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Lisbon, Portugal death number questions

  • 02-07-2021 3:02pm
    Registered Users Posts: 13,892 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951

    If someone can read Portuguese and confirm (or not) what I understand from the below links I would be grateful.

    As I understand it, some community group (Lisbon) brought a case to court to force officials to disclose actual numbers of deaths attributed directly to Covid-19. Apparently the number being bandied about was ~17,000 deaths from Covid.

    It appears from commentary on the results of the case that the actual number was 152 not 17,000!

    That seems extraordinary to the point of being unbelieveable.

    The only web pages I have been able to access are considered by some to be promotors of conspiracy theories ...... but I suppose that does not prevent them from printing actual facts at times.

    So here are the links ...... first the document in Portuguese and then some links I found .....

    Maybe someone with Portuguese would make the effort to give a translation of the important parts?

    This is my effort of part of the document ...
    Page: 7 of 16 of PDF

    4. On April 19, 2021, the Respondent submitted his response in the context of these notices of summons, there declaring that he did not have "any administrative document corresponding to sub-paragraphs a) to j) and n) to q) of art. "4" of the subpoena", but realizing that:
    "After analyzing the SICO replica base from 01-01-2020 to 18.04.2021, we were able to ascertain the following distributions so far:

    Between 2020 and 2021, 152 death certificates were issued by physicians working for the Ministry of Justice (INMLCF) whose basic cause of death was due to COVID 19 according to the following distribution:

    Of the 152 death certificates, 132 deaths the underlying cause was U071 (Covid 19-virus identified) and 20 deaths the underlying cause was U0702 (Covid 19 not identified in the laboratory).

    Of the 152 death certificates,148 deaths were exempted from autopsy, with 129 deaths having the underlying cause of death U0701 (Covid 19-virus identified) and 19 deaths the underlying cause of death being U0702 (Covid 19 not identified in the laboratory).

    Of the 152 deaths, 4 deaths did not require an autopsy, 3 of which the underlying cause of death was U0701 and 1 death the underlying cause was U0702 (cf. answer attached to pages 115-126 of the records in the SITAF, document that is fully reproduced.)

    5. By official letter dated 04.27.2021, the Applicants were notified of the response referred to in the previous point (cf. official letter on page 150 of the file in SITAF, document that is fully reproduced)

    The proof of the facts set forth above is based on the content of the documents attached to the case file, according to each one of them.
    Nothing else was proved with interest for the decision of the cause.

    It seems confusing which is why I hope someone with the required skils will read and post back.

    I am inclined to the view that the rest of the death certs mention Covid as a contributory factor and not the main cause ...... but that is part of what I hope can be clarified.

    BTW, on the matter of counting of 'cases' in Ireland, I noticed that RTE the other evening had added that the numbers they quoted included
    as well as
    cases. The first time I heard that from them.
    That made me wonder about the Irish figures.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE

    In Portugal a large number of different people can write death certs.

    152 have been written by employees of the Ministry of Justice. That's the office that deals with sudden deaths with unknown causes of death not under active medical care.

    The equivalent Irish example would be to ask AGS how many death certs related to covid have been written by doctors employed by AGS.

    There was 16950ish death certs written by other persons not affiliated to the ministry of justice with covid as the cause of death.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭ $hifty

    I had seen that written somewhere alright, but no link to back it up. Have you anything of any substance that I could read?

  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 62,376 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Beasty

    Conspiracy Theory it is

This discussion has been closed.