Kilkenny GAA Thread

Topcat32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613069#Comment_123613069

What we have lost for me, rather than fight or grit or whatever is the number of high quality players and level of options coming off the bench, one or two high quality interventions at key moments on Sunday would turn a 2 point loss into a 4 or 5 point win, we just don't have the Eoin Larkins, JJ Delaneys or Noel Hickeys who came alive in those moments like we did 15 years ago. There are a fair few lads on our 26 who wouldn't make the first 30 in the top 7 or 8 counties too. I think its unfair to question their fight, its probably one of the things that is keeping us competitive up to the last few minutes in most big games.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613133#Comment_123613133

I agree, Kilkenny showed good character, but we are just not good enough. No impact off the bench, lack of pace in the forwards, we have to rely on TJ to create goal chances. I watched back the match, Carey did well not to be whipped at half time, Morris gave him a run around in the first half. Watching it back Tipp are not so bad, backs are very good. Kilkenny are at a standard that they perform to a level all the time probably a 7.5, if the top 2/3 teams turn up and match us with desire they usually get over the line as they usually have that bit more pace and quality hurlers.

Topcat32

I strongly suspect that of the the top 4 or 5 teams we are more likely to start players who are not fully fit and also keep them on if they are carrying an injury, Eoin Cody was not fully fit yesterday, was limping in the last 5 minutes, but to be honest can see why they didn't take him off, especially after taking off Adrian Mullen

farmerval

Is the lack of competition in Leinster hurting ye on the big stage? Whatever the standard in Munster, everyday is a dogfight, almost every game carries jeopardy. Leinster doesn't have anywhere near the same level of intensity. Waterford in Waterford are probably a tougher proposition than KK faced in Leinster this year. This is the second year in a row when you couldn't close out a game that was there for the winning.

Oíche Na Gaoithe Móire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613133#Comment_123613133

I think it's definitely true. Also mistakes that Deegan and R. Reid made in the last 5 minutes. Compare with Michael Kavanagh's coolness in beginning the move for Gorta's goal in 2009. And how brilliant all players were.

There is an element of them not being good enough now. Having said that they were some awful basic errors. And lumping high ball with the extra man, hurling IQ. Yet the same team of players were better in 2022. A bit of a confidence problem too.

Sir Chaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613368#Comment_123613368

Of course it hurts us not to have enough competitive games. There's a narrative that Kilkenny have somehow pulled a fast one and have an advantage because they're in Leinster, but in reality we'd give our right arm to be in a championship as competitive as Munster. We're not conditioned to close out fast paced, tight games. We got away with it when we had exceptional hurlers and were pound for pound better than everyone else, but we are not in that space anymore.
As someone said, that's 2 semi finals where we have managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Extremely frustrating for anyone associated with the county.

Box to box

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123612805#Comment_123612805

Do you think pj kenny will be out with the phonebook trying to get tom mullaly,brian dowling,eddie brennan,David herity involved in some capacity with kk underage or senior?Paul murphy,richie power,tommy walsh involved with underage.County board will only select yes men and people who go with the flow so you can rule out nearly all them as managers.ciarian muldowney was involved with development squads and had loads of ideas but he was banging his head off a wall and left. A complete waste of time. Kk county board had plenty of time to get herity when he was with kildare and Dublin camogie. Also lads in cuala spoke really high of him.He really gave lyng lesson.tom mullally is his own man and definitely wouldnt take **** so he woulsnt suit. Eddie is too vocal on twitter he woulsnt suit. It was very obvious tactically tipp got it right but it doesnt take a Einstein to set up against kk. So predictable. Pulling lawlor out of full back and really targeting goals and the 2 corner backs.theres absolutely no doubt scruff isn't half the shot stopper he was but in all fairness ffs michael rice goal keeping coach is not even funny. He never hurled goal in his life . In hindsight starting Murphy and Cody after missing a few months would they have being better with tommy walsh or blanchfield and Stephen donnelly? I know hindsight is a great thing.

The writing was on the wall during the year conceding goals against poor antrim and offaly teams. We spoke here for years about this lad and that lad at 6 but after one bad league match the script is ripped up. It's time to try Mullen or mackeseey at 6 next year. Ivan bolder was already in with the seniors,he also done well on screeney last year. Michael brennan and marty Murphy the best of the 20s. Molloy was excellent year so maybe a few 25-26 year old can be looked at.

3 years into the job. Absolutely no improvement in puckouts and 2 players found in that time. Actually one when u take donnelly out who didnt start. That's not good enough. What style of play has he brought to the table? Zero goal threat yesterday.what movement and space are fowards creating? Giving up puckouts is one thing but when a man up is actually shocking.The job is lyngs if he wants it but I'd say he will go especially if lawlor and Billy Ryan go travelling. Also talks of mikey Carey going travelling.Will tj stay? My God what a player. Everyone around us yesterday could see the ball went wide. There must be 20 lads on the stats team so what the hell are they all looking at. Surely someone should of copped that

Topcat32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613416#Comment_123613416

Well Michael Fennelly is in there and if you think he is a yes man you don't know what you are talking about, he needs some time and he needs the resources to implement what he wants to do but I'd take him over David Herity anytime, Brian Dowling is a real loss though and would be an excellent minor manager and Tom Mullaly should be offered the under 20 job with a remit to improve the last two minor leinster winning teams

Village87

Another note on the match yesterday. Noel McGrath is some presence In the dressing room for this Tipperary team, what an impact player to bring in. The respect he holds is incredible, what a player, what a legend, what a roll model for this young Tipp team. A class act on and off the field.

Topcat32

That I will definitely agree with you on, not to get too deep but he is an inspiration really to all young men who have faced serious health difficulties, such a natural hurler but you can also see that he plays with a decent club football team by how he easily drifts into space to get on loads of ball.

conor05

Noel McGrath & TJ Reid are the greatest I’ve seen in my lifetime for Tipp & KK.

They both always do the right thing with the ball at the right time, it’s like play slows down for them.

Two unbelievable hurlers and gentlemen off the pitch aswel.

Box to box

Now is the time to be going after management's for next year not in 3 months time when everyone is snapped up? Could Brian dowling be lured from kildare to manage the u20 team? Absolutely he could. Richie power or tommy walsh approached about u17? Gortha and mark aylward had the u19 playing a nice brand last year. Has pj rang Tom mullally or is he waiting till someone else takes him? Lyng can't bring this team any further. He's bleed every last drop out of Cody's team. Someone needs to come in and make tough decisions but it needs to happen over the next few weeks not few months

Topcat32

Its interesting on here how the potential managers get the polite approach of having their Christian and surname be mentioned when they are discussed while Derek and Brian get called Lyng and Cody, its the old Johnny Giles maxim of sport being not about what you have done but what have you done for me lately

JJs Left Hand

What exactly have Richie Power and Tommy done to justify being KK U17 manager?

Brian Dowling is clearly a decent manager but considering he's over Kierans who supply the bulk of the U20 team every year he already has a heavy influence on KK underage hurling. I'm also not sure he'd see getting the U20 gig as a progression

neverbet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613416#Comment_123613416

We only see what we want to see and believe what we want to believe. You are throwing out names like confetti.The first 15 mins was the best hurling from a KK team in years. So you would say the talent is there. I saw no great problem with fitness, pace yes , not overall fitness. We lost primarily because of Tipp forwards ability to finish goal chances keeping them in the game ,a few of our more highly rated underperforming and unforced errors when Tipp went down to 14. The Clock issue also cost us dearly . Considering everyone here pre game was happy with the team selected you included ,hindsight is not of any use when the final whistle is blown. The reality is the 18 that represented us on Sunday were our best and the fact they were mostly all there from BRIAN CODY'S era only speaks to the fact that we have been enduring one of our most barren spells at underage in living memory. That is showing signs of changing imo.

Takeyourpoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613673#Comment_123613673

Agreed, I don't understand this talk of luring Brian Dowling from Kildare to manage the u20s. Why would any manager want to go from managing a Liam Mc team to managing an u20 team? I'd say for Dowling it's the senior job or nothing and he'd be right to be thinking that way.

Change needs to happen for all three teams and due process needs to be followed. Over the next few weeks we're going to hear lots of names, good and bad, and we just have to hope the county board does it's due diligence.

conor05

There is not a hope in hell Dowling is going to leave the Kildare hurlers who are now in the Liam McCarthy cup, he will feel he can have a right cut off Wexford, Dublin and Offaly in the Leinster championship in 2026, he gets a nice few pound off Kildare too, Kilkenny would not pay him.

Tom Mullally is the man to go after, a proven winner and gets the absolute maximum out of all the teams he manages but he is his own man and wouldn’t bow down to the Kilkenny county board, that’s where the issues lie.

BENDYBINN

why sack derek lyng? Thought that was the best kk performances in a long long time…

Nedflanders02

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614038#Comment_123614038

I think you're right about money, the CB are definitely not going to pay anyone to do the job. Funnily enough I don't think that would be an issue for Dowling but may rule out a few other candidates. As you say there is no chance of Dowling or Mullaly leaving their current positions to go to the the minors or U20's. At least at senior level we seem to have a few candidates Dowling, Mullaly, Shefflin, Brennan, Hogan or Doherty but is there any standout candidate for the U20 and minor jobs which, with our need for up and coming talent, is nearly a more important position to get right.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613416#Comment_123613416

"Do you think pj kenny will be out with the phonebook trying to get…."

I`m sure you meant chequebook.

JJs Left Hand

Personally I'd be surprised if Lyng stays going. 3 years in the big gig, 2 years at U20 before that I think plus however many years with Cody. That's a fair stint doing his bit for KK hurling. Wish him well whatever he decides. As Jack O Connor said after the Kerry Armagh game: "what have you done..."

Village87

If Ballyhale win the club this year there will be pressure to get Henry in. I am not sure will he do it as the players are not there.

How many of our players would make the Tipp Team ? A quick go at it

Shelly

Doyle

Lawlor

Morgan

O Meara

Maher

Connolly

Kenny

Molloy

Morris

Ormonde

Mossy

Forde

TJ

Mcgrath or Eoin Cody.

Takeyourpoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614195#Comment_123614195

By that combined team you would think we were more than 2 points behind and that we shouldn't have been anywhere near them! Derek Lyng must be doing fairly well to get so much out of the team at the moment 😀

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614263#Comment_123614263

I know i thought we would have more on it myself but i am happy with the backs and midfield. Forwards were a bit harder. TJ and Lawlor are worth 2 players each such is there presence on the Kilkenny team

Our lack of bench really hurt us Sunday compared to Tipp. Billy Ryan and John Donnelly put in massive 55-60 mins of work rate on Sunday, but they must have been gassed out with 10 minutes to go. This is when we need a lift off the bench to replace lads out on their feet. Its a killer for us. Maybe bring in Eoin Cody as stated last week might have been the better option. A few things go against us the last 10 mins in these big matches that are 50/50.

1. The bench is massive, to replace a player not playing well and players out on there feet, we have very little impact off the bench.

2.The crowd, we are always outnumbered, the support and noise for Tipp helped them over the line, it brings momentum in itself.

3.Lack of composure. We lose the run of ourselves, pot shots, mistakes, players not taking responsibility(Mikey Carey perfect example for the goal, he should have had that ball in the hand he had 2 opportunities and he crumbled). Our game plan goes.

Takeyourpoints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614085#Comment_123614085

It's not so much sacking as not renewing. He was given a 3 year term and while there were some decent performances, there also has to be a question of whether he has improved the team or made it worse. The answer, to me, is that the team has stagnated and is getting a bit older with very few younger players coming through. I don't think he's a bad manager but for a manager that got the job due to his performances as an underage manager, he's not overseen the rebuild that was needed post Cody. Combine that with the fact that he is so similar to Cody in his mannerisms, I think we need someone fresh who will really change things.

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614085#Comment_123614085

Not being sacked. His contract is up and someone said earlier that they heard he didnt want to renew it no matter what happened this year.

Sir Chaz

I don't think it's a manager problem. He picked the team most would have picked. The only issue I have is the concession of the puck out against 14, and maybe Cody and/or Mullen could have gone sooner. Bit you'll always have some gripes.

I go back to what I said again, we were good enough to comfortably win that match but we kept shooting ourselves in the foot with unforced errors after unforced errors. The decision making by experienced players (Shane Murphy excused to a degree) was just off the wall bananas.

Tipp were far from error free, and every team makes mistakes, but jaysus when there are so many and when every single one was so avoidable and unnecessary, it's so hard to take. Derek Lyng had the right players out and playing in the right way. They just let him down on the day. Very hard for any manager to legislate for the amount of ridiculous errors we made, particularly at the level we are playing at and when it doesn't come from good play by your opponents.

Nedflanders02

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614292#Comment_123614292

I know what you mean with the bench not having an impact but in fairness for them to have an impact on Sunday it would have necessitated them being brought on, other than Blanch who came on at half time, Donnelly came on in the 66th minute and Doyle in the 70th, that's not enough time to make an impact. When the time came for us to freshen things up and make changes Lyng didn't trust his bench and didn't have enough faith in his panel. We are the only county who do not empty the bench in the big games when needed.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614430#Comment_123614430

In fairness to Doyle he had a decent impact for the few minutes, he won a few possessions. Some players are empty after 60 mins. I spoke last last week about players like Billy Ryan, who does work so hard and how many times are himself and Donnelly helping back in the half back line, these lads have very little to offer after 60 minutes, fresh legs would probably have got us over the line

Nedflanders02

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614450#Comment_123614450

I was surprised they didn't bring in Hogan his pace and directness would have caused Tipp big problems at the end, he's well able to win his own ball too. Even Tommy Walsh would have been an improvement on how we were defending on Sunday. I thought Doyle did well too, when he comes off the bench he seems to make more of an impact than when he starts, there is definitely something in him but he needs loads of games in the league next year to stake his claim.