General Rugby Discussion 3

CIARAN_BOYLE

Apparently Gatland will review the assistant coaches Stephen Jones, Jonathan Humphreys, Gethin Jenkins and Neil Jenkins before making any decisions regarding their contract.

I wonder if Gatland will want to bring in his own team.

Wales online is reporting that Gatland will be on a salary of 580K a year. Apparently the WRU is paying out the rest of Pivac's contract and a release fee to the Chiefs for Gatland. Thats going to be steep and if Gatland wants to build his own coaching team it could involve paying off the existing coaches.

sydthebeat

I'd imagine he'll keep Jones , for continuum and because he's highly regarded.

pickarooney

Is Jones highly regarded? A lot of Welsh fans seem to think he's stealing a living as an attack coach with this Welsh side.

All_in_Flynn

I'd be far more worried about England now if the reports are true than I am of Gatland at Wales.

I think 10 months is a tight window but they have a dream draw. It won't take a whole lot for them to make a semi final and arrive at same fairly fresh. They have the parts to have a very effective set piece and kicking game which I'd expect Borthwick to be able to implement.

Wales on the other hand are a mess and there is only so many times you can ask the older chaps to go back to the well. Jones for example has looked his age in any game he's played recently.

One thing I hadn't considered but Gatland's experience with the Lions and getting teams together and up to speed quickly is going to be pretty valuable given the timelines involved. Was a point made by Ruaidhri O'Conner on off the ball and you'd imagine that the combination of his familiarity with some of the playing group and his experience with the Lions should get things up and running far quicker than the norm.

AbusesToilets

Be interesting to see what Borthwick does with Farrell and Smith. I think England would be a lot more effective with Farrell at 10, and starting Slade in one of the center spots

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961884#Comment_119961884

I'd bet my house Borthwick will go with Farrell at 10, and he'll almost certainly bring Ford back into the fold. Leicester's game is based on territory, strong set piece and applying pressure through kicks. I imagine he'll try to implement something similar with England. I've a feeling Smith might find himself outside the 23.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961859#Comment_119961859

i wouldnt be too worried about that tbh, gatland got incredibly lucky to come up against each opposition at close to the worst possible time and managed to only win one series (which they easily could have lost).

Pete_Cavan

WRU to all Welsh players out of contract this summer; sorry we can't even discuss paying you next season, we have had to pay off your new old boss so that we can pay your old old boss to come back, and we had to pay off his employer too. We may have to pay off the new old boss's assistants and then pay for new assistants for your old old boss, who is now the new boss. After that, we will consider if we are willing to pay you next season.

They really are a shambles.

I can't see Gatland making much of a difference anyway, probably wont do any better than Pivac would have but it will be considered a success given the different circumstances. I guess it covers some arses in the WRU for a while and delays the really difficult questions being asked. Gatland just has to do alright in the 6N to look like a saviour but if it goes badly the blame can still be pinned on Pivac. England at home is a reasonable chance for a big distracting win, depending on what state England are in at that stage. Gettinout of the group at the WC could equally be hailed as a success, although Pivac could likely manage that too. Gatland's mediocrity will be seen as a success compared to Pivac's mediocrity.

Cosmo Kramer

Gatland will simplify their game plan and get them organised quickly. He should be able to improve them in the short term - as least in terms of putting a stop to results like they had against Italy and Georgia this year for starters. A three win six nations would be seen as a success there right now. A World cup quarter final is very achievable as well and with them on the soft side of the draw, you couldn't completely rule out a run to a semi.

But beyond 2023 things are looking bleak for Welsh rugby. I wouldn't be surprised if he decides to move on again after the World Cup or the following six nations as he realises that there is not much coming through for him to work with.

OldRio

With the way the draw for the World Cup is set up any coach could take Wales and England to the quarters or semis.

Some posters thought the Autumn Internationals didn't really matter. Two former international coaches might disagree.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961859#Comment_119961859

A point maybe forgotten by Ruaidhri is Gats had a decent squad of players with the Lions… not so much with Wales right now, therein lies the difference.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961694#Comment_119961694

yes he is. on the 42 'wales special' podcast last week steffan thomas was talking about the possibilities should pivac get the chop, and gatland brought back in, and the one coach that he suggested would be kept was Jones. However he also made the point that Gatland is a huge rob howley fan, and both of these coach attack. It might come down to a few things

1. can WRU afford to bring Howely back in, both financially and repotationally

2. how much influence did pivac have on the attack of wales during his tenure, and how much was jones curtailed / directed.

lets not forget Jones was instrumental in scarlets pro 12 win in 2017 and the wales 6N win of 2021. people look at that win as being very lucky for wales card-wise, which is fair... but they did end the competition as top try scorers on 20 and highest 'points for'

yes, this year they have been dreadful though.

Brief_Lives

Eddie Jones is gone according to the Good the bad and the Rugby podcast fellas..

https://twitter.com/GoodBadRugby/status/1600077207073804290

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960554#Comment_119960554

He is the sitting coach.......boom boom.

Clegg

The RFU has confirmed that Eddie Jones is no longer England Head Coach.

https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/1600090181821874177?t=w1X3yuYyQWTuQYApki2jtA&s=09

Red Silurian

What next for Eddie Jones, former English coaches have a good record at Irish clubs, thinking of Lancaster, I wonder would Munster have the finances for him

Pretty direct wording.

Plenty seem to have bought into the 'master plan' concept and are disappointed but if the reported player input was sought then it suggests that the team itself didn't buy it.

Either way - all this drama is great.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963028#Comment_119963028

He hasn't coached domestically on a full time basis in around 15 years. I don't think the role would interest him, but really doubt Munster would want him. You can already see the improvement in Munster's performances over recent weeks as the coaches settle and their gameplans and strategies get imbedded into the team. Why on Earth would you change that for the speculative roll of the dice that is the Eddie Jones show?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963031#Comment_119963031

RFU shouldn't be allowed to escape all of this without criticism and by simply pointing the finger at him.

Rightly or wrongly, he's told this narrative for a long time that the RWC is the only show in town, and he was building for that.

Even if this is the right decision to move on from Jones, I don't see how anyone can argue its the right timing. Rassie had 2 years and 18 games to build the Springboks in RWC winners; Borthwick will have 5 meaningful games and a few warm up matches.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963031#Comment_119963031

Reminds me a lot of the end of the Schmidt era, the wording from the likes of Mike Brown about the England camp sound eerily similar to what people said about the Irish camp in 2019.

Also the RFU more than anyone would know if there was some masterplan, the fact they had no issue getting rid of him this close to the RWC should tell you that this talk of a master plan was rubbish.

farmingquestion

It's good news for nothern hemisphere rugby that England and Wales sacked their terrible managers.

6 Nations is a bit stale when only France are the competition.

Wales - Really poor and future is very very bleak.

Scotland - Scotland is Scotland, another with bleak future and no talent coming through the youth ranks.

Italy - Same as Scotland. Long way off being a really competitive game

England - Been awful for a couple years under Jones.

France - Thankfully they're a force again.

We really need a strong Wales again. The 6 Nations just isn't the same when they're so bad.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963042#Comment_119963042

Just like Lancaster wasn't brought in as a head coach, Eddie would ideally be a support coach in some form. I do take the point that he might not be interested in such a role after 15 years at international level though

Oddly, 12 months from now, both decisions will probably look fine.

Playing a simplified, low risk game plan is a formula with a proven track record of success for knock out rugby and RWCs in particular.

In the England case; he'd lost the dressing room. Whoever the new coach is, if you manage to just galvanise the playing group they'll get a bounce.

In Wales, Gatland will bring a lot of familiarity and simplicity to it.

Both teams benefit from being on the soft side of the RWC draw, and will likely meet each other in a QF.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963071#Comment_119963071

Jones simply doesn't have the personality to fill an assistant/advisor role for anything more than a short consultant type role.

He'd be jostling for supremacy very quickly.

I think he's contractually restricted on taking any national level roles until after the World Cup anyway but I could see him going to somewhere like the US (money permitting) where he could actually do a good job for them in terms of applying structure etc.

Dave_The_Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963071#Comment_119963071

I'd also wonder if his ego would allow him to not be the top man anymore. By most accounts he's an awful person to work for, not being head coach wouldn't allow him to be the **** to everyone that it appears he has been while top of the pile.

Pete_Cavan

I assume that the new coaches won't get much more than a week with their new teams ahead of the 6N. Will have to be a very limited game plan or just keep things much the same as before for the tournament.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963410#Comment_119963410

Gatland might get slightly better access than Borthwick or whoever for England , but they won't have a whole lot of time that's for sure..

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963235#Comment_119963235

Fair point as well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963410#Comment_119963410

It's a short time frame. They may not be able to change the playing squad to the degree they might want and I'd suspect whatever club they come from (if from within the Prem) will end up having a heap of players called up.

They can obviously be sending on work on's, plays and other information to those they are designating but it will be an interesting pre tournament camp to manage and the focus will probably be on some level of continuity and getting the defence organised.

Slightly favourable fixture list too with Scotland at home and then Italy away before a visit to Cardiff. Having the three easier fixtures first gives them a better run up to France and Ireland and a chance to have a bit of momentum going into the final block of games.