Credit union funds

LMHC

Can someone tell me say if someone saves in the CU. Is the CU obligated to notify regulators if large sums of money is going through the account. I've recently set up a business, my bank and me have had issue about their policies regarding disclosing my banking to external agencies.


Are CU funds protected and are they under the same rigours as banks?

Atlantic Dawn

If it's cash once it's over €10k in one go or linked transactions to that amount the financial institution has to report it.

c.p.w.g.w

LMHC wrote: »

Can someone tell me say if someone saves in the CU. Is the CU obligated to notify regulators if large sums of money is going through the account. I've recently set up a business, my bank and me have had issue about their policies regarding disclosing my banking to external agencies.


Are CU funds protected and are they under the same rigours as banks?

Under newer legislation, they have to declare amounts over a specific amount is my understanding...

I recently sold a few bikes and bit and bobs, went to lodge 2,300€ into my CU, and I was asked a number of questions (including where the money was from)

Timing belt

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If it's cash once it's over €10k in one go or linked transactions to that amount the financial institution has to report it.

They also don’t need to tell you that they have reported it as that would be tipping you off. The bank or CU will just do it in the background if they have a reason to be suspicious or if over 10k in cash (even in multiple smaller amounts).

Credit unions, like all regulated entities, are entitled to implement their own risk based approach when it comes to preventing financial crime.

Practically speaking, that often looks like seeking source of funds information, and sometimes proof, for large transactions. For instance, if an employee plumber often lodges large cash amounts and shifts money around a bit, this can raise a flag and a credit union or any other regulated entity is entitled to query it. If the customer refuses to disclose then it may be deemed suspicious and reported.

This can be a massive pain in the ass for customers at times but the reality is that CUs and banks are regularly used for money laundering, tax avoidance, even people smuggling. For the last decade or so, the obligation has been put on them to ensure they don't allow their businesses to be used for financial crime and so to have adequate controls in place. Which is reasonable given that they are at the beginning and end of any transaction and are profiting (bigly) off them.

LMHC

Cheers for that folks

LMHC

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Under newer legislation, they have to declare amounts over a specific amount is my understanding...

I recently sold a few bikes and bit and bobs, went to lodge 2,300€ into my CU, and I was asked a number of questions (including where the money was from)

I bought a watch over a certain amount and Fields jewellery shop had to inform the revenue. But I then found out if I split between card and cash and both under the amount they couldn't of reported.

RulesOfNature

LMHC wrote: »

I bought a watch over a certain amount and Fields jewellery shop had to inform the revenue. But I then found out if I split between card and cash and both under the amount they couldn't of reported.

How much was the watch??

LMHC

LMHC wrote: »

I bought a watch over a certain amount and Fields jewellery shop had to inform the revenue. But I then found out if I split between card and cash and both under the amount they couldn't of reported.

They could of

corner of hells

LMHC wrote: »

I bought a watch over a certain amount and Fields jewellery shop had to inform the revenue. But I then found out if I split between card and cash and both under the amount they couldn't of reported.

What makes you think Fields informed revenue?

LMHC

corner of hells wrote: »

What makes you think Fields informed revenue?

They told me when I purchased it.

LMHC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They could of

No they can't call Fields and ask.

LMHC

RulesOfNature wrote: »

How much was the watch??

It was enough for them to report

corner of hells

RulesOfNature wrote: »

How much was the watch??

Just over 6000 euro .

Atlantic Dawn

LMHC wrote: »

They told me when I purchased it.

Them telling you could have got them in trouble.

L1011

Splitting transactions to think you stay under notification limits has a far higher chance of it being notified to both Revenue *and* CAB as smurfing

griffin100

On the other side of the coin my mother tried to withdraw €10k from BOI a couple of weeks ago and they wouldn't give it to her until she explained whet she needed it for. The irony was she wanted to take her money out of BOI and put it into the local post office as she found BOI a pain in the ass to deal with and the PO is only across the road and is very helpful.

TP_CM

LMHC wrote: »

They told me when I purchased it.

Did you have to hand over your PPS/Date of Birth then to Fields before buying it?

LMHC

TP_CM wrote: »

Did you have to hand over your PPS/Date of Birth then to Fields before buying it?

No when they used me debit card he then produced a small form like half A4. Asked for address and full name as appears on driving license or Passport. And he said they are required to notify then.

Ri_Nollaig

LMHC wrote: »

I bought a watch over a certain amount and Fields jewellery shop had to inform the revenue. But I then found out if I split between card and cash and both under the amount they couldn't of reported.

did you pay entirely with cash or something?

LMHC

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

did you pay entirely with cash or something?

Me debit card.

Ri_Nollaig

I've bought an expensive watch before too (Keane's in Cork) and they never asked...

I know watches and other jewellery can be in 4 or 5 (even 6) figure sums and probably an easy way to launder money. How often do we see those CAB seizures with nice cars and rolexes. I do remember someone in Keanes did tell me they often sold Pateks as cash purchases.

What about cars? Have often wondered if you rocked into a dealership with a bag of money would they care.

Leg End Reject

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

I've bought an expensive watch before too (Keane's in Cork) and they never asked...

I know watches and other jewellery can be in 4 or 5 (even 6) figure sums and probably an easy way to launder money. How often do we see those CAB seizures with nice cars and rolexes. I do remember someone in Keanes did tell me they often sold Pateks as cash purchases.

What about cars? Have often wondered if you rocked into a dealership with a bag of money would they care.

The dealer would need to lodge the money so they'd care in the regard. You can't walk into a bank and lodge a large sum without question.

Whether they'd lodge the full amount is a different story, but you'd have a lot of cash to hide under the mattress from the sale of a luxury car, and the buyer would know this too ...

AndrewJRenko

Heartwarming to hear how our jewelry industry enables tax-evaders and criminals.

tscul32

A lot of the credit unions now have limits to how much you can have in your account. Ours has a €15k limit. We needed to withdraw the excess.

AndrewJRenko

tscul32 wrote: »

A lot of the credit unions now have limits to how much you can have in your account. Ours has a €15k limit. We needed to withdraw the excess.

Did they actually make you withdraw? I've heard of them refusing further deposits, or switching balances over the limit out of the share account to a demand account, but I didn't think they were forcing people to withdraw funds?

myfreespirit

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did they actually make you withdraw? I've heard of them refusing further deposits, or switching balances over the limit out of the share account to a demand account, but I didn't think they were forcing people to withdraw funds?

Yes, a credit union that I am a member of, wrote to me saying that I needed to withdraw an amount that was over their limit, they then posted out a cheque for that amount.

tscul32

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did they actually make you withdraw? I've heard of them refusing further deposits, or switching balances over the limit out of the share account to a demand account, but I didn't think they were forcing people to withdraw funds?

Yes, it was a cheque, like above, unless otherwise directed. I got them to transfer it back to my bank account.

Montage of Feck

Just say you won it on the horses.

LMHC

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Heartwarming to hear how our jewelry industry enables tax-evaders and criminals.

Who's a tax evader or criminal. I wanted to buy a watch I'm entitled to if I'm working hard.

LMHC

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Just say you won it on the horses.

Doesn't work anymore thank Gilligan. You need a receipt if the money is claimed as winnings

the beer revolu

LMHC wrote: »

Who's a tax evader or criminal. I wanted to buy a watch I'm entitled to if I'm working hard.

No one accused you of this.

LMHC

the beer revolu wrote: »

No one accused you of this.

He replied as I had explained the jeweller was gonna split me payment.

AndrewJRenko

LMHC wrote: »

Who's a tax evader or criminal. I wanted to buy a watch I'm entitled to if I'm working hard.

If you're entitled to buy the watch, you'll have nothing to fear from any Revenue reporting and won't need to split the payment.

As it happens, the comment was about the obvious trend of jewelers playing fast and loose with anti-money laundering laws. We've all seen the Rolexes seized at Garda raids, so obviously criminals are attracted to this area, and are being facilitated by jewelers.

LMHC

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If you're entitled to buy the watch, you'll have nothing to fear from any Revenue reporting and won't need to split the payment.

As it happens, the comment was about the obvious trend of jewelers playing fast and loose with anti-money laundering laws. We've all seen the Rolexes seized at Garda raids, so obviously criminals are attracted to this area, and are being facilitated by jewelers.

You can buy a Rolex for a few grand. Not necessarily large scale gangsterism wage

Damien360

LMHC wrote: »

Doesn't work anymore thank Gilligan. You need a receipt if the money is claimed as winnings

Was it not Bertie rather than Gilligan ? One is crook and the other a gangster. He had a full years salary in a suitcase and said he couldn’t remember where it came from and laughed. Paddy the plasterer became famous out of it.

LMHC

Damien360 wrote: »

Was it not Bertie rather than Gilligan ? One is crook and the other a gangster. He had a full years salary in a suitcase and said he couldn’t remember where it came from and laughed. Paddy the plasterer became famous out of it.

Gilligan tried to say he won his fortune on the Gigi's

AndrewJRenko

LMHC wrote: »

You can buy a Rolex for a few grand. Not necessarily large scale gangsterism wage

Why do you think the jewellers are so quick to offer to split payments to avoid anti money laundering reporting?

gogo

griffin100 wrote: »

On the other side of the coin my mother tried to withdraw €10k from BOI a couple of weeks ago and they wouldn't give it to her until she explained whet she needed it for. The irony was she wanted to take her money out of BOI and put it into the local post office as she found BOI a pain in the ass to deal with and the PO is only across the road and is very helpful.

BOI were 100% right in this instance, not sure what’s ironic here only that the bank are following the law?
It’s not like the bank are making up the rules, their a regulated entity?

gogo

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

What about cars? Have often wondered if you rocked into a dealership with a bag of money would they care.

Any of the well known car dealers would care.. if they offer finance they have to be qualified with a min qualified financial advisor title.. it makes them well aware of the law and what they can and can’t do. Car dealing has always been flagged as a high risk industry compliance wise so I’d imagine they are monitored extremely closely by revenue. Any one worth their salt wouldn’t take the risk… that said there is always a few who will flout the law …

Stihl waters

Deleted User wrote: »

They could of

Have

BorneTobyWilde

griffin100 wrote: »

On the other side of the coin my mother tried to withdraw €10k from BOI a couple of weeks ago and they wouldn't give it to her until she explained whet she needed it for. The irony was she wanted to take her money out of BOI and put it into the local post office as she found BOI a pain in the ass to deal with and the PO is only across the road and is very helpful.

Surely best to open PO Account first, then do a transfer from one account to the other.

gogo

gogo wrote: »

Any of the well known car dealers would care

Anecdotal experience tells me that many simply won't take a large bag of cash off you in the first place, as apparently the chance of them being robbed by someone that evening is quite high.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why do you think the jewellers are so quick to offer to split payments to avoid anti money laundering reporting?

There's no legal requirement to report transactions over a certain amount. There is a requirement to report transactions that are suspicious.

There is a requirement to identify customers for transactions over a certain amount.

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's no legal requirement to report transactions over a certain amount. There is a requirement to report transactions that are suspicious.

There is a requirement to identify customers for transactions over a certain amount.

Either way, the threat shows a clear trend of deliberate evasion of the legal requirements by a number of jewellers.

Ri_Nollaig

LMHC wrote: »

You can buy a Rolex for a few grand. Not necessarily large scale gangsterism wage

Cheapest Rolex is the OP in 36mm and even that is around €5,000 (if you can find one that will sell it to you). Its precious metal, DateJust/DayDates that attract the type who drive white Range Rovers and they can all be north of €20k. (Gold DayDate is €35k for example). They are also the models thats the Jewelers will happily put an order in for you while you have to join a multi-year wait list for the standard ("cheaper") Stainless Steel models.

RulesOfNature

corner of hells wrote: »

Just over 6000 euro .

They have to report purchases of over 6000eu? I assume this is not unique to watch merchants.

Good to know- 6k is the threshold.

knucklehead6

LMHC wrote: »

I was told in Sheeran's if I'd of bought there he'd of split the money card and cash.

They might HAVE been able to, but he’d of been a naughty boy if he did.

corner of hells

RulesOfNature wrote: »

They have to report purchases of over 6000eu? I assume this is not unique to watch merchants.

Good to know- 6k is the threshold.

Thats the most expensive watch advertised in Feilds, the threshold is 10k.

Jim2007

LMHC wrote: »

I was told in Sheeran's if I'd of bought there he'd of split the money card and cash.

It does not matter if it is split or not they are obligated to report such a transaction as it fall under the category of MLA suspicious behavior. A failure to do so could result in a prosecution and actively suggesting such behavior is an even bigger issue.

If shop assistants are suggesting this kind of thing to random strangers who walk into the premises, then it’s a really really dumb thing to do.

brightspark

griffin100 wrote: »

On the other side of the coin my mother tried to withdraw €10k from BOI a couple of weeks ago and they wouldn't give it to her until she explained whet she needed it for. The irony was she wanted to take her money out of BOI and put it into the local post office as she found BOI a pain in the ass to deal with and the PO is only across the road and is very helpful.

They may have been trying to protect her from being scammed.