Turning Red (Pixar)

pixelburp

Another Pixar film, they're starting to come out thick n' fast now; not so bad while they remaining charmingly entertaining I suppose ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqdHP2dWQ9M

Mickeroo

I get the feeling that some of these films are more Disney than Pixar and they are just sticking the logo on there to give them a bit more credibility. Having said that Luca was grand but it didn't really feel like a Pixar film to me (compared to something like Soul for example).

pixelburp

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117612027#Comment_117612027

out of curiousity, what would you peg as "Pixar" appropriate? :-) This and Luca seem to be going for stories about "identity" and coming to terms with yourself (even Soul to an extent), which if nothing else feels emotional complex enough to be broadly in Pixar's wheelhouse

Mickeroo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117612656#Comment_117612656

Hard to quantify I suppose but Luca felt very slight to me compared to something like Soul or Inside Out. More about the execution than premise itself.

speedboatchase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117612802#Comment_117612802

I never understood this common criticism of Luca. It's a movie for children. Inside Out and Soul (another of those children's movies where the protagonist is a middle-aged pianist) are existentialist and clearly aimed at adults, hence their lack of appeal compared to the merchandising behemoths of Frozen and Cars. There's nothing 'slight' about aiming your movie at the appropriate audience.

johnny_ultimate

I don't think any Pixar film is aimed at adults in particular. They're all family-friendly, aiming to work for pretty much anyone who watches it. Some absolutely have themes and ideas that will resonate strongly with adults and some are pitched more overtly at younger audiences. But I think anyone of any age should find something to enjoy in any Pixar film - whether that's Up or Luca.

I don't mean that entirely in a positive way, though. There's no doubt Pixar's approach of 'try to make something for everyone' has made some fantastic films, particularly in the glory days. But it's also what holds them back creatively, especially recently - what was once refreshing has become formulaic, and why even some of the more 'mature' films like Soul are weighed down with goofy creature antics and the like. Studio Ghibli has done a much better job diversifying the style and tones of their films over the years.

pixelburp

I'll say one thing; if I had to choose either Soul or Luca as a film to rewatch today, right now ... while the former is probably the better film, the latter was far more enjoyable, personable entertainment. The charisma and empathy jumped off the screen, its messaging of love curiously rare these days in blockbuster cinema. It told such a simple, low-stakes story with such effortlessness.

And the pasta. The pasta.

Santa Mozzarella.

Tom Mann Centuria

She's a Red Panda, the one true Panda, so it's going to be great. Even if it isn't, Red Panda.

pixelburp

A full trailer has just appeared; honestly, I laughed a good few times. Definitely looks to be channeling the Luca side of Pixar more than anything else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKzUbAiswE

pixelburp

So for the third time in a row, a Pixar movie will head to Disney+ instead of cinemas. Release is still March 11, and no confirmation yet if it'll be "free" with the service or a Premium add-on.

johnny_ultimate

It really feels like Disney is treating Pixar films like b-tier fare with this approach - tossing them on to a streaming service as if they’re an inconvenience. Doesn’t look great at all after three films in a row, given the amount of films they are happily putting into actual cinemas. Especially a shame that two first time feature directors haven’t had a chance to see their films get a proper theatrical release. Hell, I’ve seen several Netflix films in a cinema over the last two years and no Pixars :/

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445480#Comment_118445480

It will be free according to Empire

It really strange. Pixar is a massive money maker - is it possible that the people who subscribe just lastest Pixar equals the money at they box office that they have it online at no extra charge? Could the Premium for Disney films be because they can’t generate the same money?

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118445786#Comment_118445786

Especially so when you consider that Sing 2 is the first film to crack 100m at the box office during the pandemic. Kids films have in fact performed remarkably strongly at the box throughout the pandemic, so it seems an odd decision to leave that money on the table. I can only assume that the Disney marketers have decided that content driving subs to Disney Plus provides a better long term return. That or it's garbage. There's something about the 'bean mouth' Cal Arts asthetic that has infected Pixar lately that makes me want stuff like this to fail, it's horrible, horrible animation. I just got done watching Arcane and was amazed at what putting a bit of effort into animated features can still achieve. Leave that cheaply animated, asthetically ugly Stephen Universe kack to the Cartoon Network.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454520#Comment_118454520

I have yet to see anything from Pixar that is garbage. They have ups and downs but never make something terrible.

Soul is wonderful and I have heard nothing but praise from Luca from people I work with.

They were both free so it isn’t about the quality of it.

TheIrishGrover

I was never gone on A Bug's Life or the Cars sequels. Toy Story 4 was not needed but didn't screw up a perfect trilogy (It's still redundant but worth it for Keanu Reeves).

Encanto and Luca were pleasant. But this looks very funny. I'm well looking forward to this. And God, look at that fur animation.

Full_Circle_81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454520#Comment_118454520

Could you elaborate a little on the "bean mouth Cal Arts aesthetic"? Not looking to argue or disagree, just curious. Was there a movie when you felt the animation style changed for the worse?

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460005#Comment_118460005

The 'Cal Arts' asthetic has become pretty common in cartoons these days, you can see and example of it's 'bean mouth' below, notice how every gob is a simple kidney bean shape, just as every face is largely made up of the same collection of very basic and easy to reproduce shapes?

Now take a look at the character design for Turning Red in the trailer image:

https://youtu.be/XdKzUbAiswE

The whole Cal Arts asthetic is just a simplistic style intended for low budget animation that won't tax unskilled animators.

The California Institute of the Arts (which that particular style of animation is associated), was founded by Walt Disney to train animators, among it's first graduating class you had the likes of John Lasseter, Tim Burton and Brad Bird. How far the mighty have fallen.

If you are a top tier animation studio maybe don't employ a symplistic style designed for cheaply and quickly produced animation to be churned out by animators that can barely draw.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460596#Comment_118460596

How are Tim Burton and Brad Bird “fallen”?

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461039#Comment_118461039

Perhaps I worded that poorly, I mean't the grand institution founded by Disney to train the next generation animators (many of it's first graduates were visionaries that I listed) but which now churns out Tumblr artists, that said, I don't think anybody is clamboring for Alice in Wonderland 3 or Tomorrowland 2 that's for sure.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461064#Comment_118461064

Okay - with Lassiter’s name in there it has me thinking it was about being “handsy “ and I knew Bird & Burton had done nothing wrong so I was confused

pixelburp

Well we can say Brad Bird is "fallen" in the sense that Tomorrowland kinda nuked his live-action directorial career into the ground. He won a lot of runway off the back of MI: Ghost Protocol - which gave the franchise a big shot in the arm - but then helmed a giant flop. Still directed/wrote Incredibles 2 but interesting how he returned for a sequel to the film that put him on the map in the first place.

johnny_ultimate

To be honest, I'm semi-relieved to see Pixar at least pushing the limits of their visual design beyond the stale 'house style'. Luca and this do have a different look to their usual fare, and both are clearly primarily pitched at a younger audience that would likely more appreciate the more overtly 'cartoonish' look. It's a very modest change though and hardly at the cutting edge of animation we see from the best international fare (and occasionally, with the likes of Spiderverse, from America too).

That said, I do think Pixar has been in a creative rut generally for a while now - their films are far too formulaic narratively and stylistically. They still typically make films that are at least solid, but I’ve lost hope at this stage that they’re going to really push themselves in a new direction - especially within an increasingly artistically conservative Disney.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461583#Comment_118461583

As conorhal pointed out above he wasn’t referring to to those guys or their careers as “fallen”

So let us not put words in his mouth

I was not aware that Brad Bird’s live action directed suffered as a result Tomorrowland (other directors have made terrible movies and just carried on) - I thought he just went to work on Incredibles 2

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461716#Comment_118461716

Not putting words anywhere. Just taking the conversation elsewhere, off the back of mentioning Bird and mentions of being "fallen" of sorts. In this case his career, rather than his personal reputation ala Lassiter.

Incredibles and Ghost Protocol put Bird on the map, and Tomorrowland was something of a "blank cheque" for him, the two films basically opening doors to allow him to make the film he had been itching to make, relatively unobstructed - creatively or monetarily.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461827#Comment_118461827

Nothing wrong with taking that point in another direction - I just wanted it clear to anyone ready that that was not what conorhal was talking about. I didn’t mean you couldn’t make a new point from it ;)

anyway are you sure it killed his live action directing? I just thought he wanted to spend time getting Incredibles 2 right

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460596#Comment_118460596

The cartoons I've watched on that comparison sheet, Gravity Falls, Steven Universe, We Bare Bears and Gumball, are all really enjoyable shows.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461583#Comment_118461583

You DARE besmirch the man who gave us The Iron Giant???!!! 😀 Nah, I know what you mean. He got a bit of a kicking after Tomorrowland. I actually thought Tomorrowland wasn't bad. It was a bit muddled and the tone had some add shifts (Probably down to the differences between Bird and David Lindlehof's styles). Its optimism is a little heavy-handed but in general it's a pleasant, if forgettable film.

As for the animation-style? I suppose some of that could also come down to the sub-genre. Yes, the character design is reminiscent of "Luca" (Almost Chibi anime style) but look at the storylines: These are more about growing up/coming out - Certainly Turning Red seems to be all about Puberty (I thought that was a funny mic drop at the end of "Inside-out" looking at all the teenager buttons and dials etc.).

The character models for Encanto were much more complex as the characters, in general, were older. I know the adults in Luca and this seem to conform to the same style but that would because they don't want the shift to be so jarring.

I would like to see what Pixar would do with something more "Grown Up". I'm not talking about sex and violence but a more adult storyline. Think of Waltz with Bashir or The Breadwinner

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461953#Comment_118461953

Gravity Falls is fantasic

i haven’t got to We Bare Bears yet

Mr Crispy

What's really depressing is that no matter how stale Pixar's offerings become, they're still a shoo-in for best animated Oscar despite stellar work from lesser known (to the Academy) studios. Yes, I'm still pissed off that Wolf Walkers didn't win.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462396#Comment_118462396

America is a bit of a closed house when it comes to Animation, and plaudits thereof. But then given live-action has barely managed the crazy idea of giving non-American films the Best Picture gong, perhaps it stands to reason Animation lags further behind.

One does wonder where Pixar might have gone, had it not been swallowed up by Disney; certainly the obvious guess would be we would have seen fewer sequels to past hits. But then when their half-ássed films still charm and entertain as much as Luca, it's hard to feel that annoyed or disappointed either.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462396#Comment_118462396

For crying out loud, "Boss Baby" was nominated over "Your Name"..... BOSS BABY!!!

johnny_ultimate

On-Gaku remains the most criminally underseen of recent animated films. It boasts a deceptively crude art style that's used and subverted to create some of the most expressive, energetic animated sequences of recent years. And it's absolutely hilarious to boot, with the kind of deadpan humour that's both fresh and admirably 90s.

https://youtu.be/KoqptivRx_0

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462630#Comment_118462630

Didn't think I'd like that trailer from the art style of the YouTube snapshot but that looks very funny (Love the deadpan delivery). Must check this out.

KerryM9

My word this was one silly film. Poor effort by Pixar. Can't understand the high scores and such glowing comments by the critics.

johnny_ultimate

I thought it was really good - my favourite Pixar film since The Incredibles 2, and the freshest and most surprising thing they’ve done since the WALL-E / Up golden era. And I think that’s because they mostly keep it small - just a fun story about the goofiness, embarrassment and confusion of adolescence, and in a more honest way than you’d usually find in American animation. Doome Shi directs the hell out of - all vibrant colours, high energy and delightful little stylistic flourishes. For all Pixar’s supposed debt to Studio Ghibli, this is the first time a strong anime influence is really evident in both the visual storytelling and editing. And details such as the painterly Toronto skylines are just gorgeous and a real break from the Pixar house style.

It’s not perfect by any stretch - the big spectacular climax feels like it kinda betrays the defiantly low-stakes the film has focused on up until that point. The central panda metaphor also gets really stretched over the course of the film (although the whole manic initial transformation sequence where they make it an overt ‘first period’ metaphor is a delight - genuinely not the type of thing I ever thought you’d get in a Disney / Pixar film). But on the whole it was a cool example of Pixar stretching their wings - and IMO more successfully than either Soul or Luca.

KerryM9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118776561#Comment_118776561

Fair enough, each to their own. 90 minutes I won't get back. There was no depth at all to the story, you saw where it was going from early on and it went exactly along that path with no surprises whatsoever. And the ride along the way was silly, not in a funny way. For me.

megaten

Watched it yesterday and was really impressed. First Pixar movie I've seen since maybe Monsters University and was really impressed by how much things have come on visually. Feels like in the past couple of years as 3D techinqies have matured that amrican studios are really begnning to flex artistically with the medium brought on by how advanced lighting and materials have come on.

KerryM9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778679#Comment_118778679

I'm well aware what the message was, it was obvious less than half an hour in.

KerryM9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779516#Comment_118779516

Not depth of message or ideology, depth of storytelling, I'm talking about the film itself and not the message the film wants to get across as the takeaway. I agree with this message and it's a very positive message, but as a film the story was barebone and shallow.

pixelburp

Firstly, it's an absolute crime this was yet another Pixar film without a cinema release ... and that goes double when the film was as enjoyable, heartfelt and funny as it was. I just hope the digital release allows as many people as possible to see this. Especially for having the "nerve" to compassionately talk about a subject 50% of planet earth experiences - but is habitually treated like a taboo.

Yeah there's an argument this has a napkin sized amount of actual story, but when it was carried off with such style, energy and humanity as this, the journey never felt dull or stretched. After a few movies chasing a photorealistic aesthetic, it was refreshing to watch something more stylistic and akin to older Pixar flicks; this movie reminded me they remain masters of comic timing, animated or not.

Flinty997

I think its a confused movie. Its message seems to be pitched at a older child. The style and story of the movie seems very much pitched at a younger child. Its pop culture references are very asian but its not set in asia. I think they were trying to appeal to everyone and I think this goes against it. TBH the trailer is like a trailer for a different film. Looked great. But I stopped watching about a third of the way in. I was wondering what the kids who I assume its pitched at thought of it, and only the youngest child I asked liked it.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781670#Comment_118781670

For context, the director-writer Domee Shi is Canadian-Chinese, and grew up in Toronto; going by Wikipedia she would have been 15 during 2002 - so I'd speculate a lot of the family material drew inspiration from Shi's own upbringing and youth, that push and pull between her two worlds. I'm going to presume her family doesn't have an issue with turning into Red Pandas mind you 😂

I think you missed on a quality movie in stopping that soon in. And while I didn't watch it with kids that I could gauge the demographic, I think the film's theme was spot-on, via the blunt analogy the Panda served as: that transformative change girls go through, often without warning and inconsistently that it takes parents by surprise as much as the children. I'd wonder how well this movie might have played with mothers and daughters, especially those who might remember that time (I'm not female so taking big swings there, but by all accounts it's kind of obscene how much of a forbidden topic it is).

Flinty997

The issue I have its pitched too young stylistically, story. While its analogies target is older kids, pre teens. if you say its a nostalgia piece fair enough. But I think its too childish to have much appeal to an older audience. If you consider what 9~13 watch even in age ratings they are usually a lot more sophisticated than this.

From what I've read, and I could be wrong I got the impression the director said its aimed specifically at a eastern female demographic. Perhaps their kids are watching more childish content older, or more mature content younger. In which case I'm not meant to get it.

johnny_ultimate

The anime influence IMO helps explain a lot of where this is pitched at tonally and stylistically. Japanese 'high school fantasy' animation and fantasy is often pitched bright and broad, and Domee Shi has been very clear her team was influenced a lot by the like of Sailor Moon. That kind of anime would blur the line of what many western audiences would typically expect from content aimed specifically at kids and content aimed specifically at teens, but also has an ever-increasing cultural footprint outside Asia. But honestly I found the film's colourful style and goofy energy totally endearing, and its tackling of more adolescent themes (while still being family-friendly viewing) a long-overdue departure from the Pixar norm. The mix of western and Asian influences in the style felt absolutely pitch-perfect for the characters and themes.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-03-11/turning-red-explained-disney-plus-director-domee-shi

Flinty997

It certainly has that Asian boy band/ anime thing going on.

Be interested in how it does commercially. I don't think anyone's going openly criticize it upfront for fear of a backlash.

S.M.B.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782832#Comment_118782832

I hadn't realised that Billie Eilish and Finneas O’Connell wrote the 4 Town songs. I was quite surprised to find myself humming them days after initially watching.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782966#Comment_118782966

I've seen plenty of lukewarm responses on letterbox; why would people fear a backlash any more than any other critical opinion on Popular Film X? Its Last Act ain't great and that's a bit of a consensus ATM; it suffers from just throwing spectacle at a story that was - up to that point - extremely small scale and mundane. It definitely hasn't been immune from criticism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782642#Comment_118782642

I think that's a definite YMMV going on when it comes to style. 9-13 is a very strange age, such that these days it has its own term with "tween" - somewhere between a child and teenager. My kid is barely a toddler so I'm far from that point - but my 11 year old niece would be within that bracket and definitely within that weird halfway stage. Myself? I'd not have said the style was overly alienating in being too childish, while the movie's themes would surely be quite relatable for kids going through the same changes themselves (or those older who might remember). Especially mothers and daughters, with that very particular bond and the scariness of catching that transformative change that can happen around that time.

I'd go so far as to say it's a worthy companion piece to Inside Out, albeit more sentimental and less sad than the older movie. Yeah, the style is bouncier, more energetic and full of sugar - but that hides a depth IMO.

At the very least, I'd suggest at least finishing the movie and get an overall sense of the thing yourself - maybe the aesthetic caught you in the wrong mood 😁

flazio

If the Red Panda is meant to be a mystical period metaphor then shouldn't the Granny's panda have died before the story started? Also I was convinced that the granny was voiced by Michelle Yeoh when she spoke first. Surprised it wasn't her.

I commend Pixar for going there and facing the girl to woman conversation head on but it suffered the same 3rd act problem that's plaguing it's cousins over at Marvel Studios. I thought the mother was very poorly written, one moment supportive of her daughter, the next completely flying off the handle and turning into Pandazilla.

Also why the 20 year (oh God I'm old) jump back? Was it to remove plot devices such as phones and computers in use by children?

There's a spark missing at Pixar at the moment. Main House of Mouse productions like Raya and Encanto and other studio stuff like Spider-verse, Mitchells vs The Machines and Klaus are doing better jobs at both entertaining and pulling at heart strings.

TheIrishGrover

I must say, I enjoyed that. I thought it was very cute and funny. I liked the style. As others have said, similar character design in ways to Luca. But I think this is a definite choice. Sort of their tween growing-pains genre, if you will. I don't think it's any general shift in their overall Pixar-style.

I enjoyed the anime influences (especially the kawaii reactions) and I'm glad to see these styles crossing in both directions while still maintaining their own style (One can look at Mamoru Hosoda's "Belle" to see the slightly more Western animation when in the online universe which then switches to very typical contemporary anime style when in the real world).

I actually don't think it suffered from a 3rd Act problem. The mother may have been a bit underwritten/weak but then, from an Asian/American, Asian/Canadian POV this may be absolutely a well-loved clichè (I'm thinking of one of my favourite comedy shows: The Royale Family. Trying to explain to an American colleague how funny a mundane conversation about not having kit-kats with a cup of tea can be).

So, tldr: I thought this was fun and cute. Is it Toy Story 2 or 3? No. But I think it's their best work in years. (I was a bit underwhelmed by Luca and Soul and Onward TBH).

But that damn song is an earworm

onemoreopinion

Watched this today and I loved it. Disappointed I didn't have movies like it when I was younger.

poppysee

I really enjoyed Turning Red. The film starts of lighthearted and funny but slowly dives into the discomforts of being a teen that's going through puberty, any young teenager or anyone who has been through the teenage stage would definitely find this film relatable and nostalgic.