The Cranberries: the appreciation (and reconciliation) thread

FR85

Flavio Josefo wrote: »

My Top5 songs for each 90s albums:

Uncertain:
Pathetic Senses
Iosa
Nothing Left At all
Uncertain
Chrome Paint

EEIDISWCW
1 Linger
2 Not Sorry
3 Sunday
4 Liar (B)
5 Waltzing Back

NNTA
1 Yeats Grave
2 Ridiculous Thougths
3 Empty
4 So Cold In Ireland (B)
5 I Don't Need (B)

TTFD
1 Forever Yellow Skies
2 Joe
3 Hollywood
4 The Rebels
5 Cordell

BTH
1 Shattered
2 Promises
3 Desperate Andy
4 Loud And Clear
5 Delilah

Surprised not to see Zombie in there off NNTA, Just My Imagination off BTH along Salvation and Free to Decide off TTFD, these were always favourites at live shows. They would be up there on my list

FR85

Flavio Josefo wrote: »

I have listened to this album and the two by Dolores as a soloist, neither has excited me.

The magic is in the moment when the beautiful voice of Dolores fuses with the instruments of Mike, Noel and Fergal.

The band she put together for here solo stuff were incredible, Marco Mendoza on Bass, Steve Demarci on Guitar and Graham Hopkins on Drums. Top drawer players who just.....amazing.

Flavio Josefo

FR85 wrote: »

Surprised not to see Zombie in there off NNTA, Just My Imagination off BTH along Salvation and Free to Decide off TTFD, these were always favourites at live shows. They would be up there on my list

I love the ending solo of Zombie, but the song is not even In my Top50 of the band. Despite this is the song that I discovered tha band when I were a child.

Just My Imagination is another huge song on the Spanish radios. Boring and pop song, when I was 10 or 12 years old I loved Just My Imagination, but musical tastes change. One of my least favourite songs.

Free To Decide has another brilliant ending solo, but the song is really boring to me, as When You're Gone.

And Salvation... This is one of the most controversial songs to me, is the only song that today I hate and maybe tomorrow I will love. Really strange. But I think is a good song, better than Free To Decide and Just My Imagination.

Flavio Josefo

FR85 wrote: »

The band she put together for here solo stuff were incredible, Marco Mendoza on Bass, Steve Demarci on Guitar and Graham Hopkins on Drums. Top drawer players who just.....amazing.

Yes, they are great musicians. But I like The Cranberries and this post-punk vibes of Mike and that jangle guitar of Noel. And of course the best drummer of the 90s, that it is Fergal

magicbastarder

i've no great gra or dislike of the cranberries either way, but 'zombie' has me immediately reaching to change the station if it comes on the radio. can't stand it.

Flavio Josefo

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've no great gra or dislike of the cranberries either way, but 'zombie' has me immediately reaching to change the station if it comes on the radio. can't stand it.

I can't stand Yellow Submarine, Enter Sandman, About A Girl, November Rain, Baba O'Riley, Starway To Heaven, Comfortably Numb, Personal Jesus, all the songs from The Smiths, Sunday Bloody Sunday...

And many more great songs, but that's not why I'm going to deny their musical significance and quality.

gigantic09

Flavio Josefo wrote: »

Nice to read that, which is your favourite album?

The 2nd one, the one that sold 18 million copies. I think you seriously underestimate the importance of Shane McGowan and the pogues. Their brand of folk punk was hugely popular at live events all over the world. Even when McGowan couldn't string a coherent sentence together they were selling out shows. The 1st 3 Albums they released in the 80's were excellent especially rum sodomy & if I should fall . This fact that you weren't aware of them till 2 years ago is your loss though.

Suckit

gigantic09 wrote: »

The 2nd one, the one that sold 18 million copies. I think you seriously underestimate the importance of Shane McGowan and the pogues. Their brand of folk punk was hugely popular at live events all over the world. Even when McGowan couldn't string a coherent sentence together they were selling out shows. The 1st 3 Albums they released in the 80's were excellent especially rum sodomy & if I should fall . This fact that you weren't aware of them till 2 years ago is your loss though.

Or gain..

A lot to listen to. Definitely underestimating their influence though. I wouldn't be considered a fan of theirs, but they are seriously revered the world over.
I saw them in 1991, not that I remember much of it, and I didn't see them in Oxegen, as I was skint that year and was EP or nothing, and I am happy with my decision.
The Christmas song that you refer to, just stands as a testament to their songwriting ability. Too many songs that started out as enjoyable or resonated with people in any way, end up being overplayed until the same people hate the sound of them. FTONY gets away with it more often because it is seasonal.
But it wouldn't be considered their best by a long shot, by many.

Flavio Josefo

gigantic09 wrote: »

The 2nd one, the one that sold 18 million copies. I think you seriously underestimate the importance of Shane McGowan and the pogues. Their brand of folk punk was hugely popular at live events all over the world. Even when McGowan couldn't string a coherent sentence together they were selling out shows. The 1st 3 Albums they released in the 80's were excellent especially rum sodomy & if I should fall . This fact that you weren't aware of them till 2 years ago is your loss though.

As much as I may have underestimated their importance, or unaware of its influence in the '80s, there is no way The Pogues can measure up to The Cranberries.

The way and depth in which Dolores marked that generation of the 90s, ranging from young people in their 30s to young children (as is my case) is only comparable to the footprint left by bands like Nirvana, Alice In Chains or RHCP, and another huge bands in this time. The Cranberries were at that level.

On the other hand, it is hard for me to think that The Pogues could ever reach the level of The Cure, The Smiths, Dire Straits, Guns N Roses or Metallica, also U2, to give diverse examples of those who dominated that decade.

The fact that until relatively recently I did not know The Pogues is a clear indication of the reality of the world, perhaps in the USA those over 50 know that Christmas song and the vast majority of British and Irish know more songs by The Pogues. But outside of those territories, these artists are totally unknown. While all over the world; Continental Europe, Asia, South America, Australia, etc, The Cranberries is and will continue to be a well-known and recognized band

Flavio Josefo

I knew the band with this vídeo:

https://youtu.be/6pYI9t-I6qo

gigantic09

Flavio Josefo wrote: »

As much as I may have underestimated their importance, or unaware of its influence in the '80s, there is no way The Pogues can measure up to The Cranberries.

The way and depth in which Dolores marked that generation of the 90s, ranging from young people in their 30s to young children (as is my case) is only comparable to the footprint left by bands like Nirvana, Alice In Chains or RHCP, and another huge bands in this time. The Cranberries were at that level.

On the other hand, it is hard for me to think that The Pogues could ever reach the level of The Cure, The Smiths, Dire Straits, Guns N Roses or Metallica, also U2, to give diverse examples of those who dominated that decade.

The fact that until relatively recently I did not know The Pogues is a clear indication of the reality of the world, perhaps in the USA those over 50 know that Christmas song and the vast majority of British and Irish know more songs by The Pogues. But outside of those territories, these artists are totally unknown. While all over the world; Continental Europe, Asia, South America, Australia, etc, The Cranberries is and will continue to be a well-known and recognized band

While cranberries were a very decent band I don't think they had anywhere near the lasting influence of say Nirvana for that time period. There are comparisons to be made in that both Kurt and Delores were thrown in the deep end and both were ill equipped to cope with the madness. Nevermind however was a level above anything else around at the time and still sounds fresh and relevant today.
I will grant you that they're alot more well known than the pogues but that does not necessarily make them better. Shane was alot better lycrist when Delores was a better performer. U2 are more influential than either but that's just my opinion. Many great acts including thin lizzy never reached their full potential while Bono and u2 squeezed every drop out of theirs. They brought touring to a new level and regularly feature high on lists for all time greatest albums.

FR85

At the end of all this, no one is taking away from The Cranberries or DOL in anyway, we all have our tastes and opinions.

No one it right and no one is wrong, tis all just a matter of opinion

Flavio Josefo

gigantic09 wrote: »

While cranberries were a very decent band I don't think they had anywhere near the lasting influence of say Nirvana for that time period. There are comparisons to be made in that both Kurt and Delores were thrown in the deep end and both were ill equipped to cope with the madness. Nevermind however was a level above anything else around at the time and still sounds fresh and relevant today.
I will grant you that they're alot more well known than the pogues but that does not necessarily make them better. Shane was alot better lycrist when Delores was a better performer. U2 are more influential than either but that's just my opinion. Many great acts including thin lizzy never reached their full potential while Bono and u2 squeezed every drop out of theirs. They brought touring to a new level and regularly feature high on lists for all time greatest albums.

The Cranberries are the only band in Rock History with origins in dreamop, shoegaze and jangle, which sold 50 million copies. There is no other similar case.

Perhaps The Smashing Pumpkins could be pigeonholed into this style, although it quickly abandoned it. Also, they sold 35 million copies, and they were American, which gave them a huge backing.

We enter 1992, with an overwhelming dominance of grunge, bands like AIC put out Dirt which is a mix between the sound of Seattle and classic metal. And suddenly, an indie band from Ireland, with a female vocalist in her early 20s who had only left Ireland once, enters the alternative charts.

That band grows like foam in alternative environments, after EEIDISWCW was a resounding failure in the UK, even though it contained two of the best songs of the decade. And I would even venture to venture that EEIDISWCW contains two of the 50 best of the 20th century.

Well, that little indie band with a 20-year-old vocalist, practically looking like a girl, places a single in the Top8 and also overshades the most important English band of the moment in 1993; Suede.

The history of the early years of The Cranberries is amazing, and makes it clear that far from being a manufactured product, they were one of the last great bands to be forged from the underground environment. An old school band.

The Cranberries, a truly indie or alternative band, formed part of the so-called mainstream because it was impossible for it not to end there. And despite that, they never lost their way of making music or sold to the highest bidder to make commercial music.

You may like it or not that they chose aspects as hard as drug addiction for Salvation, that they talked about the violence in Ireland with Zombie, that they wrote about that poor boy murdered on the train tracks or even that in Fee Fi Fo Dolores completely undressed.

Dolores was perhaps a too stubborn person, a lyricist with many deficiencies and a woman with psychological problems caused by many things that happened in her life. But it is undeniable that its significance in the last years of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st century has been enormous.

For me and for many people she was the best rock vocalist of that decade, taking into account both male and female vocalists. As music, Dolores was extraordinary, multi-instrumentalist, a very good (maybe 7/10) guitar player capable of doing solos that sounded very unique, in her own style, such as Zombie, Waltzing Back, Free To Decide and Promises. He was definitely a better vocalist than Kurt.

It is evident that what The Cranberries supposed in the Rock scene in the early 90's has not yet been calibrated, they were a band that released one of the best debuts in history during practically the same month that Slowdive released Souvlaki, which is considered dreampop genesis album.

It's funny, Souvlaki has had that revision as a founding album, while EEIDISWCW has not, despite as I say, being from the same era and similar in style. In fact, from one The Cranberries debut combined dreampop, with jangle, classic rock and folk, as mentioned by this user (@southpawgrammar) in discogs. Equally surprised by the fact that it has not been reviewed and valued in its proper measure:

https://www.discogs.com/master/51023-Everybody-Else-Is-Doing-It-So-Why-Cant-We/reviews

The Cranberries, due to its Catholic, Irish condition, perhaps linked to certain conservative positions due to the criticism that Dolores made of abortion, and also because of the enmity with English journalism, which wanted to favor the acts of Britpop, it was and continues to be an undervalued band, to sometimes mistreated, and habitually hidden in debates.

This is a glaring reality, and it is only in the hands of the Irish to try to change this comparative grievance.

Flavio Josefo

FR85 wrote: »

At the end of all this, no one is taking away from The Cranberries or DOL in anyway, we all have our tastes and opinions.

No one it right and no one is wrong, tis all just a matter of opinion

Agreed

Sheep breeder

Dolores family lived in two houses in ballybricken and her father Terry was very religious and was a very strange girl when younger was always dressed in black. As for her music she had three top class lads playing who were serious players who created a lot of the band beat, as for her popularity how many of today’s teenagers could name you 4 of her songs, would think very few. Our two teenage girls would name you U2, Eagles, Pogues, Oasis, Springsteen, Nirvana, Greenday, Metallica, the Sawdoctors etc songs, albums etc at the drop of a hat.
As for U2 Bono wrote some serious songs and for others as well and opened the door for a lot of bands to follow and put Irish music on the world stage, I am not a big fan of U2 by the way,

Flavio Josefo

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Dolores family lived in two houses in ballybricken and her father Terry was very religious and was a very strange girl when younger was always dressed in black. As for her music she had three top class lads playing who were serious players who created a lot of the band beat, as for her popularity how many of today’s teenagers could name you 4 of her songs, would think very few. Our two teenage girls would name you U2, Eagles, Pogues, Oasis, Springsteen, Nirvana, Greenday, Metallica, the Sawdoctors etc songs, albums etc at the drop of a hat.
As for U2 Bono wrote some serious songs and for others as well and opened the door for a lot of bands to follow and put Irish music on the world stage, I am not a big fan of U2 by the way,

I've been collecting information and reading about all the members of The Cranberries for 14 years. You should know that Noel at 18 barely knew how to play the guitar, that it was Fergal and Mike (the youngest) who founded the band, and who made Noel take an interest in music.

Dolores learned to play the guitar at 17, a year and a half before Noel, with whom she was much more advanced than he in that regard.


What she was strange, that she wore black and other misinformation of the Melody Maker I am not going to comment.

That said, and as I have repeated several times, I do like The Cranberries, and Dolores's voice alone does not seem so flashy when it is not backed by Mike's bass, Fergal's drums and Noel's guitar.

I don't think you need to praise guys to criticize her, you can say outright that you didn't like her voice. It would be easier.

By the way, when you emphasize that you are not a fan of a particular artist, it is usually because you really are.

gigantic09

Of course you can respect an artist without being a fan. I'm not a fan of Johnny Cash or van morrison for example but do respect the Huge impact both have made on the music industry.
You clearly know your cranberries alot more than most . One final thought I'd add it that it seemed to take her untimely death to get a renewed interest and appreciation of their music and that's kinda sad. As for her voice, loved it myself.

Flavio Josefo

gigantic09 wrote: »

Of course you can respect an artist without being a fan. I'm not a fan of Johnny Cash or van morrison for example but do respect the Huge impact both have made on the music industry.
You clearly know your cranberries alot more than most . One final thought I'd add it that it seemed to take her untimely death to get a renewed interest and appreciation of their music and that's kinda sad. As for her voice, loved it myself.

I agree that it is sad that it is necessary to die for an artist's legacy to be requalified. However, that did not happen at all with Dolores, although I understand that she can give that feeling.

It is true that since 2002/3 The Cranberries have never again been one of the 10 biggest bands of the moment, the releases of WUASMTC, Roses and Something Else did not give the expected results in terms of sales, since among these three they have barely reached 5,000,000 (no matter how much you refuse, sales indicate real interest in an artist).

But the 4 records of the 90's are enough to place The Cranberries in the Top100 of Rock History, and I would even say that the debut and No Need To Argue would be enough for it.

I can agree that The Cranberries, and more specifically Dolores in the 10s had a testimonial weight in the music scene, Roses is a clear example of 5/10, with some notable tracks but without adding anything new to the band.

In The End (2019) once again positioned this band in the music scene, it was the first time in the history of The Cranberries in which the critics treated the album better than the fan base itself, which I imagine must still be in shock and for the first few months he did not buy the album. I think ITE has already reached a million sales, and has even launched Something Else (2017) towards sales that were not seen since the WUASMTC (close to 2 million). To give you an idea, Roses sold 450,000 copies from 2012 to 2018.

There was an interest in The Cranberries before the death of Dolores, although I recognize that her departure has multiplied that interest, and those eagerness that we fans have for this band to receive its pertinent reevaluation.

They have always been undervalued by critics, and we want that to change.

Flavio Josefo

I apologize if I am a bit tiresome

Zak Flaps

Just going by their music/songs only, they were nothing special. Musically pretty safe mainstream stuff. Bland if you ask me. Nothing sophisticated. But they seemed to strike a chord with a lot of people. So many loved her voice. Funnily enough i hated her voice. Lyrically i don't really care as i've never been interested in the meaning of lyrics, only the sounds and rhythms of the words.
But each to their own. You seem to be obsessed wit them so best of luck to you.

I always liked them. Their songs are easy to listen too. I think people either love or hate Dolores but overall most people would like at least a song or two by the by the band.

She can have an annoying harsh voice in some songs which are often still strangely catchy but she can also soften it and they do have some lovely songs.

Have always loved When You're Gone but they had loads of other good ones like Pretty and Put Me Down that were not as well known.