Transplants in Ireland

PalLimerick

Just seen on social media. A video from some Woman Barrister with a letter from Beaumont Hospital saying no Transplants to be performed on unvaccinated People. A quick Google search shows nothing about it. Anybody else see it?

If wrong forum please move.

Esel

Total guess: Maybe no organs will be harvested from unvaccinated dead donors?

astrofool

I'd say there's a policy that people have to be vaccinated (if they can be, some on the list wouldn't be able to have the vaccines) as post op they are going to be in a hospital with a high chance of being infected with the virus and would be highly at risk.

There are usually a number of conditions to getting a transplant that if broken, disqualifies the person from receiving it.

whippet

The solicitor who posted it Tracy O'Mahoney ... whom I'm only aware as she seems to be involved with every anti-mask, anti-vaccine, covid denial group going.

there is obviously a medial reason if there is a decision to suspend transplants to those who can't receive a vaccine due to obvious immunosuppressant reasons.

but the angle she is is trying to put out is along the lines of medial discrimination.

don't trust what you read on social media !

Humour Me

Transplant recipients have to take immunosuppressants to reduce the risk that the transplanted organ is rejected. Even with the vaccine, COVID could make them very ill. If it’s true, the transplant unit are probably balancing the COVID risk to the patient against the risk they don’t have a transplant.

xzanti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777639#Comment_117777639

What is a "covid denier"? I keep hearing this phrase. Particularly on Boards.

Does it mean they don't believe that it's real or that they just don't believe that the restrictions are necessary? Or that maybe there are alternative ways to treat the illness which are being supressed?

Genuine question.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782721#Comment_117782721

Simply .. in my opinion anyone who denies the actual facts

xzanti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782727#Comment_117782727

Can you tell me where you get your facts from?

Again, I'm genuinely curious.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782737#Comment_117782737

Mainly my wife who is a pharmaceutical scientist working in the industry for about 20 odd years and who has access to a lot of clinical data and facts.

xzanti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782768#Comment_117782768

I see.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782774#Comment_117782774

Not sure what that means .. but anyway .. back on topic .. o'mahony seems to be quoted a lot by the anti-everything crowd

bigmac3

Dead right, there’s no way anyone who isn’t vaccinated should be anywhere near the transplant ward.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782820#Comment_117782820

But try tell that to the likes of the clowns you see picketing pubs cos they can't get a pint indoors !!

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782820#Comment_117782820

Funny you should say that when people who are vaccinated are still picking up covid

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783003#Comment_117783003

By and large with a much less severe dose .. vaccines were only ever going to be approx 90% effective anyway .. but even though we have circa 2000 cases per day the hospitalisation Number are no where near what they were went we had similar numbers before the vaccinations.

bigmac3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783003#Comment_117783003

Funny you should say that, there’s much less chance of getting it or having severe symptoms if you’re vaccinated.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783055#Comment_117783055

Depends on your age

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783069#Comment_117783069

Yep .. depends on a lot of things. A few residents in my mam's nursing home have contracted it but no severe symptoms thankfully .. whereby this time last year it would have been catastrophic

bigmac3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783069#Comment_117783069

Yeah sure might as well forget the vaccine and try bleach

If your on the transplant list I'd say taking the vaccine is the least of your worries.

whippet

Like a flash Gilroy is all over this one .. filming outside Beaumont hospital. Now it seems the self learned legal and constitutional expert has further improved on his epidemiology qualifications and is an expert in immunology... he is amazing

HerrKapitan

I will be opting out of donating for as long as this is in place..

francois

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783251#Comment_117783251

He's the embodiment of Dunning-Krueger

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783256#Comment_117783256

That is one of the stupider replies I've seen on here, but at the risk of dumbing down further.

Were you planning to donate? Do you understand the risk of rejection and being immune suppressed post surgery and that a post transplant patient is probably in the most vulnerable category for all diseases and would have a high risk of death from COVID-19 resulting in a wasted donation that could have gone to someone else?

It’s about risk minimisation and positive outcome maximisation, with very finite resources (scarce, donated organs and extremely high dependency surgical intervention.)

The vaccines may not be 100% effective, but they do have very significant positive impacts and they also reduce transmission, they don’t eliminate it, but they reduce it very measurably.

Nothing in medicine is about 100% vs 0% success rates. It’s not an exact science in that regard and never claims to be. Almost all treatments live within a range of probabilities and risk/benefit calculations.

There are also huge risks with COVID in a transplant unit, for multiple patients. So they will do everything they can to keep it out.

Honestly, fed up to the back teeth with these conspiracy theories. Do they really think transplant doctors are trying to deny access to manipulate the general public?! On what planet does that make any sense?!

It’s actually insulting. I’ve no involvement in medicine but you’ve people working extremely hard to save and prolong others’ lives and this is the utter gobbledygook garbage being thrown at them.

The 2020s is a very weird era.

xzanti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782782#Comment_117782782

It means "I see". I acknowledge your reply. Message received. Ten-four.

HerrKapitan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784391#Comment_117784391

Yes and yes. I'll opt back in once the rule is lifted and can be confident that it wouldn't be reintroduced.

Anyone who doesn't agree with segregation should opt out too.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783256#Comment_117783256

Decent of you. Good man. Keep it up. 🤪

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785729#Comment_117785729

So you fully understand the high risk of death for immuno-compromised transplant patients, yet will be happy to donate one of your organs to someone who takes that high risk vs. someone who lessens that risk by getting vaccinated.

Would you be happy to donate your liver to an alcoholic or a lung to a smoker?

HerrKapitan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785884#Comment_117785884

I would be happy to have donated it to the first on the list, no matter who, as long as the list is inclusive.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785976#Comment_117785976

Grand so, the transplant list isn't generally ordered by waiting time, it's also ordered by those who are better candidates for transplant due to looking after their health, so the non-smoker, vaccinated person will always be ahead of the smoking unvaccinated person, people can move up the list by living healthily and move down the list if they don't.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785976#Comment_117785976

You might be waiting a while. These lists are never inclusive and there are always conditions that need to be reached. If you were under the impression that this wasn't the case, somebody's lying to you and you're believing them.

HerrKapitan

That is fine if the list would self govern like that.

Then what are the reasonings of the ban if the unvaccinated cannot hinder the best candidate?

Is it impossible that a scenario could arise where the best available candidate could be unvaccinated?

What's next, vaccination stamps on our car so paramedics can treat the vaccinated first at a RTA.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786079#Comment_117786079

It's very unlikely that someone would be unvaccinated and be top of the transplant list, donations are a very scarce commodity where demand far far outstrips supply.

This isn't really an issue for anyone on the transplant list, there is all sorts of medicines they have to take both in prep for the procedure and then afterwards, I doubt most would give it a second thought vs. the prospect of getting an organ that lets them keep on living.

anndub

Makes perfect sense. When doctors weigh up who gets on the list they calculate the likelihood the person will get the value out of the organ. They aren't going to transplant organs into people they think are going to die in the next six months when there are fifty other people waiting on the same organ. If a recipient catches Covid they most likely will die unless vaccinated

HerrKapitan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786121#Comment_117786121

With all this in mind I'm failing to see the benefit of putting a ban in place, other than contributing to the cohesion effort.

Does the flu jab have a similar ban?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783256#Comment_117783256

Were you even going to donate in the first place?

HerrKapitan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786193#Comment_117786193

Yes, I have the 115 code on my licence.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786202#Comment_117786202

And what point would you be making by not donating your organs?

Like if it came down to it and you were croaking they'll just look at your bio and if it's no to donation then that's that, it not like they'll hold an enquiry into covid or vaccines or something!

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786244#Comment_117786244

He gets the satisfaction of knowing he wont posthumously help anyone.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786249#Comment_117786249

People are strange

HerrKapitan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786244#Comment_117786244

If unvaccinated people can't avail, they may feel like not donating, and justifiably so in my opinion. Then the stats can show their decision to ban has an effect of less donors.

In my case, I am vaccinated but I don't feel like contributing to something I think is wrong. I know it's not going to make a difference but I have my principles.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786273#Comment_117786273

If you get an organ transplant, you are by default immunocompromised. So getting a transplant from a person that is potentially carrying the virus when they die is risky. So yep a pretty fair ban.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786273#Comment_117786273

Your logic is flawed, you think the process is unjust so won't donate.

That's like saying you won't help an injured person at the scene of a car crash... because men have to pay higher car insurance than women!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785729#Comment_117785729

Well, im never going to donate my organs... None of this opting back in.

Ps. I wouldn't be accepted due to long term use of blood thinners 😁

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787543#Comment_117787543

Even for corneas ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790670#Comment_117790670

As far as I know everything is excluded

astrofool

See Beaumont has said they won't take anyone off the list but will still organise the list by risk (i.e. it's unlikely an unvaccinated person will get to the top of the list anyway, but they are on it). The hospital only really cares about saving people.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117791014#Comment_117791014

the original letter was an opinion by two senior ranked people in the hospital not official policy

I suspect it was policy until the backlash.

The fact those two would have such an abhorrent opinion and still be in those position is worrying.

what happened to the "do not harm" or even the general principle of treating all patients.

those two (Miss Dilly Little and Dr Colm Magee) are c8nts. there is no other word.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792301#Comment_117792301

The "do not harm" also covers people who aren't following all medical advice before they get the transplant, the doctors job is to give the transplant to the person most likely to survive the very risky operation, by putting someone in that position without taking the vaccine, they are breaking the "do not harm" mandate they have as they increase the risk of death even more.

The policy is still there, they're just putting the unvaccinated (who can but won't get it) on the list, but at the end which effectively means they won't get a transplant till post pandemic or we somehow have an excess supply of organs.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792349#Comment_117792349

a covid vaccine, aye or nay, would not be high on the list of important things to survive a transplant.

the persons physical condition would be of the greatest importance as to the risk of surviving? not this newly fangled vaccine? surely?

a few months ago they were happy to transplant when there was no vaccine , the operations aren't suddenly more dangerous

in fact 123 successful kidney transplants in 2020 in Beaumont alone despite covid when there was no vaccine. from their own blurb.

It's grandstanding by two c8nts ,drunk on their power of life and death of people. Covid has brought out the authoritarian nature in so many , it's terrible to see.