

Stanford

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502505#Comment_118502505

Because Judges are very reluctant to upset kids lives by having them move out of the family home, I should say that, in my experience, Irish judges are biased towards the needs of the spouse with whom the kids will live.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118551938#Comment_118551938

But if the children have always lived with both parents in the family home, why would the mother be "typically allowed" to suddenly have a greater right to the kids/home in the event of marital breakdown?

Stanford

I never said that the Mother had "greater rights" to the kids/home, I said that Irish judges have always been biased in that direction, that doesn't make it right or fair.

The OP hasn't mentioned any children together, so I think its safe to presume they don't have any, which makes the issue of which parent gets to stay in the house after they separate irrelevant to their situation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118551938#Comment_118551938

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118551938#Comment_118551938

This is crazy. Like very many people I lived in many places growing up simply because of my father's job. Many others simply buy different homes when their financial circumstances change. This is very normal in the Ireland in which I live, most especially among upwardly mobile career-focused people. Who actually comes up with this crap which would condemn a father to the poverty of renting in Dublin because the kids might be "upset" if they have to move home? Jesus Christ almighty. Law reform cannot come soon enough to this backward, benighted State.

Stanford

Irish judges have always sought to cause minimal disruption to the kids of separating parents especially if they are young on the basis that kids are blameless in a marital breakdown. Typically the spouse with whom the kids normally reside gets to stay in the family home and that spouse buys out the other spouses share.