Mná na hÉireann & elsewhere! Your input please!

JuanJose

So, almost 4 months ago my better half of 15+ years told me that she considered it would be best for me to return to my home country. That we're not having fun anymore (who has in the last 16 months?). That we've nothing in common (you don't spend years with someone without having much in common IMHO). So, just like that. Told in a cold, detached manner. Crash-bang-wallop.

My immediate inner thought? Nothing tallied within her behaviour to this point to give warning of what was coming. And I wasn't going to be bundled off to a destination just because someone else tells me to. She quickly adjusted that to suggest maybe I should move out to somewhere locally, that she needed "space."

One week later, having tried to make my love & affection for her known and without shots being fired (conversations between us remained calm & respectful always), I moved out of our rented accomodation still confused as to where this all came from, while reminding her that this could be good for us both, if she wished for it to be so.

Fast forward 10 days later. We meet for lunch, following which she provides another landmine. Sparks apparently flew between her & a swimming coach (him married with a kid) at a local gym more than two years previously. Alledgedly 'nothing happened' beyond some hugs. Messaging between the pair continued for two years until 9 months ago, at which point he announced that he wouldn't be leaving his wife & that kid number 2 was on the way, followed by a cutting off of all contact on his part. My gut feeling is that I would've been thrown to the kerb if he'd agreed to jump ship from his own marriage. Not a nice feeling.

She then also admitted to making a date to meet up with a new male social media contact - 10 years her junior, which she admitted to much disgust - a date made only 10 days prior to her dropping this bombshell on me (and right on the back of a girlfriends lunch no less, which provided the perfect alibi for her to raise no suspicions on my part). This turned out badly with this guy having groped her in an attempt to get her to come back to his place. Yeah. A first class pri*k.

Contact between us has been up & down but maintained. A few lunches have been had. She maintains that she doesn't have a sense of 'missing' our relationship. She hasn't apologised outright for her behaviour, steadfastly sticking to the mantra that "nothing happened". She could cull the relationship in a couple of sentences, but hasn't. I've prepared myself for that conclusion tbh. I've made it clear to her that I'm willing to fight to save what we had & could have again. I just feel that to let it all fall like a house of cards without even trying would be an injustice to our considerable length of time together. This relationship has been the only 'proper' relationship in both our lifetimes. A lot of water under the bridge, so much of it good however, as in everything, a recovery mission takes two to tango.

So, ladies (and anyone else too) if you wish to provide some pointers, what gives?

Why has she gone so far with the push-back while not truly bringing the curtain down on the relationship?

Why would anyone bury such out-of-character behaviour for as long as she did, knowing the damage it would cause?

Am I an idiot to be even attempting to steer her back towards me? At what point do you cut and run?

TIA / GRMA.

zoobizoo

She had an 'emotional' affair with the coach.

She dates another guy She knows is 10 years younger and met him on social media.

She tells you it's best for you to leave.

She tells you that you have nothing in common anymore.

Seems to me as if she has checked out of the relationship and if anything came her way that she liked that she'd jump at it and that would be easier if you were not around

As for telling you about the grope, it matters not what he did on the date. What was her motivation for telling you about it? Some might say to make you jealous but it might be more that she's moved into a "we're friends now zone and I can tell you things now that we're just good friends" because she needs you there for some things but not for a relationship.

She hasn't apologised which indicates her attitude to the whole thing. She feels justified in everything she's done.

YellowLead

I really don’t see how things could work if you did manage to persuade her to get back together with you. She has completely broken your trust. It sounds like she was trying to line up somebody else before leaving your relationship. An honest person would have told you they were feeling the spark was gone, you were drifting and asked you how you felt and given things a chance. Rather than a sudden bombshell of its over and for you to move out. How dare she tell you to move back to your original country!

Do you guys own a house together or was it renting? If you get back together her she will only do the same again. I know that after 15 years it’s usually worth trying to salvage but not based on the way she has behaved.

kiki smiling

She wants to have her cake and eat it too.

Its totally selfish of her to be sharing this info with you now, and all just to unburden herself and clear her conscience. It also seems she wants to keep you waiting in the wings in case nothing better comes along.

If I were you I would cut my losses, better to do it 15 years in than 50 years in. You will move on with your life for the better, I know its so difficult right now, but I'm sure this is for the best.

Be brave

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678008#Comment_117678008

I'm not sure how you got any of that from what he wrote. She wants him to leave the country, she thinks they've nothing in common, she doesn't miss their relationship, she's been seeing other people(the extent of which I imagine she's downplaying).

Save for telling him to feck off or ghosting him I'm not sure how clearer she can be that it's over and it's OP who's clinging onto very little here. I can't see anything game playing in her behaviour tbh.

And OP imo the point to cut and run has arrived to answer your question.

livia21

I would trust your gut feeling on this OP in that if the swimming coach had not of dumped her ..you would have been thrown to the curb.

TBH I think she has "pulled the curtain" on your relationship in a heartless manner but may enjoy having you trying to win her back as a boost to her ego.

It really annoys me that she seems to feel she has you at her beck and call..what was the point in telling you about the man she met online?

Personally I would not be contacting her to meet up for lunch and If she ask's you to meet up politely decline as you have prior arrangements..suggest another time that would suit.

The fecking nerve of her telling you you should got back to your own country tells me she has a vey high opinion of herself...How could you possibly be happy there without her in your life? is what she was saying there

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058201313/mna-na-heireann-elsewhere-your-input-please

you've had a lucky escape and you don't need to dwell on this anymore

ec18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058201313/mna-na-heireann-elsewhere-your-input-please

She essentially told you to go back where you came from. The relationship is over move on

JuanJose

"Seems to me as if she has checked out of the relationship"

Spooky @zoobizoo You used the exact term that was rolling in my head. Checked out. Would've been nice to have been told earlier. A lot earlier.

The motivation for telling me of the grope & the date? Dunno. She did admit that her girlfriends advised her that it would be best to come clean. Truth be told, I never bought her initial excuses/reasons for merely needing "space". They came so far from left field.

Can you be friends though having been messed around in such a manner? Just thinking out loud, not expecting you to have the answer!

Thanks for your opinion. Much appreciated.

@YellowLead Your definition of an honest person is on the money & strikes a chord. Her behaviour is so out of kilter with the person I thought I knew. It's that deception that kills you.

No house purchase involved, we were renting. Just as well really. Thanks for your honesty.

@kiki smiling Sometimes you need to hear these things outside of your own head. Thanks for your input and your words of direction/support.

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678181#Comment_117678181

Thanks for the answer to my question. Again, it helps to see it written down by someone else.

And, yes, you do begin to wonder if her confession to seeing other people was complete. I'm with you on that one.

Tork

I don't think this is behaviour confined to one gender - Fir na hÉireann are just as capable of this sort of thing. Like the others on this thread, I believe she has checked out of this relationship and is keeping an eye on what's out there. She hasn't just had one bloke on the side here, she has had two. Maybe more ,only she hasn't told you. Cheaters tend to admit to as little as they possibly can. She hasn't pulled the plug completely on the relationship because when that happens, it's going to get messy.

My advice to you is to quietly seek legal advice and find out what your rights are. Even if this relationship doesn't end in the near future, it's inevitable that it will. Better to be forearmed and know where you stand.

Big Bag of Chips

It's a long relationship to just walk away from. I understand your reluctance and your need to feel you're doing everything you can to save it. But it can only be saved if both of you want it. She doesn't.

She has had years of building up to this point. She has come to terms with the end of your relationship. She's ready for it. You've just been blind-sided with it. She has asked you to leave (the country). That's a pretty clear statement I'm afraid.

I think you need to stop meeting for lunches. It's not helping. It's keeping you hoping. Your gf has finished with you. She cheated on you during your relationship. She immediately arranged to meet up with someone else once she had you out the door. She's moved on. For your own sanity you need to too.

It might mean that you have to block communication from her for a while and force yourself to not make contact with her. Breaking up can be a messy, protracted, upsetting time for everyone. But the end result is ultimately always the same. You no longer are together as a couple.

Stop meeting up with her. Stop trying to convince her. Break contact for a while (a very long while). It will be easier for you in the long run.

volchitsa

Really sorry to hear this is happening to you, it must be horrible.

You don't mention children, but I wondered if that was how she met this coach? If so, you will have to try to maintain some sort of amicable relationship, for the children's sake. I don't think that's the same as trying to get her back though. Only she can do that, and if she doesn't want to, then having you making yourself available as the landing mat if other relationships don't work out only gives her more leeway to try that out IMO.

As for the idea of telling you to go back to your country of origin, that's frankly bizarre and possibly nasty. You've made a life here now, and one that doesn't depend entirely on her. If you don't have children, then of course that's a possibility, but only if you want to leave, not because she's withdrawn her permission for you to stay!

JuanJose

It really annoys me that she seems to feel she has you at her beck and call..what was the point in telling you about the man she met online?

To clear her conscience as @kiki smiling said - and floor me in the process? I honestly don't know. If it was part of a process to wipe the slate & build bridges, I could understand. But it evidently wasn't. Did it make her look foolish & impulsive? Certainly.

Personally I would not be contacting her to meet up for lunch and If she ask's you to meet up politely decline as you have prior arrangements..suggest another time that would suit.

I hear you. I plan to take a short trip home to visit family/friends soon anyway, if Covid is kept in check. It's been 18 months & counting.

The fecking nerve of her telling you you should got back to your own country tells me she has a vey high opinion of herself...How could you possibly be happy there without her in your life? is what she was saying there

Or that I'd be happier at home. But in my experience, you don't spend 10+ years away from your homeland if you're homesick or unhappy. Either way, it's no one's place to tell you where you should live.

Thanks for the reply @livia21 Posts such as yours prove that my hunches are on the right lines.

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678899#Comment_117678899

Agreed, Tork. This scenario can absolutely work both ways. Some Fir na hÉireann are probably more capable of this sort of thing but that's probably for another thread. I just emphasised my search for female input/opinion on this thread given that obviously I'm not one 😁

Thanks for your advice.

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678935#Comment_117678935

Ouch.

Now there's a reality check.

Did I want to read that? No.

Did I need to read that? Yes.

Wise words. Thanking you!

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678941#Comment_117678941

Thanks for your words. It's certainly an experience I didn't see coming, that's for sure.

You don't mention children, but I wondered if that was how she met this coach? If so, you will have to try to maintain some sort of amicable relationship, for the children's sake.

No, no children involved. Luckily, given the circumstances. Would've made a rough situation undoubtedly worse.

Good point also to avoid becoming a landing mat / safety net. That would only make a bad situation toxic.

And, no, I've no plans to return home permanently right now - despite what she might consider best for me!

volchitsa

I do actually know a few people who got back together after a "permanent" split, but TBH it's been the minority. I don't think having you at her beck and call is the best way for that to happen though. IMO it's probably best to bite the bullet, accept that it's over, and expect her to behave accordingly (no more lunches etc).

I think, going by the way she seems to have been setting up a new relationship before she finished with you, she's concerned about being on her own, and it's not your job to make that any easier for her.

If a future relationship goes wrong, and if she does decide she wants to get back with you (IF) then she has to make the running, otherwise you're just making yourself into her safety mat and she'll only do it again. (And I'm a woman, FWIW)

Sorry again if that's bad news. Break ups are never pleasant, especially after so long. Take care of yourself.

Big Bag of Chips

I think continuing to meet up with you is a two fold attempt

- an attempt to ease her own guilt and prove that you two can work through this split amicably and remain friends. She can then convince herself that you're OK with all her carry on

- an attempt, as others have mentioned, to keep you on standby in the case of her not finding someone else. Then she can always agree to try again and 'give you another chance'.

Don't allow yourself to be an option for her.

SunnySundays

Hi OP, please take off the rose tinted glasses!

Firstly, you can never save something that doesn't want to be saved!

She doesn't sound like a very nice person at all.

1. She told you to go back to your own country! The cheek of her. Do if you want but it's your choice not hers and frankly a very derogatory comment to make

2. She had an affair, emotional or otherwise and hit it from your a prolonged period. If a conversation ever happened about leaving his wife or not, then you can be pretty certain there was physical contact

3. She tells you about men she met since and what a terrible experience it was. Again how dare she use you for comfort/sympathy- she could share that horrible experience with a friend or the ex affair guy. Why you? Completely selfish of her

In summary, she is a liar, seems to lack empathy, respect and common decency. You don't need to put up with that crap and to be honest, you shouldn't want to. Cut her off completely & don't let her use you any longer for any reason.

There are plenty more mna in Eireann...sounds like you would be better of with one of them!

JuanJose

I think, going by the way she seems to have been setting up a new relationship before she finished with you, she's concerned about being on her own, and it's not your job to make that any easier for her.

Never thought of it like that. You may well have a point.

Sorry again if that's bad news. Break ups are never pleasant, especially after so long. Take care of yourself.

I will. Plenty of food for thought and very hard to disagree with your take on things. Thanks for your concern & words of advice @volchitsa

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679752#Comment_117679752

Neither option is very appealing, is it? And I've certainly unwittingly been on standby for too long as it is.

Hearing you loud & clear. Thanking you.

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679794#Comment_117679794

Hi @SunnySundays

Part forthright opinion, part reality check, right there.

The posts in reply today - yours included - have helped lift those rose-tinted glasses. At least it feels like I'm past the point where all of this felt like a death without the funeral, if that doesn't sound too weird. And 'Mná in Éireann' sounds better than 'fish in the sea' I suppose!

YellowLead

JuanJose you certainly are very articulate! And it’s always good when an OP stays on thread and engages.

Wishing you all the best with your entangling - stay strong!

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117680884#Comment_117680884

Nice of you to say so. People have been good enough to give me their read on a complex situation. It'd be rude of me not to appreciate their feedback, simple as, really. And it certainly is helping.

Being my first personal roadcrash, the detangling(?) of the entangle...ment(?) will take time but I guess Rome wasn't built in a day, eh?

GRMA.

YellowLead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117681993#Comment_117681993

Yep, that was supposed to say untangling, or detangling or whatever the correct term is :)

You've no children. That is the outstanding point. That is the basis of your freedom. You also don't own property together. Another massive plus on the freedom stakes. You haven't stated your age - if you're in your 30s or 40s without children or property you've a huge range of options. It is incomprehensible that you're remaining to boost her ego. It's quite possible to live until your 90s - 15 years is a drop. Plenty of relationships end after 15, 20, 30 and even more years. Life is too short.

She's clearly psychologically checked out of the relationship, just keeping you as an ego boost until she gets a replacement.

For the sake of your self-esteem, you need to take control. Plan your future now, and then you will have aims to keep spirits up. It is really important for your own psychological wellbeing not merely that you are going to break up with her, but that you know where you're going. Never mind the usual "poor me" stuff out of her on the day. Don't be beguiled by tears and the usual old sympathy-seeking stuff. Make a choice to be dignified and respectful, if only to have a clear conscious about it. It's over. Take charge. Empower yourself.

PS: Give the requisite notice to your landlord asap just so you won't lose your deposit. Keep rational. You're in charge now. And after so long being disempowered, it's a ineffable feeling. For a bit of inspiration, watch Trois couleurs: Blanc [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111507/]

Redderthanever

I'm really sorry that you're going through this- no one deserves being put through the ringer like that after a 15 year relationship. I'm glad she finally told you what has been going on but her admissions sound far too casual and conversational- like another poster suggested it almost seems like she's using you as a shoulder to cry on.. Does she not understand how hurtful this all is for you?! I feel you need to get more angry to be honest. You call her your 'better half' (just a term I know) but her behaviour was so disrespectful towards you and what you guys have/had together. Focus on yourself and what you need and want in life from now on, stop the lunches, the communication and the hoping she'll want to rebuild things. Even if you could trust her after this, having you around is not going to help her see what she has lost..

JuanJose

You've no children. That is the outstanding point. That is the basis of your freedom. You also don't own property together. Another massive plus on the freedom stakes. You haven't stated your age - if you're in your 30s or 40s without children or property you've a huge range of options. It is incomprehensible that you're remaining to boost her ego. It's quite possible to live until your 90s - 15 years is a drop. Plenty of relationships end after 15, 20, 30 and even more years. Life is too short.

I'll say this much for you - you know how to emphasise the positives! For the record, I'm a forty-something and, no, my age has never been a concern. Just as well really as I've enough other issues to disentangle.

Thanks for your advice. And the film tip 🙂

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117683311#Comment_117683311

"Does she not understand how hurtful this all is for you?"

A good question. She's used the term "sh!t happens" once, in a kind of philosophical kind of way (I think), which I had to pull her up on as this, to my mind, was a case of her having had at least some part to play in making sh!t happen rather than it just spontaneously being magicked out of thin air. Another one was "but nothing happened." Depends on how loose your definition of "nothing" is, I'd argue. In summary, there's been a fair effort to downplay her own behaviour rather than take responsability for it.

Has that surprised me? Absolutely.

Have I found the right term to describe it? Not yet.

"Even if you could trust her after this, having you around is not going to help her see what she has lost.."

A very good point.

Thanks muchly.

Neyite

Being dumped IS a bereavement of sorts. And in many cases it actually hurts more because the person who left, actively chose to leave you. In a bereavement it's mostly losing someone you love when neither of you want them to go. With a break up the plans and dreams of the future are gone, and very often it feels like the person who broke up with you isn't recognisable any more from the person you fell in love with. In your case it's a bereavement with a dollop of betrayal on top. It's grief, so let yourself have those moments of grief.

And as with bereavement, it's ok to temporarily avoid the triggers that make it worse. In this case, her. In time some of the now-painful memories will become fond ones maybe, but for now it's a bit too raw to dive right into friendship. Having been through many breakups and dumpings, I can tell you that the quickest way to get over someone is to go cold turkey. Cut all ways of contact. They can always be resumed when feelings subside and friendship can happen some months down the line if you want it to, but for now, you need to stop meeting & talking to her. She's not doing you any good. Bluntly, you can't get over someone if they are still hanging around. It pushes the reset button every time. Whether she's genuinely caring about you or keeping you as a back up option, neither is good for you.

Zak Flaps

Relationships run their course and people break up, it's just a fact.

But she's handled it like a c**t.

Run away from her as far as you can, she's poison.

Idle Passerby

I don't buy that nothing happened with the first guy. Why would someone feel the need to announce that they will not leave their wife to someone they hugged a few times and texted? They must have discussed the possibility of running off together at least. Would anyone have that conversation with someone they just hug?

So after this fell apart she sought out a new bit on the side. She only told you because it was a failure. So you'd have to assume if he'd been nice, shed still be seeing him and you'd still be blissfully unaware. My take would be she is actively looking for a new partner, she'd rather secure a new recruit before firing the old but since her interviews aren't going to plan she feels like your stopping her meeting someone. She sounds callous and incredibly selfish. I don't think there's any salvaging a relationship when one party has so little respect for it.

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737302#Comment_117737302

You end up torn. On the one hand, you don't want to add or receive any more hurt on top of what's already been caused but on the other hand, you end up wondering does she deserve to retain you as a friend out of all of this, never mind attempting a rebuild. Feelings, as you say, need time to subside. And absolutely agree with you - her behaviour is and has been so, so, SO out of character. I still grapple to comprehend it tbh. However I'm not the first to receive that hammer blow & I won't be the last.

When she dropped the news on me, I felt I'd blown our relationship (our communication on emotional wellbeing nosedived during the pandemic but we'd not once had a blazing row...just not in our nature, I guess. Like half the world, we were stuck in the Covid rat-trap & focussed on getting ourselves through it). But then she told me part 2 - the gory details, let's say - which blew the hinges off my search for my culpability in this (even though I'm sure I played my part in letting us drift). I maintain contact with her folks. They're truly cut up about it but don't know the full story.

Excellent post. Really helped so thank you.

Housefree

Dude she has been sleeping with these guys, don't be such a gobshite. Shes dripping the truth to you. Confront the first guy if you don't believe me. Have some self respect. Ghost her

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117745913#Comment_117745913

Hard to disagree with your take.

What I don't get is if your actions wreak havoc to such an extent as in this case, why would you go rushing - ok, 5 months after getting burnt by candidate number 1 - to cling onto the next pair of trousers that come your way (this messy first date with candidate number 2 was brought to you by Instagram, at his suggestion). Her brain was evidently fried. Take a time out FFS. I'm no psychologist but I get the sense of a mid-life crisis being at play in her life too. A few boxes could be ticked on that score but I honestly don't think she sees it & I'd probably get it with both barrels if I suggested it to her.

And supposedly, when the swimming coach decided to pull the plug, he admitted to having been "flattered" by her attention. If that doesn't leave you feeling about this big (small), I don't know what does.

What makes people do the things they do? Answers on a postcard.

seenitall

Hi OP,

too much useless rumination, too little letting go and moving on. I appreciate it was a long relationship and moving on is very, very difficult, but this is one of the usual points in anyone’s life where our true mettle shows. For the sake of your own wellbeing and sanity, you have to find the inner strength and the self-respect to realise you’ve been played by a selfish woman, and to consequently walk away. Cut contact as she will just carry on messing with your head otherwise; she’s got you right where she wants you, she’s living rent-free in your head right now! Once you’ve come to your senses, the enormity of her selfishness in playing with your emotions like she has been doing, will hit you like a ton of bricks and you will be angry; you’re just not there yet as you keep wasting time, ruminating on her callous ways, instead of dropping her like she deserves to be dropped. She certainly doesn’t deserve you as a a friend or anything else. She’s been deceitful, incosiderate of you, disrespectful to you. If you can’t see it now, you will very soon. Drop and go.

JuanJose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762515#Comment_117762515

Taken a while for the penny to drop, you're right. Need to issue a notice-to-quit for my headspace.

Thanks a lot for your post.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763177#Comment_117763177

No disrespect, but you keep saying this to every post and yet entertain alternative scenario ideas. No need to emphasise that the penny has dropped when it’s still hovering in mid air.

Yurt2

Cheaters are remarkably consistent in their behaviour. Yes, everyone is a unique snowflake but when it comes to infidelity most people behave in a consistent way:

• Minimizing the truth
• Minimizing their role in the betrayal (it just happened)
• Minimizing the betrayed partner's boundaries and emotional world
• Drip feeding of truth
• Admitting to the minimum of malfeasance to keep their self-image and reputation intact ("this is out of character behaviour for me, so it doesn't count" - when in fact the behaviour is central to their character and how they negotiate the world and relationships)

Cut and run. Nuke it from orbit just like Aliens. Yes relationships break down, but she's conspired to do it in one of the most repulsive ways possible, and she has no right to tell you to go back to where you're from - tell her to stick that up her rear end.