Covid vaccine whilst pregnant

Augustduck

I do not want to get the vaccine while pregnant, I am currently 4 months, I am due in early January. I never got flu jab etc with previous pregnancies as I do not want to interfere with my body in any way if possible when it is making a baby. I would get the vaccine no problem if i was not pregnant. My babies have all had all their vaccines so i am in no way an 'anti vaxer'. I am just not comfortable with the idea of this vaccine passing through the placenta with not enough time to have passed for research to say there is absolutely no effect on baby long term-because not enough time has passes for this to be certain. I am really torn what to do tbh. I feel as though I could continue shielding, social distancing and sanitising so that I can avoid coming into contact with the virus, I have not caught it to date and with the vaccines rising, I am sure after another month numbers will drop again and cases should be lowish for the rest of the year. I have opted for a home birth so my ante natal visits are mostly in my home and i have little contact with hospitals. Any thoughts or personal experiences?

Seanergy

"I am sure after another month numbers will drop again and cases should be lowish for the rest of the year."

Love the staying positive attitude but how can you be sure of that?

Surely all indicators are suggesting were caught in the shadow of Briain going for herd... case numbers are only going to keep rising.

Jane1012

I’m 38 weeks pregnant and I have had both doses, I’m very much for everyone’s right to choose but your reasoning is flawed. Nobody has gotten Covid until they get Covid, with things going back to normal there’s no way to live in a complete bubble. The impact of Covid on an unborn baby can be detrimental and unfortunately has resulted in many women in ICU and placentas failing which has led to stillbirths or premature births in some, A recent UK stat showed that 200 pregnant women were admitted to hospital with Covid over the past 2 weeks, 20 ended up in ICU. All these women were not vaccinated.

However if you don’t even get the flu vaccine, which is extremely important when pregnant and which there have been years of studies on then let’s face it you will never get the Covid vaccine while pregnant so im not really sure what the point of your post is….

Former Former Former

I can understand your concern.

However, your assumption that cases will drop is very optimistic, to the point of being unrealistic. Cases are going to go up a LOT before they start falling. And pregnant women are at high risk of serious illness and premature birth if you do get infected.

That is not to scare you. If you choose not to get vaccinated, I would say that you need to get really, really serious about shielding and to be really careful about only mixing with vaccinated people. You already have other kids so if they're in creche or school, this is a risk you cannot control.

Current evidence is that the vaccine does not cross the placenta. That's really important. And hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of pregnant women have already been vaccinated around the world. It's too early to say for certain that there are no effects but early indications are good.

It's a horrible situation to be in if you're not comfortable with it. All I can really recommend is that you do as much reading up as possible but from reputable sources and make an informed choice that you can live with. Talk to your consultant, talk to your GP.

But please do not underestimate the risk of not getting the vaccine either.

If I was you I’d just hold off until the baby is born. Lay low for a bit.

Icyseanfitz

My wife is in the exact same boat as you, there's no right answer really imo, either way is a risk but I suppose we know the dangers of covid whereas the potential dangers of a new vaccine are unknown.

One question I have though, if we are being told the vaccine does not in anyway pass through the placenta, how are babies then being born with the antibodies?

Lux23

I fully understand your concern, but maybe consider getting it when you finish the second trimester and ask the doctor to fully explain the risks of getting the vaccine and the risks of getting COVID.

I am trying for a baby now, to no success, but I am glad I will have the second jab soon as I really didn't want to be in your position. It is a very tough decision to make.

revelman

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645944#Comment_117645944

I agree generally with your post apart from where you say that the dangers of COVID are known. We have a good sense of what the immediate impact of COVID is. But we are less sure about longer term. Multi-year studies have only just got under way. We won’t know what the long term impact of this nasty virus is for several years.

KellyKelly

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645944#Comment_117645944

After 17weeks Pregnant, The mother's antibodies pass through the placenta into the baby, Baby is protected 6 weeks after been born. They already tested that MRNA hasn't showed up in breast milk, which is great.

With MRNA Its your own body creating the Immune cell, which will pass to the baby protecting Baby & Mother. I think the last Trimester would be best to get Vaccinated.

I do understand the risks and worries of pregnant women in this time.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/no-trace-mrna-vaccine-found-breast-milk-gene-found-that-helps-identify-covid-19-2021-07-19/

Augustduck

Thank you everyone for your responses and understanding. I am still really unsure what to do and need to do more reading up on it. Its not that my reasoning is flawed, I am just genuinely really torn what to do. Deep down I do not want to get the vaccine and want to allow my body to continue doing the great job it is doing and support that but obviously I am aware there is a pandemic and that there are risks to some pregnant women in the third trimester and that a vaccine may help curb any risks to baby or me! I still have more research and thinking to do, i will hold of til toward the end of second trimestr to have it if I am to go ahead with it. Does anyone have any reputable peer reviewed studies that they would recommend?

Augustduck

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117642601#Comment_117642601

Hi, do you have a link to info about the recent cases in the UK that you mention?

Former Former Former

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647312#Comment_117647312

Preliminary Findings of mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine Safety in Pregnant Persons | NEJM

The New England Journal of Medicine is probably the most respected medical jourmal in the world. Here's a study of nearly 36,000 pregnant vaccinated women.

Jane1012

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647327#Comment_117647327

https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/2021-02-24-combined-info-sheet-and-decision-aid.pdf

bottom of page 3 in the purple box is what I was referring to

https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/2021-02-24-combined-info-sheet-and-decision-aid.pdf

Jane1012

This is where I saw it originally though

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRZD7hwAxZb/?utm_medium=copy_link

its the post from 6 day’s ago

francogarbanzo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647312#Comment_117647312

Listen to your gut.

lisasimpson

I was the same. I was set to wait until after i had gave birth in november and was happy with my decision. I will be working from home until then, no other kids and i didnt mind not eating out or staying away from busy shopping centres. Was happy to keep a low profile

However the last week made me very uncomfortable and ive changed my mind. I not overly happy to be getting it but just the risk got too great. It only take another individual no matter how many precautions you are takign yourself. Over near my parents there is a group who truely believe no need for vaccines god will save us and going around without masks.

If i had older kids i probably would have gotten it before now. Not to scare you but a close friend had to deal with it when one of hers bought it home from the local primary school

Reati

No one here is going to give you the answer. They are going to give you opinions.

For example, my opinion is anyone refusing the vaccine without a valid medical reason is an idiot who should be ostracized from society till they do so.

So, that said, have you asked your doctor, consultant or midwife? They are the professional people best placed to advise you and the people you should be listening too.

Former Former Former

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648926#Comment_117648926

That's appalling advice.

Vorsprung

Can I suggest you have a read of these documents, produced by the Institue of Obstetricians. You need to weight up things for yourself but mostly importantly do that with the accurate information.

https://www.rcpi.ie/news/releases/covid-19-vaccine-decision-aid-for-pregnant-women/

floorpie

OP I'm not weighing in on your choice, I just have a point to make in the thread

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649988#Comment_117649988

This is a strange document. Its summary describes the opposite to the findings in the papers it cites.

E.g. RCPI document says: "COVID-19 is more serious for pregnant women. Pregnant women with symptoms of COVID-19 infection are more likely to need admission to an ICU or to die when compared with women without COVID-19 or similar aged non-pregnant women"

The papers it cites that address this are:

Females in Hospital with SARS-CoV-2 infection, the association with pregnancy and pregnancy outcomes - report (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Pregnancy Outcomes Among Women With and Without Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Infection | Global Health | JAMA Network Open | JAMA Network

They conclude:

"In absolute terms pregnant women admitted to hospital with symptomatic COVID-19 were not at greater risk of adverse outcome ... 'Adverse Outcome' defined as any of death or need of invasive mechanical ventilation or admission to a critical care area."

"SARS-CoV-2 infection during pregnancy was not associated with adverse pregnancy outcomes. Neonatal infection may be as high as 3% and may occur predominantly among asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic women. Placental abnormalities were not associated with disease severity, and hospitalization frequency was similar to rates among nonpregnant women." .... "These findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 infection in pregnancy is not associated with adverse pregnancy outcomes."

It does appear true that pregnant women are more likely to be admitted to hospital, but this seems to be because of routine tests for pregnant women and due to a lower threshold for admission for pregnant women:

"Pregnant females have a shorter length of stay in hospital than those who are not pregnant, even when excluding asymptomatic pregnant women. This suggests that there is a lower threshold for admission of pregnant women regardless of symptom status, and that pregnant women are typically discharged after a short period of inpatient observation"

Females in Hospital with SARS-CoV-2 infection, the association with pregnancy and pregnancy outcomes - report (publishing.service.gov.uk)

It cites 3 studies of the characteristics of pregnant women admitted with COVID-19 and their outcomes, but none provide baselines:

Characteristics and outcomes of pregnant women admitted to hospital with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK: national population based cohort study | The BMJ

Poor maternal–neonatal outcomes in pregnant patients with confirmed SARS-Cov-2 infection: analysis of 145 cases | SpringerLink

Females in Hospital with SARS-CoV-2 infection, the association with pregnancy and pregnancy outcomes - report (publishing.service.gov.uk)

In one paper, 70% were overweight or obese and 34% had other comorbidities, and in the other, 60% had a prior history of respiratory illness. So on what basis should these findings be used for generalisation to a wider population, as the RCPI doc does?

It also cites one meta-analysis that does show slightly higher risk of negative outcomes, but this meta-analysis includes studies from the third world. It also concludes that the "risk factors for severe covid-19 in pregnancy include increasing maternal age, high body mass index, non-white ethnicity, pre-existing comorbidities, and pregnancy specific disorders such as gestational diabetes and pre-eclampsia"

Icyseanfitz

It's all well and good for people to say your a idiot for not getting it while pregnant (are ye in the middle of a pregnancy?)

yet they vaccinated kids and pregnant women for swine flu not long ago and there's now huge issues with narcolepsy and epilepsy in children as a side effect from it. There's no data available for the developmental issues this could cause children down the line.

Former Former Former

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651957#Comment_117651957

There were no ill effects for the children of women vaccinated with the swine flu vaccine.

Epilepsy and narcolepsy are not the same thing - there is no connection to epilepsy from the swine flu vaccine. It is chinese whispers.

Like, by all means be against vaccines but the OP is trying to weigh up a big decision and you're steaming in with incorrect information to get your own agenda across.

Jane1012

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651957#Comment_117651957

Yeah I am … 38 weeks in to the pregnancy… thankfully i’m fully vaccinated! next comment?

Icyseanfitz

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652125#Comment_117652125

No agenda here, me and my wife are in the exact same position as the op, it's a risk either way and someone telling you your an idiot because you aren't jumping feet first into getting an emergency use vaccine without a certain amount of caution and mistrust is beyond ridiculous. No one can say that these vaccines will not cause issues with children down the line (straight from my GP) only that covid certainly causes problems in the present if you are pregnant.

I've gotten my first Pfizer shot btw just in case someone thinks I'm an anti-vaxxer, primarily to protect my wife and child. Vaccines are amazing and have saved countless lives over the decades, but there hasn't been enough time or data related to full term pregnancies to conclude side effects etc.

Alanstrainor

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651957#Comment_117651957

Just to stop this train of thought right here:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html

"In 2018, a study team including CDC scientists analyzed and published vaccine safety data on adjuvanted pH1N1 vaccines (arenaprix-AS03, Focetria-MF59, and Pandemrix-AS03) from 10 global study sites. Researchers did not detect any associations between the vaccines and narcolepsy."

My wife got her first covid jab at 36 weeks, and all went fine. She did not have any real reaction to the Moderna vaccine she received (She felt a small bit of fatigue, but was also 36 weeks pregnant...). She was one of the first pregnant women in Ireland to get it. Granted I understand that one experience is not much to work from but I thought it worth mentioning.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652623#Comment_117652623

Your posting has lots of 'dog whistle' language to undermine vaccination. 'risk either way', 'emergency use vaccine'. Nonsense.

Icyseanfitz

Can you tell my wife and the op that these vaccines will 100% not cause any issues with children in the years after birth? I'm happy your wife and child are doing well.

As for "emergency use vaccine", that is exactly what these are, there's no come back at all if they cause issues down the line.

floorpie

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652682#Comment_117652682

The link you posted is talking about the safety of H1N1 vaccines overall, and the two conclusions regarding Pandemrix from CDC in the link you posted are:

• 1) Case-coverage analysis for Pandemrix-ASO3 in children in the Netherlands did not show evidence of an increased risk of narcolepsy, but the number of exposed cases was small (N=7)
• 2) Incidence rate study data did not show a rise in the rate of narcolepsy following vaccination except in the one signaling country included (Sweden, which used Pandemrix)"

The study that it draws these conclusions from is poor and is still clear that there was increased incidence in Taiwan and Sweden:

Narcolepsy and adjuvanted pandemic influenza A (H1N1) 2009 vaccines - Multi-country assessment - PubMed (nih.gov)

The associations between Pandemrix and narcolepsy in adolescents are well established

Thumpette

I am almost 20 weeks pregnant. I had my first vaccine at 14+3 and my second at 18+3. I of course was nervous taking anything in pregnancy, I avoid a paracetamol if I can. This is my third pregnancy, the first ended in stillbirth unexpectedly at almost 42 weeks. It was a perfectly healthy low risk pregnancy. The only explanation after post mortem was some delayed maturation of the blood vessels in the placenta. The risk of placental issues with covid made taking the vaccine for me a no brainer. Through the stillbirth community I have met more people than usual with 2nd and 3rd trimester losses, unexplained. They will always wonder if they might have had asymptomatic covid that caused their baby to die. For me, covid has very real and proven risks, both to the mother and the baby (as well as to the staff in the hospital who would be forced to treat a covid positive mother). Of course none of us know what might come out in the future about the vaccine, but everything I have read and discussed with many doctors is that this is a safe vaccine in pregnancy. No-one knows what the long term impact of covid in pregnancy may have on the baby either.

I might have considered not taking it if I could have totally cocooned, not sending my son to preschool, not going to the shops, not meeting anyone. Even at that though, with the numbers of this new variant, I think its too big a risk.

I wish you well in your decision. Taking a relatively new vaccine in pregnancy isn't a comfortable thing to do. Getting a relatively new virus with unknown risks and consequences also isn't a good position to be in. For me, it's about the balance of risk. We're in a different world, pregnant in a global pandemic. I for one am very glad to have taken all options available to be to protect the daughter growing inside me.

catrionanic

I'm 35 weeks pregnant and doubly vaccinated. I work in healthcare so it was a no brainer. However I have several friends who have caught covid late in pregnancy and some of them have had complications. One had covid placentitis. We know that the mRNA vaccines do not cross the placenta, and there are studies from around the world now demonstrating no ill effects of the vaccine on hundreds of thousands of pregnant women, many of whom have gone on to have their babies.

It is the safest thing to do for mother and baby.

Minier81

https://boards.ie/discussion/2058199960/covid-vaccine-whilst-pregnant

Augustduck it is your choice what to do. I personally think pregnant woman should get the vaccine as the risks if you catch covid are high. We do not know whether the impact of covid during pregnancy will be even worse with the current variants. It was only in January that we heard about the stillbirths from covid.

However to answer your question about how to manage the risk of not getting jabbed, I absolutely think you need to cocoon and protect yourself and your baby. The delta variant is spreading so much more than previous variants. Ensure anyone living in your home is taking very careful precautions took.

If you truly are torn, please do read some of the excellent reputable links above. I wish you well.