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Withholding Poo

  • #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭ roosterman71


    Anyone ever have any dealings with a toddler withholding poo? Our lad, nearly 3 has started it. Had to be brought to A&E last week cos he hadn't gone in 5 days and was in bits. They administered something to soften it, and 5 nappies later it was all out and he was his old self. He's on movicol now (3 sachets today, up to 4 tomorrow) but hasn't pooped since Thursday evening. He's in the horrors here trying to hold it in. He would be visibly shaking tensing up to hold it. Don't know what to do. If he'd just let it out he'd be grand but being nearly 3, reasoning and logic don't register. Neither do treats, or punishment. Any tips before we end up back in A&E?


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Comments



  • Bribe him?

    Chocolate or jelly or crisps (whatever floats his boat) for doing a #2.




  • daheff wrote: »
    Bribe him?

    Chocolate or jelly or crisps (whatever floats his boat) for doing a #2.

    Tried it, and no. He sees toys that are new and he has been told he'll get one when he does it. "I don't want to do my poopie" and floods of tears. Promised a biscuit, a tv show, a star, a book, anything! Same result. Same result if we say he can't do something he wants to do until he poops.




  • Does it hurt him when he does it( or had an episode recently that did)?

    Maybe hes afraid to do it?




  • Yeah he's afraid. The movicol will have it softened so it will be soft coming out. He just needs to let it out. That's the problem. No way. Like in his bath tonight he wouldn't sit, stood gripping the handle on the bath, all tensed keeping his arse cheeks clenched and balling crying.




  • Can you get him to sit on the potty (nappy on or off) and just watch some TV or a tablet or something

    Give him lots of water as well to help him out

    If you can get him to relax and take his mind off then nature might hopefully take its course as they say

    Give him lots of positive reinforcement when he does go, he's got a bit of a negative association with it and basically you need to turn it around so he looks forward to it.

    Rather than offering bribes to do something good, reward him when he does good things so he starts to feel it isn't forced

    Overall, just try to stay calm, it'll work itself out eventually


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  • Yeah he's afraid. The movicol will have it softened so it will be soft coming out. He just needs to let it out. That's the problem. No way. Like in his bath tonight he wouldn't sit, stood gripping the handle on the bath, all tensed keeping his arse cheeks clenched and balling crying.

    This is going back a good number of years, but my lad was similar. He was found to have had an anal fissure. Might be worth checking out as it didn’t bleed much, so I wasn’t aware of it. It had bled after a difficult poo, but obviously took time to heal and was hurting him.




  • Sometimes my eldest had issues with constipation when little. I would cuddle up with him for a movie, get him drinking fluids and gently massage his lower back. It often helped get it moving and helped relax him to allow it to happen.




  • Can you get him to sit on the potty (nappy on or off) and just watch some TV or a tablet or something

    Give him lots of water as well to help him out

    If you can get him to relax and take his mind off then nature might hopefully take its course as they say

    Give him lots of positive reinforcement when he does go, he's got a bit of a negative association with it and basically you need to turn it around so he looks forward to it.

    Rather than offering bribes to do something good, reward him when he does good things so he starts to feel it isn't forced

    Overall, just try to stay calm, it'll work itself out eventually

    Stay calm! Good one :)
    Both of us here are at the end of our tether. It's horrible seeing him in pain and the solution being so easy. We know he's scared, but we can't help him. Even relaxing watching telly he;ll sit for a few minutes and then ball crying again with the usual line and he's in the terrors then holding it.
    Maryanne84 wrote: »
    This is going back a good number of years, but my lad was similar. He was found to have had an anal fissure. Might be worth checking out as it didn’t bleed much, so I wasn’t aware of it. It had bled after a difficult poo, but obviously took time to heal and was hurting him.

    He had a fissure but A&E told us it was nearly healed.




  • Stay calm! Good one :)
    He had a fissure but A&E told us it was nearly healed.

    It can be painful for some time. Are you rubbing anything on it? I’m trying to remember the pain relief cream that I was given for him. It’s sometimes used for piles!




  • Stay calm! Good one :)
    Both of us here are at the end of our tether. It's horrible seeing him in pain and the solution being so easy. We know he's scared, but we can't help him. Even relaxing watching telly he;ll sit for a few minutes and then ball crying again with the usual line and he's in the terrors then holding it.

    Yeah I know, everyone says stay calm but it's easier said than done, I've been there as well :(

    You'll all get through this, it's a difficult patch but he'll get better in time


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  • Ah he is almost 3, he won't understand that it doesn't hurt until he goes a few more times.
    Don't bribe or punish.
    It is easy to say stay calm while you are banging your head against a wall but honestly it is the only way.
    Loads of fruit, water and movement and it will happen...




  • A bit gack I know, but maybe if he could do it in the bath the water, warmth etc would help with the pain caused by the fissure?




  • Baybay wrote: »
    A bit gack I know, but maybe if he could do it in the bath the water, warmth etc would help with the pain caused by the fissure?

    Tried that but he won't sit. Sitting means he can't keep his arse as tight and hold it so he stands only. Stands all rigid and tensed. I don't know how he does it. Some feat of mind power and muscle control




  • Could you bring him to your GP now/today roosterman, to prevent an A&E visit by yourselves? At least it would make the GP aware of the issue and maybe they could help you with it as an ongoing thing, rather than having to do dashes to A&E.




  • shesty wrote: »
    Could you bring him to your GP now/today roosterman, to prevent an A&E visit by yourselves? At least it would make the GP aware of the issue and maybe they could help you with it as an ongoing thing, rather than having to do dashes to A&E.

    Been there twice. They referred us to A&E. They had given the same course of Movicol as A&E gave when we were there.

    4 days now, still holding. He's done 1 in 8 days and that was from the stuff A&E put in to get it moving




  • Ah that's annoying.I understand the GP mightn't have been able to help on the spot and it may have needed an A&E visit once, but surely he could help you out longer term with it once it was resolved the first time by A&E.
    I guess up the movicol, keep up the fruit and water and fingers crossed he just has to go soon.




  • Sounds rough, the poor thing. Have you tried sitting him on a potty or standing with a nappy and showing him something similar to pirate Pete potty training but one specifically for poohing ? Cartoons can succeed where we fail.




  • Try the Poo goes to Pooland app and encourage things like blowing bubbles while on the toilet to encourage deep breathing.




  • Sounds rough, the poor thing. Have you tried sitting him on a potty or standing with a nappy and showing him something similar to pirate Pete potty training but one specifically for poohing ? Cartoons can succeed where we fail.
    Musefan wrote: »
    Try the Poo goes to Pooland app and encourage things like blowing bubbles while on the toilet to encourage deep breathing.

    Tried all that to no avail. We decided today to just try support him as best we could and trusted that a) the movicol will keep things soft so as not to be constipated, and b) that nature will eventually win out over will power and it will escape.

    I'm delighted to say, at 6:02pm nature did it's thing. The Mrs was holding him up, held him so he was kinda in a squat position and eventually the muscle relaxed and out it came. Managed to catch a bit with a pot, but the most landed on a towel on the ground, with more on the mat. Don't care. I'll happily burn the mat!

    From that point on, no change. He'd spent the day in the horrors and floods of tears. "I don't like the pain", "I don't want to do my poopie", "I don't want to cry all the time". Over and over. Once the 6:02 left the station, he stayed repeating the same lines. He was no better.

    I brought him outside and got him playing with a garden hose. And a second load filled a nappy. He couldn't understand how it didn't hurt him. Happy days.

    At 7:54pm, he did another. He put up a little fight but eventually let it out. All delighted and proud of himself then. He's back to himself now. Relief all round.

    It's not over. He must remember now it won't hurt and not hold on again. Fingers crossed. I'll report back in a few days.

    Be careful out there. This one is a toughie for all concerned :D




  • Good to hear.

    Níl aon tóin tinn mar do thóin tinn féin.

    I had a kidney stone last year that required a procedure. Between 22 different drugs over a 3-week period and the physical trauma (the body can sometimes think "Things aren't right, we must have eaten something dodgy, lets get rid of everything, NOW!"), bowel movements were for a time all too erratic - and sometimes violent. There was pain and occasionally, there were small amounts of blood. A endoscopy cleared me of anything more malign.

    My experiences in life point to three issues in that area.
    * Piles - can feel like a piece of hot lead. Generally above the rectum.
    * Tears - within the rectum. Feels like any cut, except you can't see it (well not your own anyway), except it gets stretched and irritated with every bowel movement. It felt like I was trying to pass Lego at times. Is there any possibility he swallowed something inappropriate? Lego, metal, spicy food?
    * General irritation - at the anus. Thank you Lidl toilet roll, that I had to use all too much at the time.

    I understand that Movicol does not taste nice, especially for a child. You might check if Moviprep or some other product is suitable.

    You might check with the GP if there is anything dietary that you should do. While high-fibre foods might make things softer, getting to have a break from 'mandatory' bowel movements would help with healing. Low residue foods could do this.

    You might check if there is something that can be done for the mental trauma for all three.


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  • Ah god the poor fella. Hopefully all goes well for him now




  • To be completely gross....having given birth 3 times and experienced the aftermath....nature wins out all the time, especially if enough fruit and liquid are going in.




  • Poor little guy and poor you guys, so stressful. I had the misfortune of an anal fissure myself and the pain was really horrific and I used to want to cry when I knew I needed to go!
    Just a few things you probably already know. It can take a few weeks to heal fully. I was prescribed scheripropt or something like that which speeds up healing.
    It can reoccur if constipation continues and stools become too hard. So like your doing loads of water, fruit, and fibre. All bran is a godsend if he would take it.
    Hopefully your over the worst now though, sounds like he's on the mend!
    Edit to say GP recommend keeping stools very soft and loose to promote healing and this made a huge difference. lactulose fresenius is a gentle stool softener very sweet to taste. Chat to your GP and see what they recommend but definitely make it as painless as possible for him until its better.




  • We had a little one in the extended family get into an awful state with this and it took a very long time to sort. This can progress to be severe in some cases and then faecal impaction can really ruin the normal operation of the colon, so the idea that nature always wins out is not quite true. Oddly enough I have heard about quite a few children having these kinds of troubles.

    But you said something important, that the mrs had him supported almost in a squat when he finally let go. That is the natural position for pooping so maybe if there was some way to put a child squat attachment onto the toilet? Or blocks for his feet to raise his knees above his hips. Or you might think this mad, but his own little outdoor squat compost toilet to keep him regular.
    Normal sitting actually compresses the colon a bit and is not ideal...for any of us as it happens.

    Also you can buy sitz baths that can sit over a loo and you can fill it with warm water and a bit of epsom salt and a drop of lavender oil to help the last bit of healing for the fissure.




  • We had similar with my daughter recently, she point blank refused movical couldn’t even sneak it into anything.
    We found the glycerin suppositories helped when we caught the issue early.
    Handy to have in the press




  • Another day down. All good. Still complaining that he doesn't want to do it, but he does it. It's fairly soft so no issues getting it out. Nearly comes out itself. 2 unloads today brings it to 5 in 24 hours!
    annoyedgal wrote: »
    Poor little guy and poor you guys, so stressful. I had the misfortune of an anal fissure myself and the pain was really horrific and I used to want to cry when I knew I needed to go!
    Just a few things you probably already know. It can take a few weeks to heal fully. I was prescribed scheripropt or something like that which speeds up healing.
    It can reoccur if constipation continues and stools become too hard. So like your doing loads of water, fruit, and fibre. All bran is a godsend if he would take it.
    Hopefully your over the worst now though, sounds like he's on the mend!
    Edit to say GP recommend keeping stools very soft and loose to promote healing and this made a huge difference. lactulose fresenius is a gentle stool softener very sweet to taste. Chat to your GP and see what they recommend but definitely make it as painless as possible for him until its better.
    We're on the Movicol now for the foreseeable. Aim with it is to keep things soft so that the fissure can heal and it won't hurt him letting it out. He eats lots of fruits and brown bread. Always has. Lucky that way I guess.
    isha wrote: »
    We had a little one in the extended family get into an awful state with this and it took a very long time to sort. This can progress to be severe in some cases and then faecal impaction can really ruin the normal operation of the colon, so the idea that nature always wins out is not quite true. Oddly enough I have heard about quite a few children having these kinds of troubles.

    But you said something important, that the mrs had him supported almost in a squat when he finally let go. That is the natural position for pooping so maybe if there was some way to put a child squat attachment onto the toilet? Or blocks for his feet to raise his knees above his hips. Or you might think this mad, but his own little outdoor squat compost toilet to keep him regular.
    Normal sitting actually compresses the colon a bit and is not ideal...for any of us as it happens.

    Also you can buy sitz baths that can sit over a loo and you can fill it with warm water and a bit of epsom salt and a drop of lavender oil to help the last bit of healing for the fissure.
    We're past the impaction phase now. Had that and A&E loosened it. Keeping it soft now is the key. It is a common problem in boys moreso. The squat hold has a tough one. He didn't want to be in that position as it does release the muscles he's trying to tighten. He's not potty trained yet and the last thing we're going to do now is try introduce that. He knows about it and what it's for and sometimes he'll ask to #1 in a pot. We'll carry on as we are for now and ramp up that training after a few weeks.
    OrlaFS2017 wrote: »
    We had similar with my daughter recently, she point blank refused movical couldn’t even sneak it into anything.
    We found the glycerin suppositories helped when we caught the issue early.
    Handy to have in the press
    Cooling the mixture in the fridge makes it more palatable. Or mix it into a fruit smoothie. We got one in Dunnes in a 1ltr carton. Seems to have nothing only fruit listed and no sweetners. He likes it so we mix some in there too. Get her onto a stool softner of some sort. I don't like the idea of her letting it build up. If it gets too packed in there the signal to unload doesn't get sent so you need the suppository then. Keeping it moist and more runny keeps the nerves sending the signal being activated. Plus the suppository could lead to a lazy bowel.




  • We went through the horrors of this op. A few things I found helped - horse whatever keeps the system moving into him. Liquorice is good, lots of fruit, and fruit juices. Heaps of water, don't worry about junk or sugary stuff for now until he gets fully over the Fear.

    According to the creche staff at the time, they said they've seen it happen with almost all of their preschoolers at some point or another, it's very common apparently.

    A good distraction and also a physical thing - get him to blow bubbles on the loo. You can't hold your sphincter shut while exhaling. So get bubble pots and keep him blowing while he's going.

    When my lad was three, I explained it with his dinky cars to him. He loved lining up his cars end to end so I explained (with a googled diagram showing the digestive tract) and set it up on the carpet with a 'gate' that was only wide enough for one car. So I explained that every days meals = one poo (car) so the red car was Monday's meals, the blue was Tuesdays meals etc. And each of those cars passed through the gate nice and easy until one car wouldn't go, so some of the other cars behind it got cross and tried to squeeze in and it became a pile up etc...you get the idea. :D It really helped him understand the mechanics of the digestive system.

    The other thing I did when he was at his worst was get him to squat in the shower, running the warm water down his back so it would soothe his bum while he did his thing, and helped confuse the sensations in that area so he wasn't focused on it, and that worked nicely. A bit gross but chucking the result in the loo plus copious amounts of domestoes afterwards sorted that and honestly after days and days of him crying and getting me to rub his tummy and spending days on end in the bathroom cajoling/bribing/soothing him I wouldn't have cared where he did it! It was either that or the suppository so he was more fearful of the suppository, understandably enough. And in one of our bathrooms the shower hose reached as far as the loo for his regular days when he was fine and it was all Fear.

    It repeated for us because sadly, we took our eye off the ball and didn't monitor it on a daily basis until he was old enough to remember himself. So don't be us! We got a whiteboard, did a weekly table on it and drew a poo emoji every day he did one and a sad face when he didn't and that reminded us all. We all got very adept at drawing that emoji. Years on it's all a distant memory thankfully!




  • Also (having recently trained a 3 year old boy).....don't rush into the toilet training.There's no hurry and he will get it but you're right to get him sorted for this first.




  • Going through the exact same thing with my almost-3-year-old at the moment. We potty trained him about 2 weeks ago, he got it super-quick with hardly any accidents. He has the weeing down no problem and at first was fine with poos, but over the past week has been holding his poo and like the OP's little one, no bribe in the world will work. I'm assuming that he had a painful one and now is freaked out. He's in tears and has had me in tears too, feeling so helpless. Have a doctor's appointment booked for early next week but I can see us having to go to the D-Doc or A&E over the weekend if it doesn't improve.

    We're at the end of our tether here. It's so stressful. Doesn't help that I'm due #2 (pun intended!) in 3 weeks! I don't know how we're going to cope with a newborn and dealing with this issue.



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  • It's a toughie! If they don't go ya could go to a chemist and they will give a suppository which is the same as what A&E use. Fire it up and wait. It will liquify everything and out it will come. Though they will hold it again cos using that way it will be traumatic for them. Ya'd need the Movicol or an alternative then to keep things soft. Keeping it soft is key. They'll still hold but eventually nature will win out. If the kid gets constipated, they'll hold for a few days then those signals will stop and things get more backed up. That was what happened us. The constipation led to A&E to get it out. The horror started after as he was aware of needing to go, and wouldn't. That is a fierce hard time for all concerned.

    An update here. We've been managing the Movicol dosages based on the poo consistency. Some days he was going 4 times a day and we'd cut back the dose. Most days he's one 1 sachet. The last few days that's up to 2 again as he started the "I don't want to do my poo" craic again. Luckily, he eventually lets it out. It's going to be a slow process to build his confidence back up



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