Will DAB / DAB+ ever be back in Ireland?

mrsdewinter

I guess I know the answer to this but why are DAB radios even on sale in Ireland? Another week, another set of offers from a budget German supermarket offering terrific deals on 2 DAB+ radios, only 1 of which seems to include an FM function.

Don't get me wrong: I seem to live in an FM shadow, so I would personally love if DAB were finally to take off.

But from everything that's been said here, the DAB ship has sailed, right?

TheBMG

I take it that the pirate FreeDAB operator is no longer on-air (in Dublin anyway)?

The British RAJARS now put DAB listening figures ahead of traditional AM/FM.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112546#Comment_121112546

A DAB+ or DAB radio is only realistic if you're living close to the border of NI or you are visiting the UK and other countries with DAB or DAB+ coverage frequently.

The "ship has sailed and now it's too late" is the common story in Ireland, - at the same time other countries are expanding DAB+ and or still in the process of rolling it out.

The RTE has financial issues, the ILR and commercial radios don't want it, and the end user / listener has turned to the internet and the cell phone for a good stream. FM is slowly going away, and Radio 4 as well as Radio 5 on AM will disapear even sooner from reception in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112652#Comment_121112652

There are no confirmed reports that FreeDAB is still on air in Dublin.

Yes the UK has way more DAB/DAB+ listening than traditional AM/FM, - in Switzerland DAB+ is even more listened to.

Explosive_Cornflake

The one thing that baffled me when DAB was a thing here, was the abysmyally low bitrate it was broadcast at. 32kbps for some if I remember.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113926#Comment_121113926

That's true for the UK, but it mainly concerns news and sports talk kind of content.

What you can really call abysmal is that they do DAB and music and mono. That's not exactly good for a new technology.

However what are the alternatives? Smooth radio and Absolute radio on an AM signal? The cost of transmition and the quality / reception prone to interference is even worse, - albeit the warm sound is really to be missed......

end of the road

the stations broadcasting in mono on DAB in the UK are using the old standard DAB which is mp2, that requires very high bitrates to sound reasonable full stop, never mind in stereo.

the reason is in some cases muxes not supporting DAB+ yet all though i believe that is changing, and still a lot of DAB only radios in use such that dispite the growth of DAB+ radios there is still apparently justification to continue with standard DAB for now.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114109#Comment_121114109

These DAB only radios with the old standard are sold at cheap prices, often at ASDA and so forth.

The majority of Brits doesn't seem to care what they buy. Pure and Roberts aren't my top choice anyway.

Sony makes better stuff, better chips, more sensitivity for reception, etc.... That's just my experience.

Andy From Sligo

haha a DAB radio sold in LIDL ... to a country that does not broadcast DAB/DAB+

waywill1966

That’s the only time dab will ever be in Ireland, the sets sold in German supermarkets 😂

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121161155#Comment_121161155

It's possibly only of interest for consumers living close to NI, or county Cavan. They seem to have full DAB / DAB+ coverage.

This radio also tunes into FM.

There may be many reasons why one in Ireland wants to buy a DAB / DAB+ radio, like frequent travel to France, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Belgium or Norway.

In many countries one can still buy AM radios but all AM transmitters have been turned off.

waywill1966

Arbeiten Sie für LIDL oder ALDI?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163056#Comment_121163056

Nain, I certainly don't.

corks finest

Roberts are tops

Andy From Sligo

So, the other issue without a nationwide DAB service is that I am finding the RDS (radio data service) sketchy on the existing FM services.

I took a punt on the Lidl radio ... it sets its time and date automatically from FM & DAB service and has an alarm clock function on it (only after the time has been set) . - I have nearly full bars of signal showing in the display . Put it on Today FM today and it would not set the time. - Tuned it into RTE Radio2 - an 'RDS' sign came up on the screen and the name of the station came up on screen and info of the song playing on the screen, but still the time was flashing and not setting its time - so then I tuned it to RTE Radio1 then the RDS sign came up and after nearly 20seconds of the time flashing the time set correctly. So it seems the RDS signal only works properly and fully on one radio station at the moment which is RTE Radio 1 .. the other stations must not be broadcasting the full RDS information on them no?

Am presuming if there was a DAB+ service the time setting (and station name and info) would work flawlessly and all the time , because it is digital and not analog FM ?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121181585#Comment_121181585

I would presume so. However there might be a difference between DAB and DAB+ on this as well? I'd be certain to say it would work flawlessly on DAB+ but maybe not on DAB?

I have no real experience with RDS so I can't really say.

I don't think DAB or DAB+ would be back soon in Ireland. For that to happen, the RTE would have to invest a bit, and the RTE is a bit short of funds these days. And the ILRs don't seem to want digital radio.

So for the time being you'd have to be content with the odd overspill from Northern Ireland.

Once they will see that listening figures and commercial revenue are dropping and they aren't reaching the audience anymore as FM offers less and less, than maybe that's a business case for DAB+? It'll be a bit harder then for those going "that ship has sailed" and "now it's too late" if Ireland was the last country in Europe left not having DAB+.

Andy From Sligo

When RTE run the show was it DAB or DAB+ ?

Does it have to be RTE nowdays to bring back DAB(DAB+) nationwide service? - can it not be a private firm get the licence for setting up a DAB service in the ROI ?

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191669#Comment_121191669

RTÉ ran DAB+ with a couple of DAB simulcasts on the same multiplex.

The people behind the current 8radio operation have made a submission to the relevant authority to re-visit the operation and licencing of DAB. All they seem to have received is a watery committal to set up a vague exploration of it.

FreeDAB used DAB+, in unlicenced multiplexes in a few urban centres around the country, but it seems to have fizzled out after a raid last year by Comreg, again due to unnecessarily burdensome hurdles around licencing.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192227#Comment_121192227

The interest of 8radio in DAB surprises me a bit. If there is only a watery committal by the authorities, I would say, DAB is politically not wanted in Ireland. At least at this point. Maybe that will change.

As far as I know, Portugal has no either DAB / DAB+ same as Finland. If there are any plans there, I don't know.

There is always the debate on whether a new technology is really not accpeted by the population, or it's strategically politically supressed.

In Ireland, I would guess, it's the latter, also considering how much the neighbouring country UK has DAB / DAB+ Digital radio.

kazoo106

It is simply a conditioning and top down policy to the staff of the established stations or groups, to constantly derade the technology on forums such as this - while their overlords derade it to the regulator.

Its a top down approach very much visible on boards with the same people always coming out with the same negative comments - but the thinking and fear is from 2010 - not 2023

Soon it will be irrelevant as we have allowed our radio to be dominated by large UK groups and most of thos arguements no longer stand as networking will probably become the norm in years to come

DAB would be a perfect place to make the "temporary" stations permanent - if only the section 71 nonsense was eliminated, things would thrive.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192580#Comment_121192580

From a technological point of view it's fairly easy and cost effective for a radio station to start broadcasting. Also the lower the overall cost, the less they'd have to worry about advertising sales figures.

Naturally existing market players don't like that, - or at least at this stage.

Once they realize that they don't reach any audience anymore as FM doesn't allow any growth they may change their minds. Just 4 FM stations for the RTE won't be enough in the future to satisfiy the listener, as taste in music has changed, - and the internet and the smartphone is the answer for many by now.

DAB+ might bring a new market, audience and generation back.

Antenna

"DAB would be a perfect place to make the "temporary" stations permanent"

Though perhaps there wouldn't be enthusiasm for the biggest yearly temporary station in particular becoming permanent all year round :) - Christmas FM

I see though that 'Heart Xmas' radio for Christmas 2023 has ALREADY become available on DAB+ in the UK (as well as online).

About 2 months early for the majority of people I think!

How to listen to Heart Xmas on Global Player, DAB radio and your smart speaker - Heart

RetroEncabulator

DAB took off in the U.K. because the BBC spent several years throwing huge non commercial money at it and spinning up services which created a demand for DAB radios and a market.

RTE tried, basically being the only major Irish player to have made any effort at all with the platform, but it doesn’t have to scale to sustain what BBC did.

The ILRs here had zero enthusiasm for the technology, put no money into it and quietly saw it as a threat to their market. In reality IP steaming and podcasting will be what is and will continue to take the audience.

If it was ever going to take off, it’s about 20 years too late. The boat has sailed. We’ll be struggling to keep even FM stations alive in a lot of places.

For most of us, EVERYTHING audio comes through our smartphones and that eco system. Car radios are probably the last bastion of FM and that will fade, particularly as CarPlay and Android Auto become absolutely ubiquitous and the car-phone interface become seamless for the majority of us.

dxhound2005

Some people eat a Christmas dinner every day. And in the internet age some "radio" stations are 24/7 365 Christmas.

https://radiofidelity.com/top-christmas-radio-stations-all-year-round/

kazoo106

Nagativity

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195736#Comment_121195736

"The boat / ship has sailed" and "Now it's too late" are all the shallow answers towards DAB / DAB+ in Ireland at a time when most countries in the EU are aiming for a full DAB+ coverage by 2030. So in Irish terms, I don't understand what is too late?

Most cars manufactured after 2020 do have DAB+ anyway.

One think you're correct at, is some FM stations will beginn to struggle. The transmission cost is just too high, room for growth doesn't exist on FM, it doesn't cater for todays audience as well anymore, no room for different music formats.

Also other small countries, of similar population size, and bigger and more challenging geography have implemented DAB+, like Norway for instance. So why can't Ireland.

Constant denial, constant negativity, constant "not it's too late / boat / ship sailed" atittude? Constant fear of changes in the market ( which are going to happen anyway )? Look at the radio market in Scotland or Northern Ireland? And yes, Bauer is already owning some FM stations in the Republic of Ireland.

And yes, I am predicting with the younger generation and with today's expectations of radio, many FM stations won't be economically feasible anymore by 2030.

It will be the ILRs who are so strongly against DAB+ who will be hit first.

end of the road

and not forgetting that those shallow answers are based on the fact that there is effectively a prohibition on the use of DAB anyway so they can't even be put to the test to be either disproven or even proven.

that is the issue here, after that everything else is a mute point.

RetroEncabulator

On what basis will "young people" (who are now about 50) suddenly tune into DAB+ anymore than they tune into FM?

To the average punter, DAB is just a 'band' on the radio. When it was on air, there was no content on it other than RTE trying to at least make some effort to fill up the space. The commercial sector did not come on board other than in a very minor way.

When the mini MUXes went on air all that was on them was weird religious stations.

On FM there's mostly a pile of rubbish - boring ILRs, predicable rotational playlists, DJ chatter and multiple religious stations in Cork for example : do we really need Life FM and Spirit? Seems a community of interest that's hugely over served. Why's there no sports station or something useful?

I honestly think linear broadcast radio is inevitably going to shrink much smaller than it is today. It won't be gone, but it will be far smaller.

You can't force commercial stations to launch services on DAB that they didn't want to run. The ad revenue just isn't there to make it work.

It's also rather pointless trying to get RTE to drive it. They're a small PSB that's in financial difficulties at present. They're not going to lash money into anything.

You could throw it open cheap and see what happens? The commentary here seems to be that loads of stations would suddenly come on board? Would they though? Are are we talking about a load of stations that amount to nothing more than a Spotify playlist of oldies or dance hits? It's not 1975 and people can and do get all of that kind of content from music apps and streamers.

The tech genuinely has moved on enormously and smartphones are far more ubiquitous now than FM radios,

90% of Irish adults had a smartphone in 2017. That's 6 years ago and that figure has increased, and basically anyone who doesn't have a smartphone is either very elderly or specifically doesn't want one. They're one of the most universally owned devices in the country and Ireland's uptake is amongst the highest on the planet and fast mobile broadband is cheap as chips. They are the primary media consumption device, radio no longer is.

You really might as well be trying to launch ISDN or sell Sky Movies subscriptions. The media consumption landscape has changed far more radically than almost at any time since the dawn of broadcasting.

The comparison with the UK is just not there. BBC began DAB tests in 1990, 33 years ago. They were on air in a big way by the late 1990s and the platform became very established at a time before the internet was capable of really streaming audio at anything like a competitive price. Home broadband only became mainstream from about the early 2000s onwards and if you go back to the early 2000s, 3G mobiles had only hit the streets in 2003/2004, and the technology was too slow and far too expensive to support streaming or massive downloads.

Devices were clunky, media players were in their infancy and so on. Everything has changed since then and we're really not in the same market.

Andy From Sligo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121181585#Comment_121181585

Took the radio back to Lidl , got a refund - was getting all wrong signals from the FM RDS signal and I was thinking of using it as a clock radio but not if its going to muck about with setting the time incorrectly. Also told them it wouldnt pick up any DAB signals so pointless in that respect (I knew it wouldnt pick up DAB anyway) - took it back no quibble.

Ireland is bad on this - wont give us DAB (DAB+) and the RDS FM signal / service is sketchy , and even some of the FM radio stations are very weak and then you get shushy or other interference and have to press the 'mono' switch . Its like a second rate country really when it comes to radio especially in rural Ireland (i dare say it is better in the towns and the nearer you are to Dublin) I only also realised how shoddy the signal is on FM because the new radio from lidl had those 'signal bars' like you get on mobile phones on the top bar, and even with the aerial fully extended and radio placed near the window I was not getting full bars lit on some stations

end of the road

that's the whole point, nobody is forcing anyone to launch anything, but the regulator decided to prevent anyone from using it on a full time basis, and refused to implement a proper, reasonable cost regulatory model of operation, for which there isn't and never was any justification.

the minny muxes, like the original commercial licenses, were trial licenses of short duration with a very high cost and no guarantee of renewal, so it's unfair to try and compare them to a proper operational environment, not to mention you probably wouldn't get one of those licenses now anyway.

not an environment suitable for the certainty required for doing radio, there is a reason for the 10 year and up license terms for the fm stations after all as an example.

RetroEncabulator

The regulatory environment's way over the top, that's for sure and will probably play a key role in killing off Irish radio entirely as the whole thing will move online.

You can't keep burdening the local industry with endless regs which don't and can't apply to their direct competitors online. They've already got much higher overheads.

In the early days of ILRs and commercial radio, those licences were a licence to print money in the sense that there was huge ad sales. That's no longer the case and the cost of licensing isn't reflective of the revenue generation. It's too burdensome and the level of regulation is bordering on the ridiculous.