General Rugby Discussion 3

System

This discussion was created from comments split from : General Rugby Discussion II.

Koroibete's red card was overturned today .. sliding up doesn't count in the SH it seems

awec

Creating a new thread as the new boards was constantly alerting me every time someone posted in the old one and I couldn't figure out how to turn that off.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117631951#Comment_117631951

Good to see it's not just us peasants having issues 😂

sydthebeat

got to feel sorry for rugby refs these days.

The SH reaction to "high" shots seems to be 180 degrees at odds with NH reactions.

The koroibete tackle is now shown to be legal, yet hes off the pitch for 76 minutes against France. Australia to their best to grab a 3 point victory against the french thirds.

if that was a RWC final imagine the fall out.

we're getting to a stage where the technology about concussion is coming on in leaps and bounds, plus the new WR announcement of the independent concussion consultants role in return to play....

so are we at the point of saying "stop messing with the tackle laws" because there's a world of confusion / interpretation out there in regards to what is legal and what is not.

Heineken champions cup pool draw is being broadcast from 12.00pm tomorrow

Thrashssacre

Watching it now, such a convoluted draw.

Thrashssacre

Nearly had a heart attack and thought we were in a pool with Exeter and la Rochelle somehow when I tuned in.

Munster , Wasps & Castres so far it looks tasty

Hector Savage

I see Australia and NZ have pulled out of the world cup and want it rescheduled to 2022 ... are they serious ?

Like the attitude down there will be any different next year !!

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645388#Comment_117645388

That's rugby league.

Clegg

Neil Francis could be in a lot of trouble now. He was on Luke Fitzgerald's podcast and referred to mixed race player Marcus Smith as having an "Oompa Loompa tan." They've since edited that audio out of the podcast by the original is floating around on twitter.

Francis has has a history of making borderline racist and homophobic remarks in his columns. This one might finally finish him.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651142#Comment_117651142

WTF.

The man is a clown.

Richie_Rich89

hahaha, oompa loompa tan

salmocab

God he is some fool. Beyond me why he ever got a column.

In today's climate I'd say Francis won't even get a slap on the wrist

Quin_Dub

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651142#Comment_117651142

Hopefully

OldRio

This is utterly wrong.

https://twitter.com/TheLooseH/status/1418528281205301248?s=20

Former Former Former

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651337#Comment_117651337

Is 'today's climate' not the most sensitive ever about these things? Like, he's doing a podcast for the Irish Independent, not a talk show on Fox News.

There'll be some sort of 'taken out of context, didn't mean anything' half-apology. If he didn't have a track record, you might allow it but this isn't great.

aloooof

I really don't want to be the one defending Francis (and I'm not sure he deserves the benefit of the doubt, given his history) but is there a chance he may not have been aware of Smith's parentage, and thought the comment was more along the lines of the type of thing that was thrown at Gavin Henson in the past?

He's so ill-informed at times that I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case and he couldn't pick Marcus Smith our of a lineup. But tbh, if you're that ill-informed, even that is probably enough for him to lose his job.

If he was aware of it, and ploughed on anyways, then it's utterly appalling behaviour.

OldRio

You would have thought Fitzgerald would have said something........ . Or perhaps not.

salmocab

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651801#Comment_117651801

I would say he almost certainly wasn’t aware, that in itself is the height of stupidity when working in broadcasting. Regardless of his lack of knowledge mocking someone for the colour of their skin is what he’s done here.

Cookiemunster

This one's not going to be swept under the carpet.

https://www.quins.co.uk/news/harlequins-statement-independentie-comments/#

https://twitter.com/premrugby/status/1418599249684672512?s=19

aloooof

Looks like he's been let go:

https://twitter.com/JosephNaughton4/status/1418608793223458822

KBurke85

Yep let go and not before time https://m.independent.ie/news/rugby-pundit-neil-francis-apologises-for-comments-about-outside-half-marcus-smith-40684353.html

swiwi_

But where will I get my uninformed comments on the haka, pacific island poaching and AB brutality…?

#ripfrancisindo

Faugheen

Wouldn't be surprised if the pro-free speech brigade who know zero about rugby make their way over here to argue that Neil Francis was 'cancelled' and that he wasn't trying to be racist.

Richie_Rich89

What an opportunity for the virtue-signallers. They'll all be creaming themselves.

Francis has put his foot in his mouth here, but by far the most likely explanation is that he assumed Smith was Caucasian and thought he was a preening Gavin Henson type.

It reminds me of that time Jeremy Clarkson referred to Rafael Nadal as "that ape" on Top Gear when he first won Wimbledon. Of course, no-one batted an eyelid. But the reaction would have been very different if it emerged that Nadal was one eighth black, or something.

salmocab

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653478#Comment_117653478

Yes he slagged a guy off for the colour of his skin. Being ignorant isn’t a defence.

sydthebeat

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653478#Comment_117653478

Don't try to excuse racism richie. It's isn't a good look for you

Cheap out for the Indo to get rid of him tbh!

roddney

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653029#Comment_117653029

This was coming for some time. He has a very recent history of constant xenophobic remarks, which he’s been rapped for. Yet he’s kept on digging. I’m surprised he lasted this long. I don’t think there’s a place for someone that uncooth in today’s society, even without the cancel culture

Clegg

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653341#Comment_117653341

Rather incredibly, Ewan McKenna has come to Franno's defence. The man who hates rugby and the 'culture' surrounding it thinks Francis was harshly treated. Which just goes to show the lack of integrity McKenna has really.

Faugheen

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653899#Comment_117653899

I meant the usual suspects around boards, but I'm not surprised in the slightest that he's stuck his oar in. Probably on the bottle again.

Clegg

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653973#Comment_117653973

Ah fair enough.

The lads who've made the lockdown restrictions thread their home.

Teferi

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653341#Comment_117653341

I mean, I don't think he was trying to be intentionally racist. I'd guarantee he didn't know Smith was half filipino. He was playing on the 'softie backs' trope which is tired and boring.

Faugheen

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654025#Comment_117654025

Maybe he should be sure of it before shooting his mouth off about his skin colour then, shouldn't he?

Ignorance is no defence. It's very easy to find out something like that.

Teferi

He was playing on the 'softie backs' trope which is tired and boring. I'd guarantee he didn't know Smith was half filipino.

Faugheen

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654121#Comment_117654121

I read that the first time you said it. It was a pointless remark then and it's still a pointless remark.

If you're going to mock someone's skin colour you better be sure you know what the story is. If you don't then you deserve everything you get.

Francis made a lazy diatribe like he regularly does. He's been pushing the line for a long time and now he's crossed it. All because of his own lazyness.

Teferi

Something that's pointless is calling someone racist when they clearly weren't in that particular instance. It's like those lads on Twitter that call any criticism of Israel anti-semitism - the weaponisation of antisemitism weakens genuine antisemitism. Nail him for actual racist and homophobic comments he's made, not bad faith takes on unfunny gags.

Faugheen

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654180#Comment_117654180

Doesn't matter what the intention was. It ended with a white man mocking a mixed-race man because of his skin colour.

That is racism. Clear cut racism. Just because he didn't know he was mixed race is no excuse. Fact is Marcus Smith is mixed race and he was mocked because of his skin colour.

Would you go to Marcus Smith and tell him that it wasn't a racist remark? Bundee Aki has tweeted about it. Go tell him he's wrong.

Seriously, making excuses for the stupidity of Neil Francis is boring as hell. "Sure he didn't know he was mixed race" - well why didn't he make sure of that before mocking his skin colour then?

Neil Francis is in this position because he mocked a mixed race man's skin colour. It's his own fault. He could have avoided all of this by simply reading the first line on Marcus Smith's Wikipedia page:

"Marcus Sebastian Smith (born 14 February 1999) is a Philippines-born English professional rugby union player, currently playing for the Gallagher Premiership side Harlequins."

But he couldn't be bothered his arse because he wanted to be funny. Instead, he just mocked the skin colour of a mixed race man. And you're here defending him. Good on you and stick to those principles that it wasn't a racist remark.

FarmerBrowne

Couldn't happen to a nicer fella, from the times listening to him on the last word the smugness was dripping of him.

Teferi

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654215#Comment_117654215

Absolutely gas. Now you're also insisting on bad faith readings of what I'm saying. I haven't defended Neil Francis and I'd appreciate if you wouldn't pretend I have. Whenever you're ready to debate in good faith, I'm here. Until then, enjoy getting in a froth due to bad faith takes.

Faugheen

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654285#Comment_117654285

Me debate in good faith?

All you have done is say that Neil Francis thought Marcus Smith was white as if that makes a racist remark ok.

You have ignored everything that has been said to you and I waste all my time spelling it out to you because you're clearly too ignorant to understand why Neil Francis' remarks were racist, and your response is that I'm not debating in good faith.

Absolute time-waster. You've no defence so you deflect and distract. The usual hallmarks for someone who has no leg to stand on.

stephen_n

Warren Gatland saying BOD was the best player he ever coached with the Lions.

Jump_In_Jack

Funny how everyone completely ignored his full comment,

he said

”A HARLEQUINS OUT-HALF, with a David beckham haircut and an Oompa Loompa tan, YOU JUST COULDN’T THROW HIM IN.”

he basically wrote him off because he played for Harlequins, but I’d bet money he actually doesn’t know that they won the league this season.

The rest of it was just a pure ignorant comment, he probably never saw him play, and he obviously thought it was a fake or sunbed tan, à la Gavin Henson or Donncha O’Callaghan.

He said in his apology it was interpreted differently to what he meant, which was about “How backs turn themselves out”, I believe it was just a dumb ignorant comment, rather than a racist comment,

but if he doesn’t know Marcus Smith’s RUGBY background, that he is a highly rated precocious talent that achieved a lot of success with England underage, and has had involvements with the senior English squads since he broke through to play Senior for Harlequins at only 18, (22 now) and that he was the out-half that guided Harlequins to a league win as the underdogs, (I think he stood out in the semi-final miracle comeback as well), and played outstandingly well for England only a few weeks ago, he has no business commenting on rugby as a paid rugby “analyst”.

even his apology is stupid, he should have said clearly that he didn’t realise he was half Filipino and thought it was fake and left it at that.

FWIW, his haircut is ridiculous, it must be a hindrance having hair flopping around your field of vision, particularly at out-half where you need to see everything and can’t afford to make handling errors too often.

Teferi

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654294#Comment_117654294

Yet again not engaging in what I'm saying and making up arguments in your head. Take a step back and read what I actually wrote - it will help.

aloooof

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654215#Comment_117654215

“Doesn't matter what the intention was.” - I couldn’t disagree more with this tbh.

Teferi

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654312#Comment_117654312

It wasn't even an apology. It was the 'sorry if you were offended' faux-apology. Mug stuff.

Faugheen

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654320#Comment_117654320

Fine. Go ahead and make excuses for someone mocking a mixed-race man's skin colour because he couldn't be bothered his arse to read the first line of Marcus Smith's wikipedia page.

Ignorance isn't a defence, but as I've said you do you.

aloooof

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654335#Comment_117654335

I’m not defending him or making excuses for him; if he knew of Smith’s parentage it’s racist, if he didn’t it’s incompetent, lazy and kinda nasty. But there is a difference in those positions.

I’m no fan of Francis and ultimately he is the only one who’ll know what he meant (and I’m not even sure he deserves the benefit of the doubt given his history), but intent matters.