Lazy attitude to Ladies/Girls in Sport

greenspurs

KK Girls underage gf team supposed to be playing Louth next Wednesday at 7.30.
The Venue was supposed to be in Louth, wasnt confirmed.
Its a 3 team group , with 2 going through.

we got a text last night from the management to announce that they had decided to award a walkover to Louth.
The reason(s) being that due to covid restriction ( ) they couldnt organise a bus for the team.
Also, They felt they couldnt ask parents to travel all the way to Louth on a Weds evening, so they just gave the walkover.
He also said they asked Louth if they could/would move the game to a more central venue - Louth refused.

My point of view :
A) i have seen teams arriving to matches in buses ,only last sunday Treaty Fc played Waterford fc u19 in WIT arena.
there was also a Cork camogie (minor?) team playing at the same venue that also travelled by bus!
So i think this reason is false ?

Why wouldnt they put out a question.
"Would you travel with your child to Louth to allow the game to go ahead" - Im sure they would have gotten enough people to go!

C) In fairness, why should Louth move the game.

All in all its seems a bit lazy to just award a walkover without asking the parents to travel.
Its seems to be getting fairly typical now for some people not to bother to try keep girls interested in sports.
This may seem trivial to anyone not affected, but to those girls its fairly disheartening...

Pogue eile

What has any of the above got to do with the GAA?

That said I do agree with all the points you have made and it smacks of an instance where there was never any intention of full filling the fixture.

greenspurs

Pogue eile wrote: »

What has any of the above got to do with the GAA?

That said I do agree with all the points you have made and it smacks of an instance where there was never any intention of full filling the fixture.

Sorry typed in anger ! :rolleyes: :eek:

yes, its a weak argument :mad:
I doubt the same would happen with a boys either ! .....


* Could a Mod amend the heading to 'Sport' instead of Gaa ?

Pogue eile

greenspurs wrote: »

Sorry typed in anger ! :rolleyes: :eek:

yes, its a weak argument :mad:
I doubt the same would happen with a boys either ! .....


* Could a Mod amend the heading to 'Sport' instead of Gaa ?

I have to admit I don't have any first hand experience of dealing with the LGFA but they do seem to be a very poorly run outfit, the clash with the Camogie association last year being another example.

crossman47

I think this might smack more of Kks attitude to football. I could easily see it happening to boys there also, but not to hurlers.

greenspurs

Its very very casually run ..... well in Kilkenny anyway.

There seems to be just a lot of ticking boxes, and 'half ar$ing' things.....
I dont understand it to be honest, its very frustrating for parents, and immensely disheartening for the girls involved.....

A different under squad of 30 (!?!?!) were all required to pay 90 for "County" gear for an upcoming championship, they were told they would enter 2 teams, but not its emerging the 'bainisteoir' has decided to just field 1 team .......

Lip service, and half ar$ing ... its very prevalent.
Im not surprised so many girls walk away from sports .......

greenspurs

crossman47 wrote: »

I think this might smack more of Kks attitude to football. I could easily see it happening to boys there also, but not to hurlers.

Very true.
My own club just run a few GF sessions for the boys at the start of the season - box ticked.
Nothing then until u15 or 16 ..... :rolleyes:
Whereas , the girls are playing from U10 now, and have a lot of girls playing !

I was actually at another club ground during the week, and they had a split session - Boys Hurling first then Gf.
Coach after it - "Did yee enjoy that, me might play more the next night if yee train better when we are hurling" ....

The pity about the girls playing gf is that there is some serious talent in the county, and theres now a adult GF ladies team back in Kilkenny being restablished.
Theres massive interest playerwise, but maybe not so much from committees

JeffKenna

greenspurs wrote: »

Sorry typed in anger ! :rolleyes: :eek:

yes, its a weak argument :mad:
I doubt the same would happen with a boys either ! .....


* Could a Mod amend the heading to 'Sport' instead of Gaa ?

Should be changed to LGFA.
They seem completely incompetent even thinking back to that football semi final last year.

PARlance

Definitely not a lazy attitude to girls in Mayo anyway. My girl is training twice a week (1 hour and 1.5 hour session) and now the matches are starting to come thick and fast. She's U8.

I didn't train as much playing senior.

dobman88

We've seen many posts on this forum that pretty much say the same thing: the biggest threat to tge ladies game is the LGFA itself. A complete and utter shambles nationally and sounds like it's even worse locally for you.

Unfortunately, with all these things, the GAA takes the brunt of the criticism despite not having a single thing to do with the LGFA. I understand your anger and frustration but it is directed at the wrong organisation in this case.

theoneeyedman

crossman47 wrote: »

I think this might smack more of Kks attitude to football. I could easily see it happening to boys there also, but not to hurlers.

This.

History would illustrate that here is no heed on football in Kilkenny at all. I'd be of the opinion that the kilkenny boards should have central funding held back unless that promote the big ball game, in the same way as the likes of cavan were hit in the past for ignoring hurling.

The issue is less with girls V boys, than hurling v football, and these girls are getting fvcked around as a result, but if course a thread title saying the GAA has a lazy attitude towards girls catches more attention than a title about a non GAA organisation being ignored in a one sport county.

greenspurs

greenspurs wrote: »

Sorry typed in anger ! :rolleyes: :eek:

yes, its a weak argument :mad:
I doubt the same would happen with a boys either ! .....


* Could a Mod amend the heading to 'Sport' instead of Gaa ?

JeffKenna wrote: »

Should be changed to LGFA.

dobman88 wrote: »

Unfortunately, with all these things, the GAA takes the brunt of the criticism despite not having a single thing to do with the LGFA. I understand your anger and frustration but it is directed at the wrong organisation in this case.

theoneeyedman wrote: »

but if course a thread title saying the GAA has a lazy attitude towards girls catches more attention than a title about a non GAA organisation being ignored in a one sport county.

Jaysus alright ...
I have asked mods to amend the title..... :rolleyes:

ShamoBuc

Thread title changed.

Poor reasoning for not travelling in fairness. Possibly a kk issue towards football in general as I don't think this has happened elsewhere but maybe it has.

CrabRevolution

The bus excuse sounds like BS really.

Though expecting teams to travel the length of the province on a wednesday evening seems like poor planning to begin with.

I don't really see how it can be spun as a wider GAA/society wide thing when the people responsible are Kilkenny LGFA. Ladies Gaelic Football is the only sport they oversee so how can they be biased against the very activity they exist to organise? Sounds like they're just more incompetent than anything.

C__MC

Lgfa themselves are a shambles, no development squads this year will turn girls away from the sport

greenspurs

CrabRevolution wrote: »

The bus excuse sounds like BS really.

Though expecting teams to travel the length of the province on a wednesday evening seems like poor planning to begin with.

I don't really see how it can be spun as a wider GAA/society wide thing when the people responsible are Kilkenny LGFA. Ladies Gaelic Football is the only sport they oversee so how can they be biased against the very activity they exist to organise? Sounds like they're just more incompetent than anything.

Yes, its the fact that the banisteoir used the bus as a reason is what annoyed me.

Biased ? who mentioned bias? I said Lazy Attitude, and i agree with your incompetent.

greenspurs

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Thread title changed.

Poor reasoning for not travelling in fairness. Possibly a kk issue towards football in general as I don't think this has happened elsewhere but maybe it has.

I am between minds whether to contact the Kilkenny LGFA Secretary and Development officer and ask them is this acceptable by management and the way forward to promote and develop GF for girls/ladies in Kilkenny !

ShamoBuc

I certainly would look for an explanation. Might stop it happening again.

Hoboo

greenspurs wrote: »

I am between minds whether to contact the Kilkenny LGFA Secretary and Development officer and ask them is this acceptable by management and the way forward to promote and develop GF for girls/ladies in Kilkenny !

That would have been my immediate reply to the original text from management, in a phone call.

Ceist_Beag

In my limited experience of Kilkenny LGFA it certainly is not a positive experience. I'm not going to name clubs or go into details on here but suffice to say those making decisions appear to be doing so in a short sighted and self serving manner and it's clear to all that there is an issue when two clubs each have about 3 times the number of players of the best of the rest.
The other clubs are struggling to keep girls interested when they keep getting hammerings off these two clubs and the county board appear powerless to do anything to help them.
Whatever about the county team and the issues there, the club scene in the county appears even more disfunctional as far as I can see - at least in Roinn A.

greenspurs

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

In my limited experience of Kilkenny LGFA it certainly is not a positive experience. I'm not going to name clubs or go into details on here but suffice to say those making decisions appear to be doing so in a short sighted and self serving manner and it's clear to all that there is an issue when two clubs each have about 3 times the number of players of the best of the rest.
The other clubs are struggling to keep girls interested when they keep getting hammerings off these two clubs and the county board appear powerless to do anything to help them.
Whatever about the county team and the issues there, the club scene in the county appears even more disfunctional as far as I can see - at least in Roinn A.

Exactly.
And the coaches of these clubs always seem to get the management 'jobs' for the county underage teams?
And then play their own club girls before any other clubs girls get a look in.

We had the pleasure of hammering one of those Clubs in a county final recently , that may sound petty, but if you know the 'club' and the carry on, youd understand why every other club wants to beat them !

greenspurs

And then while entering the game last night , hand over your fiver, and handed a 'programme'

With the team named on it !!

Not nice for players to find out 45mins before the game that they are a sub when a stranger hands over a sheet of paper !

Bloody stupid carry on!

Swamp_Cat

https://boards.ie/discussion/2058197645/lazy-attitude-to-ladies-girls-in-sport

Not in any way is it trivial IMO.

For all the complaints about hurling, huge scorelines, 100+ meter points, and more I want to scream, go watch some camogie! Either people are just too biased or haven't seen camogie in a decade or more.

Actually had some clown telling me that a camogie player is not capable of providing analysis on a hurling match. He's still sticking with his completely backwards statement.

I know we're both camogie, & women's/girls sports fans but I think many are judging the game by turn on the century or older standards. To each their own but give it a shot if it's been a while. Rule changes have really had a very positive impact too. 🤙🏽

gormdubhgorm

There is a series on the RTE player related to the OP's question.

Titled ''Why Girls Quit Sport' presented by Anna Geary. She is trying to encourage girls from a school in Ringsend to play sport. Also discussed are the reasons why girls drop away from sport.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2021/0714/1234778-anna-geary-asks-was-i-part-of-the-problem-in-new-doc/

greenspurs

Fair play to Anna Geary for highlighting the situation.

The figures are frightening and shows how "2nd class" the girls are.

I heard her talking on a local radio station talking about the show, and she spoke about girls been treated poorly with fixtures and by the Gaa clubs (of course the Gaa clubs 'accomodate/facilitate/tolerate ladies GF and Camogie) where the boys/men get the good pitches, and i completely agree.

Of course , i understand if the LGFA and Camogie Association would agree/work to joining into the GAA, that would/should improve ...

In Kilkenny, Dicksboro Gaa and Dicksboro Camogie club have amalgamated recently , which i think will hugely benefit the girls up there, and it is a step that the two Clubs should be congratulated on!

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117612237#Comment_117612237

And the same for the Leinster Finals last night....

The teams were on the Leinster lgfa website before anyone got to the ground !!!....

Fupping ridiculous ......

LeoB

Whoever fixed that game needs a kick in the blox. Its a minimum 2 hour drive from KK to Darver center of excellence. That type of juvenile fixture is exactly why people walk away, not just players but parents.

The only way for this to change is for parents to speak up. Go on local radio, local papers and voice your concerns.

In my experience the LGFA and Camogie association are both a shambles. They are driving girls away from sport. Until clubs kick up locally it wont change. Smaller clubs who are as important as any big club need to put their own people forward to be involved on committees and as selectors. You need to be organized for next meeting of your local board.

If LGFA and Camogie association are brought into the GAA it should be needs to be ran by new people not here to fore involved.

greenspurs

Its never ending.

U15 Camogie feile on Sunday.

U16 Gf Tues + Thur

U16 Camogie on Wed

u15 GF Feile on Sunday...

Its fcuking bonkers....

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117688875#Comment_117688875

I totally agree that the only way to start to bring about change is for parents to speak up but how many would if it potentially would affect their daughter playing games in some form or another.

Yes only until clubs kick up locally may things change but you may have to go to media and the local radio and papers first as that will really bring the attention to this issue that both associations may not like.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117677025#Comment_117677025

Just on this .

I emailed the leinster GF secretary about the programmes about it.

The games Development officer replied :

"I have no idea what county you are from but your email and point we do not accept!!

The only person at fault here is the county manager!!

Rules have always been that team news is released three days before games, and the MANAGER should have done their job and named the team like all other counties do and have been doing for the past many many years.

I am sorry your daughter found out that way but you take that up with your own county manager who let their players down massively!

As per your email and keeping girls interested, we are operating at county level here and management teams name their teams at least 3-4 days before the game and send us there team list, they should have told the players ( there is no naming teams on the day of games at this level), please contact the county manager and or the county secretary and take it up with them to protect players from that embarrassing decision by the management team.

It is poor decisions like that why our players leave the sport. "

Its the managers fault - But as Lost Ormond said, if you speak out Are you risking alienating your child?

I dont understand how management teams cant do the right thing, if they are taken the responsibilty of coaching/training/managing teenagers in competitive teams.

Sort of an "a shur lookit/Twill be grand" approach to girls in sport ... Half ar$ed.

greenspurs

I f anyone wants to listen to WLRfm between 10 +12 today, they are supposed to be discussing the fixture chaos of camogie and GF .

https://www.wlrfm.com/podcasts/schedule

It will be available on their podcast to listen back to at a later time also.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804804#Comment_117804804

That's a brutal email - pushing the responsibility back on you rather than taking the initiative and saying "can you give us the details in confidence and we'll follow up with your county board & county manager"

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117805430#Comment_117805430

I thought that too.

It seems that the majority of people involved (that i know/dealt with) just do the bare minimum.

Half ar$ed seems to be the modus operandi for the girls.

County Boards ? seems morelike County Bored ....

Ceist_Beag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804804#Comment_117804804

As MacDanger said, that's an awful email.

No acceptance of any responsibility, the suggestion being that the county manager is not part of their remit and that somehow you are the one who needs to take this up with them. That email reads as a pure handwashing exercise and a badly phrased one at that. And to finish it off by slamming the county manager as being responsible for players leaving the sport as if it has absolutely nothing to do with them ... desperate stuff. A bad manager blames his/her staff when things go wrong and this certainly reads like that. If the county manager is at fault here that reflects badly on the organisation and Leinster LGFA should take responsibility, not throw their own volunteer under the bus like this. Is it any wonder volunteers are hard to come by if this is how they are treated.

greenspurs

https://www.wlrfm.com/listenback

If anyone wants to listen.

Click on Deise Today 10.00 -11.00

Forward on to 45mins.

CaboRoig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804804#Comment_117804804

It'd be fairly standard in men's and underage boy's inter county GAA to name teams for programmes a few days in advance of the fixture. And it would be reasonably common that the teams then might not actually line out as named 1 to 15 on the programme.

The Leinster LGFA secretary is 100% correct. If the team manager isn't informing the players of the starting team until shortly before throw in, that's not the fault of the organising body for the game.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804804#Comment_117804804

What was your email to them? You seem to blame them for printing the team and used that as a reason that girls are leaving the sport. I can see why they got defensive to be honest.

If their rules are to submit the team three days in advance and the manager knows it will be printed in the programme then it is entirely on the manager what happened.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117806629#Comment_117806629

How do parents to know that the management should be telling their squad who are starting in the match ?

All parents were handed the match programme going in, and read the starting teams, the girls didnt know the team until then.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117806629#Comment_117806629

My email that was sent to the Leinster Lgfa secretary - it was replied to by a games development officer.

Good morning.

My daughter was involved in the gf finals that were played last night.

The thing is , she , and everyone else involved, found out she/they weren’t starting by looking up the ‘Team news’ on your website!

Is that really the correct way to find out before you arrive at the ground for a leinster final?

I don’t think it is correct, on either the players or the management.

Its hard enough to keep girls interested in sports without the added pressure of everyone knowing the team before the management announce it!

Maybe the release of the teams could be delayed until after throw in, or after the game?

Apart from that gripe, I think the promotion of the finals was very good.

I hope you accept my point.

Tombo2001

Peculiar thread with a peculiar title. If I got a bad burger at my local McDonalds, would I call it "Declining Standards in Global Fast Food Chains"

One thing I will say is this - the most underappreciated and most widely criticized segment within the gaa is underage coaches.

You've a substantial thread on boards, radio interviews, Anna Geary weighing in on a person that in all probability has been giving up 3 or 4 evenings of their own personal time, over several years, to coach - for free - your kids OP and other peoples kids; and to also manage all the administrative thankless crap that goes around that.

And they make a decision that you dont like and all hell breaks loose.

Why would anyone bother.

FFS.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117810315#Comment_117810315

Peculiar ??

How so? Overall there is a lazy attitude to girls in sport. You would need to be blind to not see it.

I coach underage in gaa and soccer , so i know all about dedicating time...blah blah blah...

Being a "manager" involves all aspects of managing a team - all aspects even the bits you dont like - 'administrative thankless crap that goes around that'

Theres 4 people on the 'management team' to delegate the tasks involved.

" all hell breaks loose" -????

"And they make a decision that you dont like" - it wasnt a decision, it was that they failed to tell girls at training the night before a Leinster Final who was starting ??? I suppose that is a decision- a decision to not tell them....

"why would anyone bother" ?? bother playing? bother coaching? bother travelling to games ?

Take it easy on the sensationalism .

Tombo2001

Yeah maybe I'm blind.

I dont really see it. I see people making huge efforts. You obviously dont. Maybe its a glass half full half empty situation.

The one thing I would question wrt to girls in sport is that where the Gaa and Soccer are concerned, its nearly all dads doing the coaching. The mothers dont do it. (some do obviously, but its way more the dads). If I was to pick one area where I think people need to stop making excuses it would be there.

rebel girl 15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117572847#Comment_117572847

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117688875#Comment_117688875

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117570392#Comment_117570392

Camogie will be under the GAA wing faster than the LGFA, when you have one person at the top for nearly 25 years you can see what happens.

The Camogie have put it into their rulebook about facilitating the dual player - but I know in the past it was a case of one organisation fixing their fixtures and the other putting their games in before them.

The biggest problem with county boards is that people take positions to benefit their own club - and nothing else. I've seen it everywhere - you'll have a few on a board who are there for the right reasons and others who are there for the wrong reasons. Because so much power is at the top, you can't rattle the cage too much for fear of retribution.

On the whole KK debacle - Leinster Council should never have fixed a game like that for midweek - that is extremely poor. The excuse re the bus is valid, but at the same time mitigations can be made i.e. mask wearing etc. What the county manager did, not naming the team is old school - in this day and age the teams are out on social media before the game so the manager is completely at fault there - teams need to be named the same night the details go to the relevant boards

rebel girl 15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117809296#Comment_117809296

It was down to your teams manager - in this day and age the squads for every intercounty game are named well before throw in, they are an essential part of promotion - if I were you I'd email your county secretary or county development officer. The management team need to be spoken to about it - they may not be aware that the team list goes into the board for a programme (though they should be). A situation like this is down to management - there is a massive amount of admin involved, but that is now excuse for girls finding out they are playing/not playing in a Leinster final via the match programme

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812081#Comment_117812081

Huge efforts - yes i agree, but at grassroots, its half ar$ed.

Whats wrong with dads/Men coaching? Excuses?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117809296#Comment_117809296

I accept your point but it seems your anger is misdirected. The rules are the team are in 3 days in advance. The manager knows the team he put in, he knows it will be shown in the programme and he still doesn't tell his players in advance. Thats entirely down to the manager. Why can the manager not tell them during the week?

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821709#Comment_117821709

As i have pointed out, i wasnt aware of the naming of the teams situation.

As i said then , they had training the night before the final and they still didnt tell the players.

I understand now it was a failure on the part of the management team.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821680#Comment_117821680

What are you basing that on? Half arsed?

Based on what you see at your local club?

What do you know about grass roots training in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Mayo? Really....what evidence do you have for this.

From what I see, the girls get at underage absolutely equal status when it comes to resources and effort.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821827#Comment_117821827

based on what i see.

Club and county under age.

And what i see/read about ladies at intercounty level.

Girls do not recieve equal status - 2nd choice for pitches.

Feile on yesterday , no marking on pitches for them.

Are you involved yourself ?

LeoB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821680#Comment_117821680

If Dad's don't do it it wont be done. People are reluctant to take on teams now with the commitment involved so its easier if you have a parent who is willing to get involved and maybe bring in his own coach which is what I have seen in my club especially at younger age groups. Some get involved having no experience and that is fine up to U/11 or 12 but when coaching gets more serious it is different situation.

From what I have seen women are not as assertive on sidelines, the male voice maybe because of tone carries more "passion", "venom" or "fire".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821860#Comment_117821860

Girls do not receive equal status because of how LGFA and Camogie are ran. Who can take them seriously? You give up your main pitch and they decide to move game and tell no one. Or the other organise a game to clash.

If the pitch wasnt marked that is fault of club hosting feile and is extremely bad form.

I have seen some shite at both club and county level (underage) the favours in fixtures etc. It is getting better as clubs develop the female sections and will continue to improve IF parents stay involved and get more support from other parents and basically replicate what the boys teams do. I know in my club camogie and ladies football are treated very equally and that is down to people working together.

greenspurs

An update:

Re fixtures clashing for dual players.

"Apologies for the delay in responding but with volunteers on holidays it has been difficult to get a Leinster LGFA meeting. However, we did have one this week and I raised your correspondence with Management.

 

It was agreed that the issues outlined in your correspondence is very valid and one echoed by Kilkenny LGFA delegates. This year has been a particularly difficult one for everyone and matters on the pitch haven't been helped by having to condense players seasons over such a short period. It is one that we are committed to reviewing and it was agreed that Leinster LGFA will raise your concerns with our counter parts in Kilkenny Camogie. We also would ask that a similar communication take place at county level as we feel the issue is within the county and therefore the solution remains there too.

 

Our games development officer is working very hard within Kilkenny and you are piloting a new LGFA coach development program which can only be beneficial to all involved but it can only be a success if all associations play their part too.

 

Apologies for any delay and I wish you well in the future. "