Being made to work without a break!

Brid Hegarty

There's a particular job on site where I work that involves the security guard has to work without any break. It involves raising and lowering a barrier to leave trucks into a factory. I had some exposure at the shift and was told that the guys from the main office never bother covering for their break. They're supposed to supposed but that they make it so difficult for them to get it that they don't bother trying. Some of the workers who are supposed to cover are old and set in their ways, and they couldn't be bothered. Unlike other security posts on site, this is a one man job so it's is not possible to come and go as you please. 

A few months ago I explained that I wouldn't be able to do it when I got wind that the main guy who works it was going on holidays. I did this by email to the operations manager and branch manager, letting them know that I would not be willing to work that shift unless a break was organised in advance. But I've recently found out that I'm rostered for this location next week. I emailed the branch manager (who made the roster) to tell her that I'm refusing to work it. She emailed back to say:

"Please explain your mail to me that you ware refusing to work your rostered shifts? You are employed by Blank to work at Blank and therefore you will be rostered within all posts on site and your contact is flexible."

I followed with this:

"My contract also entitles me to a one hour break. To work [said shift] I would need to first witness other staff at this post receiving coverage (without difficulty) from other staff for a 1 hour break. It would not look good for (Company name) if I left my post without any coverage. I did explain this before."

That last email was around 10 this morning and she hasn't responded since. She's on holidays next week, so the only chance she'd have to respond to me would be tomorrow. Funny to think she's going on holidays while we're so understaffed on site most of us are forbidden from taking our holidays. The three shifts I'm on to work are Tues to Thurs of next week. I suppose I should really finished off my mail by saying that unless I hear back from her, I will assume those as days off.

It is of course illegal to do this, and they are turning a blind eye to it. I'm wondering if any others have had similar experiences to this? I am willing to walk from this job if it comes to it. These managers show up on site less than once a week and have very little involvement. Any advice?

Mrs OBumble

Pick up the telephone and talk to the manager.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117745467#Comment_117745467

Nope, keep everything in writing, documented in writing keeps them accountable.

dont ‘ask’ to take a break.

Send an email worded along the lines of..

”to clarify I shall be in order for both myself and the company to be in compliance with both Organization Of Working Time 1997 Rest breaks and rest periods and... The Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005...... and therefore for my wellbeing I am informing you that I will be taking breaks as per legislation to ensure this compliance and my wellbeing daily without exception ... please ensure whatever relevant cover is available at xx:xx”.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117745551#Comment_117745551

Thanks Stumms,

I could do that. However I did inform management that I wouldn't do that shift unless they had organised it in advance. I should not have the worry about whether it will or won't be hassle of getting coverage. I could well refuse to show up as I'm considering.

And if that involves them giving me hassle with my final pay, then I might have to lawyer up.

What does the guard do between trucks arriving? If nothing or hanging around, those breaks add up a lot more than the legally entitled ones I'd imagine.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751326#Comment_117751326

But a break is a break.

If I'm sitting at a seat opening and closing a door for two minutes an hour that does not mean that I'm on a break for 58 minutes in the hour.

Being on a break means something else, it may also mean being physically somewhere else and doing something else not related to the job, like eating, or going for a walk.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751326#Comment_117751326

I hate "if" arguments!

For the sake of this post it wasn't necessary to describe the job in full.

Brid Hegarty

I'm still considering not showing up, and they'll have to work a 60 hour week without me there.

Swaine

You can't work off the assumption a law will be broken because of others experiences. If you don't go in, the company can discipline you. You need to do your job, take the break as legally allowed then wait for the kickback.

Don't not turn up, this leaves you open to all sorts.

ptyloch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751326#Comment_117751326

The guard is available to open the barrier at all of those times, they are not his break times, despite him not doing anything at the time he is still 'on duty' to do the work.

Break time allows him to 'take a break' from fulfilling his duties.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751866#Comment_117751866

By salonfire’s argument and logic if an employee has 40 minutes downtime over their first 4 hours of work... 10 minutes an hour they should only be of the ability to take a 20 minute lunch break...right... gladly the law as unfavorable as it is towards employees doesn’t exactly go that far to allow skullduggery of that magnitude :).

any smokers I know including management will take an average of two AM smoke breaks... including coffee / tea making 35-40 minutes of extra breaks, maybe they too need their lunches curtailed on this basis... they are ‘choosing’ extra breaks as opposed to downtime.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751814#Comment_117751814

Can you just take your lunch break at your normal time? Its not your job to organise cover, thats for management or whoever draws up the roster.

Check your actual entitlement to breaks before doing anything.

Citizensinformation.ie - Work Breaks and Rest Periods

Some types of employment are exempt from or have different rules on breaks, including compensatory rest where you do not get a break.

Electric Sheep

Leave and get a grown up job.

C3PO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751980#Comment_117751980

This …. but I would email your manager and tell him that this is what you will be doing.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751848#Comment_117751848

What sort of trouble would that be? Withholding pay? I should have mentioned that I'm due to finish in three weeks.

Tell me how

OP, if you are due to finish in 3 weeks, why not do what you can to do your job in the meantime without creating any drama.

I'm not suggesting you don't take a break, but you recognize that you know what, if there's enough time to switch off, have a bite to eat etc 'while doing the job' for a couple of weeks, then you can live with that.

If there isn't enough time, then inform your line manager that you need to take a break and will be doing so.

Getting in to legalities of break entitlement, the Working Time act etc etc within 3 weeks of leaving and when its about a job that doesn't sound intense, sounds to me like someone looking to make a big deal out of something.

You may want a reference from this company or an opportunity to work there again in future, why burn bridges?

Also, I would add, it sounds like you are getting annoyed about something you have no experience of as haven't worked in this particular role yet and are only going by what someone else has told you the role has been like.

I'm not trying to make excuses for a company putting staff under undue pressure, or suggesting that employees should always accommodate them but I've little time for employees who think any inconvenience is illegal.

the_pen_turner

i dont see what the problem is. just email them that you will work x -y date doing that job and that you will be working 8-10, 10.15-1, 2-5pm.

if your job is to open the gate then leave it closed and go for your break.

your legally entitled to it . what are they going to do fire you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759107#Comment_117759107

If everyone bends over for companies then things will never get better for anyone.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759114#Comment_117759114

This is far from what is going on in Amazon or the likes where we hear of workers having to wear diapers due to being at risk of being reported for being gone from their station for too long were they to go to the bathroom.

It sounds like whoever is on this particular duty has a pretty light workload offset slightly by the fact that if they are not there, there might be an issue.

Again, bear in mind, they have no experience yet of what working in the role actually entails or how busy they may be.

Talking about quoting working time acts etc, when they know they are leaving in 3 weeks, and having not worked in the role at all is likely to burn any goodwill they have within the company.

If the company said ok, you have 30 minutes off every 4 hours, etc, etc, but instead of only being busy for a couple times an hour operating the barrier, we want you do do that, and fill the rest of your time with some other duty within the remit of your contract, which option would the OP rather?

I had experience of an employee refusing to accept a call from work on his personal phone while he was out of the office, his argument being, if you want to speak to me on the phone, then give me a phone. The same employee had no issue using the company's time and desk phone to make personal phone calls while at work. If you want things to be 100% by the book, then you can't complain if the company plays that game.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759107#Comment_117759107

What makes you think that it's not an 'intense' job? There's a whole load of paper work to it too.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759177#Comment_117759177

Your opening post.

xeresod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759113#Comment_117759113

Exactly, go for your break and leave the barrier open.

I worked for a security company and that's what we'd do if there was nobody to cover - and this would have been 25 years ago so probably before there was legislation mandating breaks!

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759157#Comment_117759157

i do have experience working it. I covered some fella for 2.5 hours while he went for his vaccine during the heat wave. I took off a layer of clothing due to the tin can of a cabin heating up so much, and some fcuker reported me for it.

The fella I was covering told some manager that I was doing a great job, and now they've shoved me there... for the favour I didn't have to do.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759181#Comment_117759181

That's your own ignorance.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759214#Comment_117759214

You're right. My bad. Clearly, they're lucky to have you and should do everything in their power to keep you happy for the next 3 weeks.

Brid Hegarty

Yeah, she emailed back to say:

You are to work yours shifts as scheduled at the Blank. You will be supported during breaks but it is not releasing you for a full 1hour, this can be broken out throughout the day and allowing for 30 minute lunch.

That's 30 mins for a 10.5 hour shift!? It's supposed to be 45 mins as far as I know.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763636#Comment_117763636

I think it's mean you're entitled to one 30 mins lunch break and the other 30 mins can be split to two 15 mins breaks (that's a usual practise). Have a look on to your contract ;)

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763688#Comment_117763688

It said allowing for 30 minutes... I think it's pretty clear that means 30 minutes total.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763709#Comment_117763709

That reads like more than one break throughout the day and the lunch break can only be 30 minutes

Yeah it definitely sounds to me that you’ll get the full 60 but only 30 in one go for lunch.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759006#Comment_117759006

Sure why not, it's not as if they need you in the future since you are leaving.... screw around with you for a while as a result of this and then pay up before it goes to the legal situation. If it's really worth spending your final few weeks plus a few more in conflict go for it.

Bass Reeves

OP this is a twelve hour shift how many hours are you paid for. These are the breaks during working hours.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/rest_periods_and_breaks.html#

I think you approached this l wrong from the start. You need to know how many hours you are paid for in the day.

Sonics2k

I worked in security doing these kinds of roles and shifts, and I know plenty of people who still work in it. This is extremely common behaviour in the job, especially if you're working alone on a site. On numerous occasions I was left waiting around for a mobile patrol van to show up to cover me for my lunch breaks, eventually I just got sick of it and would drive to the nearest shop to grab food and then come back. I'd always tell the site manager and they rarely gave a crap and understood.

The employer could halve the OP's salary and employ another gate-opener with the savings. The two of them can sit in the tin hut looking at one another while waiting for a lorry. At least the breaks would be covered.

dobman88

I did this job on a site before. I was only a labourer and the gate man was like yourself, complaining about his "entitlements" even though 90% of his day was spent doing nothing. The other 10% was opening and closing the barrier.

Eventually, the boss got so sick of him complaining, he gave me the job and the gate man was put labouring where he got his breaks on time, every time. He lasted 2 weeks before packing it in and I kept the handy number on the gate.

You come across as extremely naive and childish. Doing the gate to a site is one of the most handy jobs you'll ever work and you're whining about it.

Best of luck if you ever get a job that requires some effort.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765977#Comment_117765977

Except that would waste their time too. The branch manager would have to reveal her petty nature to the pay roll staff. And this company already wasted both our time when it's come to a previous pay issue I've had with this company.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777277#Comment_117777277

It's also one of the most degrading jobs! It's as if the reason the barrier doesn't have a motor is because it makes the worker feel more degraded.

You obviously worked it before the covid paper work came in.

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781139#Comment_117781139

Can you explain how its degrading? I didnt feel it was degrading at all tbh.

Yes, I worked it before covid but I'm now a delivery driver delivering to building sites so I have lots of interaction with security and gate men. And they all have a good system for their "paper work".

It's a couple of questions before they open the gate. Have you had covid. Have you been in contact with anyone that has had it. Have you been abroad recently. Have you had to isolate recently.

All fairly standard stuff and I've never been held up at the gate for more than 2mins.

You seem to be creating issues where there are none now.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781189#Comment_117781189

It's the lifting part of it that's sort of degrading. If the gate had a motor then maybe it wouldn't be. I know for a fact that the old timers at the security won't work it as they consider themselves above it.

There's probably a bit more to why I would find it degrading... in that I have a masters degree in one of the biosciences and was unsuccessful finding work with it. The very pharmaceutical company that I've been lifting the gate for, is the only one who never responded to any of my job applications over the years. And now here I am lifting the barrier for people that I am technically more qualified than.

a_squirrelman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812410#Comment_117812410

Life is tough. Most of us get on with it.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812410#Comment_117812410

You might not be as qualified and desirable as you believe to be if this is the only job you could get.

Good luck out there in the real world, you’ll come across more barriers than this one.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751326#Comment_117751326

LOL. I suppose firemen as shouldn't be paid unless they are attending a fire.

NickNickleby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815137#Comment_117815137

Not at all. "Attending a fire" . Nope, they should only be paid while squirting water on it.

Dang, where's the smilies ?

NickNickleby

On the one hand, the company is looking for a free ride when it comes to providing lunch break cover. But on the other hand, with the relatively undemanding nature of the job, isn't it just "swings and roundabouts" really. Found myself in similar situations over the years, but on balance it seemed to come out in my favour. But, having left school at 16, a couple of dead end jobs was a great encouragement to do some night school and move on (while still getting a wage - winner!).

qwerty13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812410#Comment_117812410

So you’re leaving in 3 weeks anyway, and you’ve a chip on your shoulder about this company. Unless you have a job secured in a completely unrelated field, I’d say suck it up. If you’re moving to a job where you’ll ever need this company as a reference, don’t shoot yourself in the foot for the sake of 3 weeks.

Why do you think you couldn’t secure a job anywhere connected with your Masters? Do others have more relevant qualifications? Do you think that you displayed a good attitude at your interviews? Is your CV well done and succinct? Do you come across as positive or as obstructive?

Unfortunately sometimes companies don’t reply to candidates who won’t be getting an interview. It’s not nice, or polite, but it happens - and isn’t unique to this company.

You can choose to call it degrading, but really, you’re looking down on those you believe to be less qualified than you. That’s not a nice attitude to have.

I am me123

It also depends on whether there is sufficient staff cover available to allow you to take a break.