Dun Laoghaire Thread. No traffic, commuting, transport chat.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518649#Comment_120518649

Absolutely, great place to live.

I wonder what kind of a deal DLRCC managed to negotiate with the investor?????

Viscount Aggro

How are they lucky? They will never own anything.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522303#Comment_120522303

That's a very broad and sweeping statement. Care to elaborate?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522303#Comment_120522303

They and the children will effectively own it. They’ll never have to leave and will never pay more than 15% of their income on rent.

theyll not have to pay LPT , management fees. They are very lucky. Effective ownership without the headaches

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522303#Comment_120522303

Are you suggesting ownership is some sort of right or entitlement?

Because it isn't. Ownership is a consequence of effort. If you want to own in a high value area, qualify yourself for a job or system of investment that returns the resources for you to do so.

My wife and I own our own home, under a dwindling mortgage at any rate. It's nice and in a peaceful and well amenitied area, but it's not a big detached house in Monkstown, because neither of us have the kind of jobs to afford that, because we didn't have the smarts / drive / inclination to study that intensely or that long or work the kind of hours necessary to make it happen. We chose to balance our lives differently.

There is no luck, only life and the decisions we make.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524289#Comment_120524289

Unbelievably smug post.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524289#Comment_120524289

Check your privilege

FrattonFred

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524289#Comment_120524289

And when you die, your offsprings reward for having pragmatic parents, is that they get to pay tax on the fruits of your hard efforts, so others can continue to freeload off the state.

I'm pretty much in the same position as you, but I have started to wonder if the accusations of being "Smug" should actually be "Mug"

Blut2

If you're that jealous of the 'freeloaders' nobody is stopping you from giving up work to live on 210euro a week, and spending years on a waiting list for a council house.

I'd personally think actually having disposable income, and choice in where I live, is worth the working and paying taxes. But you do you.

Its just pretty ridiculous to complain about people doing something thats just as viable an option for you if you want it, but that you decide not to because it is actually in reality a way worse quality of life that very few people voluntarily choose.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526671#Comment_120526671

Soft defelction reply.

Plenty of people coming from social housing backgrounds etc that do well for themselves if they work hard and focus.

I know 2 directors in private companies that grew up in council estates and didnt go to college.

Also, you dont know the posters background.

They may have come from a poor upbringing but then worked hard to get where they are.

Check your concious bias.

BlueSkyDreams

Its dissapointing that DLR are renting the Butteryard Apartments instead of buying them. (or even better, building them. Remember when councils used to do that?)

Although the tenants will pay nominal rents as another poster said and are secure for 25 yrs, once the period elapses the fund can sell the property and the tenants are out on their ears.

Also, i expect anyone earning above the social welfare limit will not qualify for access to these homes.

So many people caught in the middle that work full time and earn too much for social and too little to rent or buy privately.

This group dont seem to be championed by anyone, but still pay their taxes to fund the social housing that they cant access, but others who contribute less, can access.

This kind of rental agreement is such a poor use of tax payers money.

How much are we paying the funds annually and i expect that DLR will also be liable for all upkeep & maintenance as well.

If the council are going to spend this kind of money, buy the complex so we have an asset.

Dont rent and cover all costs for 25 yrs and then hand it all back to the fund.

Ww simply couldnt be more wasteful with tax payers money

Blut2

It is pretty horrendous that they didn't just outright buy the Butteryard apartments (or various others like them). Previously the argument given to justify these long term leases instead of outright purchases was it gave councils access to more housing with less upfront costs, at a time when funding was an issue. Which you could argue may have had some, if questionable, merit in a housing crisis.

But given we now know the government has €1bn+ of unspent money in the housing budget that argument completely falls apart. Theres absolutely no justification to lease complexes like this for 25 years instead of buying them outright when the state has the cash sitting there to spend.

Its a horrendous waste of taxpayer money to pay sky high rents for the lease term with nothing to show for it at the end. Better to just build, or at least buy outright, the asset.

Thats Fine Gael driven policy though - no social housing expansion at all costs, even when it ends up costing the state / tax payers more in the long run...

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527737#Comment_120527737

I suspect you're probably correct and value for taxpayers money is not a consideration for the council.

I'd love to find out the details of the deal, it may be a requirement that the investor who bought the complex has to manage and maintain it over the 25 years.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527737#Comment_120527737

100%.

It couldnt be a more wasteful, short term strategy.

And they have the money to buy now!

Its frustrating enough that they dont build their own homes, but then to steal homes from middle income workers, and then to not even purchase said homes so we have an asset to show for it, along with long term security for tenants, is galling.

Some of the problem is governmental targets.

DLR will have a social housing list and they are trying to reduce it.

The fund wont sell the apartments, so DLR offer to rent them all and pay the full maintenance etc for the next 25 yrs.

DLR has now reduced its social list by 100 people. High Fives all round!

But DLR should be serving ALL the members of its community. Not just no and low earners.

The forgotten group are the middle income earners, teachers, nurses etc, who do not qualify for these apartments because they earn too much, but dont earn enough to rent privately.

Its a lose lose on every level for them.

They see the apartments going up in their area and there is a chance of a home.

Only for it to be taken away from them by the very council employed to serve them.

Social housing is not equitable.

It doesnt provide homes for everyone, just a small cohort of the population.

But that cohort are the only ones that are on a prioritised list.

Therein lies a problem.

Tabnabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529403#Comment_120529403

Let me introduce you to the where your so called forgotten group of middle income earners can get LA assistance to buy a new home.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/help_with_buying_a_home/local_authority_affordable_purchase_scheme.html

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120530825#Comment_120530825

The homes are to rent. Not to buy.

So how does the forgotten group qualify for them?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527283#Comment_120527283

Let’s be honest it’s not 210 a week. Add on HAP, GP Card etc and other benefits.

Tabnabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532019#Comment_120532019

Home ownership is demonstrably better than renting. The fact that the LA has a scheme to aid middle income earners affordably purchase their own homes shows your view about selective availability of assistance for accommodation to be a moot point.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532283#Comment_120532283

Er, no it doesnt.

The apartments i referenced are all Rental only.

New home Sales policy is F**k all to do with Rental policy.

So your point is moot.

How many new build apartment complexes in Dublin have you seen go up for sale in the last few years?

How many have you seen go up for Rental only? Significantly more.

Help to Buy is a good thing, agreed. But the vast majority of new apartment stock is rental only and the middle income group are locked out of access to these developments.

My point is that when the councils rent out a complex like the Butteryard, they shouldnt exclude people earning middle income salaries.

Why couldnt they, for instance, provide 50% social housing and 50% cost rental - with the middle income earners qualifying for cost rental.

Those middle income earners are paying more in tax than the social tenants, but are effectlvley locked out of any rental schemes, private or public, bar house shares.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526671#Comment_120526671

Privilege? **** you.

My Dad wore overalls for 45 years and I got to go to University from his overtime savings, my mother's care and advice and my own hard work.

Nobody deserves to be handed anything and nothing was handed to me or my family.

Check your pink credentials, they are very unedifying.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526978#Comment_120526978

Of course it is, but we do it anyway. I do it because I like this Country for all its flaws and I do it with my eyes like open.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532972#Comment_120532972

Opening up social / cost housing to people other than long term social welfare recipients also has two other pretty major positives, even aside from just helping those people in question - 1) it prevents ghettoisation, reducing any likelihood of anti-social behaviour and 2) it reduces the stigma of social housing, and makes it less of an issue for people complaining about "dole merchants getting free houses" etc - because it becomes a wider spectrum of society who get them.

This is whats done in plenty of other societies around the world and it works fantastically. In Vienna 60% of the population lives in government housing. Theres no reason we couldn't achieve the same here if the government decided to actually build housing.

The solution to the unfairness of only the poorest 5% of society being eligible for social housing and the middle classes not is not to remove the option from those people, its to expand access to middle class people. Young Gardai, teachers, nurses etc all earning less than 40k should all be in government subsidised housing.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120533219#Comment_120533219

exactly. Thats my point.

Apportion part of the complex to mid income earners so that they also have access to property.

They cant afford 2k a month for a 1 bed apartment plus bills etc.

And i agree, it helps reduce the ghettoisation of social housing if we enable a mixed economic residency in the complex.

Its very performative of the govt to only champion and prioritise social welfare recipients, just because they are on a housing list.

But a 30yo teacher still living with her parents doesnt get a look in, while 30yo single mum with 2 kids, who contributes nothing, gets a 2.5k pm 2 bed apartment in Blackrock.

its just nuts.

Teacher ends up emigrating so she can finally have her own independence.

We keep paying for Shazza, Keanu and Kaylee to live in an apartment someone on 70k a year couldnt afford.

dublinman1990

Well done to the Gardaí for catching this a**hole.

http://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2023/0429/1379921-dublin-raid/

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120537841#Comment_120537841

Seems to have plenty of previous for this type of thuggery.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/uknews/man-charged-over-armed-robbery-of-south-dublin-bookmaker-s-this-weekend/ar-AA1aAODv?li=BBr5MK2

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543433#Comment_120543433

Robbed a shop at knifepoint 6 months ago it seems.

Quelle Suprise, he isnt in jail and then gets arrested in relation to another 2 robberies over the weekend.

How long until the next arrest?

Whats the point of judges again?

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543534#Comment_120543534

And represented by a barrister no less on a bank holiday Monday. Great country we live in.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-gets-5-years-for-robbing-boy-1.113707

İt seems to be a vocation.

Mav11

Seems like DLRCOCO are determined to do away with outside dining and provide more parking spaces for cars:

https://www.dublinlive.ie/whats-on/food-drink-news/dublin-pizzeria-forced-close-outdoor-26873261

and

That will certainly improve the ambience of the area over the summer.😣

Larbre34

It's not the difference between the place closing or not ffs, its only the return to fully indoor dining which is perfectly. He can serve his loyal base perfectly well in his dining room.

Those parking spaces are there to serve all the businesses in Foxrock and I'm sure that what the local push had been.

Typical DublinLive bullshyt story out of nothing.