Kilkenny GAA Thread

Marrooned

Derek never made the hard decisions that had to be made in at least the second year which he should really have been laying out his stall in the first year . As a result trying to cram everything into his last year which doesn’t leave much time for the new lads. Would you not agree with that

Nedflanders02

The most disappointing thing about Sunday was the complete lack of a game plan or a plan for how Tipp would set up. From goalkeeper up we’re found wanting in so many areas. Murphy is a great shot stopper but he was so poor on Sunday, unless you were standing in the full back line you weren’t getting the ball short, at one stage we had 5 players standing inside our 21 looking for a ball and he still went long to where our half forwards were completely out numbered. Tommy Walsh was poor again, I’d have sympathy for him in that he’s only coming back from injury but at this stage Shane Murphy has to be ahead of him in the pecking order, I thought Butler was one of the few to do ok and thought he did well against Cork, not sure where the complaining about him has come from. It’s hard to argue with Blanch and Carey’s red cards, a complete lack of discipline and control. Discipline was s massive problem on Sunday especially, not just needless fouling but failing to track runners, and I don’t think I ever saw som many KK players pointing at other players ti pick up loose players while at the same time not doing a thing themselves! As someone else said, I actually thought Drennan showed well for the ball but his confidence is at rock bottom, which isn’t helped by the amount of criticism and abuse he was getting from Kilkenny “fans” around me. Billy Ryan continues to frustrate, ge does so many good things but his finishing let’s him down. Dunne seems a bit too passive although I do think there is a hurler in him. All in all Sunday was as low a point as we’d have and some serious question marks need to be asked of management and players. There is clearly no game plan, Wall and Doherty have been brought in but have obviously not been given any chance to coach or work on a game plan as we are worse than ever this year. The players also have to have a good look in the mirror too, the effort and fight that should be a given was no where to seen on Sunday. The ill-discipline shown on Sunday I think says a lot too.add here love to complain about Cody but when he was there he set standards and lads were given a choice either meet those standards or not be on the panel, too many lads now in there seem to think they can do what they like and get away with it and lads are definitely not putting in the commitment levels needed, Lyng has been too weak on this and players know they can get away with it as some of them are almost guaranteed a start. When given the job after Cody left I was optimistic that he could get us back to past glories but I think the last bit of faith in him I would have had has disappeared over the last few weeks.

Conversations 3

I agree with above, it seems Lyng hasn't the respect of the players.

There was no fight in them on Sunday, like they were through the motions and didn't really care about the outcome.

I think it goes back to the draw against Carlow, a line should have been drawn there by Lyng.

JJs Left Hand

Why is it obvious that Doherty and Wall have not been given a chance to coach? In the warm up on Sunday I'm fairly sure it was Wall who was the one in control of the starting 15s possession game. Why would he be given that job if he's not also leading the training sessions?

A few people in here posting as if they have front row seats to training which I seriously doubt is the case. This is not to defend the management team as I think we've looked a horrifically coached team for years now. Back to Codys tenure.

Nedflanders02

The reason I questioned the input Wall and Doherty have had is that there has been no improvement in what we’ve seen over the last number of years. Now look maybe we’re on a different training cycle to other teams and come championship it’ll be a different story but I would doubt it. I don’t claim to have any kind of inside information, I only comment on what I see and trust me would love to be talking about positive things and not being negative. One interesting thing I forgot to say earlier was that I see Ray Boyne was with the back room team and in Kilkenny gear at the weekend. He’s had great success in the past with Dublin (footballers) and Tipp so it will be interesting to see if he can bring anything extra to the set up

Box to box

I noticed that alright,Ray boyne has a impressive cv but we can have who ever we want doing performance analysis but if we are driving puckouts over the line or looking for a one two and then driving it down the field to a 2v1 it's a waste of time.Doherty had galway pinging puckouts to his thomastown players so its not like they dont know. I said the players have to take responsibility because at times theres little movement or players aren't showing for it. Peter McDonald was completely lost and its one step foward two steps back for alot of players but the basics of tracking runners wasnt there either so they cant blame lyng for that.I've said here a long time ago and I've being shot down but the video analysis is shocking along with the u12 drills by lyngs right hand man. I also said the county board took a huge shortcut by not getting a more recognised s&c coach in. It was said here a few years ago David herity is a excellent coach and should of being snapped up by kk. The very same as Tom mullally another excellent coach.if its so obvious why hasn't this happened? Is it that these people wouldn't work with the county board?

I'm watching hurling long enough not to be getting carried away in march. Last week a small thing we could of got a draw against cork and against galway should of seen it out but we didn't and we are where we are but this league was for trying a few players not going back for Tommy Walsh and Richie Reid in defence it hasn't worked the last few years it won't work now. I would of ear marked a few players like Jeff neary,eoghan lyng,zac,shine and put them all on individual plans and gave them the league.Are our players on individual plans because shine,dunne and drennan all look the same bulky and slow.id question the s&c here.If he didnt make a clown out of paul cody last year he would of being a option at wing foward but he dropped him and brought him back and dropped him and brought him back again while keeping others on the panel where cody had more to offer imo.Mikey Carey gives us energy at wing back and could get up and down the field. This is a free hit Saturday I'd go with mackessy at 6. We've only bearly got over the 20 points in all our matches while Limerick are getting over 30 so it's easy do the maths. The mood is very low in the county.i hear people saying the beat thing to happen is kk not get out of leinster and a huge clear out and start again because a semi final defeat will cover the cracks. I'm not like that but a huge huge review is years over due. It has to happen because theres people not fit for purpose in their roles.

I'm hopeful that a few weeks training in nowlan Park and working on things will bring lads on. Last wknd was very dissapointing hopefully its the kick in the hole everyone needs. We've learned that we need everyone back for the championship.

neverbet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253425#Comment_123253425

Lyng has tried quite a few of the team that won under 20 in '22 without success. The following two years Kilkenny didn't emerge from Leinster or get to a Leinster final. Yourself and a few like minded weren't slow to lay the blame at the feet of Mark Dowling and his management team. I didn't see the next DJ or TJ ,Tommy or whoever in either of those three years. All very committed ,hard trying players,good but not quite good enough. No Screeney, Dara McCarthy, Adam English,Adam Hogan or Diarmuid Healy type player amongst them either. From 2000 to 2014 we were producing three and four exceptional ones most years. Hasn't been happening for a while but we live in hope. BTW I agree with your team for Saturday.

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123256175#Comment_123256175

Very good post, it really is baffling why he didn’t have those lads on individual s&c programs all winter and give them an extended run in the league. The only way he’s going to know if they’re up to it is to play them.

Tommy Walsh is there for the taking every time he goes out, how long more does he need to realise that?

He went very conservative again in this league and we still ended up with four points so a total waste of time really.

I still expect us to be competitive come the championship but we have so many issues with how we do things.

Takeyourpoints

Agree with most posters here regarding the coaching of the team. Watching the Tipp ball put straight to hand time after time on Sunday while kilkenny couldn't keep puck outs between the lines was demoralising to the crowd.

The big thing I've got an issue with is the S&C. I think we're doing something wrong the whole way up. Billy Ryan is mentioned as the only one with pace, but when he was first on the scene he was even quicker. To me it seems as though lads are being told to build muscle and everything else will fall into place. I remember hearing lads being told they need to put on 2-3 stone of muscle over winter. Now I'm not claiming to be a S&C expert but if I was told to do that you can be sure there's two things that would get worse, I'd lose a yard of pace and I'd lose fitness carrying around that extra weight.

I think emphasis from a young age is being put on the gym and when I look at the new young lads coming in a lot of them have big strong legs, but they're not moving around too quickly, as if they're too heavy. Suddenly that nippy corner forward that you had as a 16 year old is a big strong lad who is standing out at minor but is lacking that movement for senior.

This is probably a hangover from Cody's days when we won all around. Between 2006-2011, no one could match us for size, so we bullied teams. We had pace as well with Eddie Brennan and the likes of Richie Power but it was our size that gave us that edge. Nowadays every team is huge, but the difference I see is that other teams found a balance between pace, size and coaching.

As I said, not an S&C expert, but I just think there's a step missing between the muscle being put on and when they get back training on the pitch. Are we missing a sprint coach, are the young lads being told that they have to be a certain size or they'll never make it? Owen Wall, a late bloomer, someone who hasn't been exposed to this level of gyming for long, could give us something different.

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123256359#Comment_123256359

Spot on re S&C…. I’m worried that they’ve turned Harry Shine into a little block, he used to be quicker over five yards but they’ve taken away his advantages by bulking him up, now he has neither height nor pace. I’m still hopeful that Harry can make it but we’re definitely doing something wrong. The same thing happened with Ger Aylward a couple of years ago, very good underage but they bulked him up and he started wrestling with opponents and looking for a fight all the time.

You don’t see Offaly making that mistake with young Screeney.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123256190#Comment_123256190

Don't talk to me about Mark Dowling, the manager that did not know the rules regarding his u20 players playing senior, he should have been all over that. Kilkenny got overrun by Wexford in the park u20 2 years ago, what does he do ? start a slower half back line against a lively Offaly team the following year. Langton, Hughes and Lyng got cleaned the whole place could see it coming. He has an awful to answer for.

As regards this years Leinster championship, we will comfortably qualify and we will see the likes of Riche Reid etc etc getting themselves back on the team and we will talk of turning a corner on this forum before we eventually get thumped by a Munster team like we have done the last 10 years and the same process starts over again.

Whatever chance we have, we have to win a Leinster to make an All Ireland semi final and hope we catch a Munster team off guard then anything can happen in an AI final. If we don't win Leinster we have absolutely no chance of beating 3 Munster teams in the All Ireland series. Again ill say it, we are blessed to not meet any Munster teams early on, Waterford and Kilkenny would be a 50/50 match and they are the 5th ranked team in Munster

Senditinlow

I wouldn't bank on comfortably qualifying out of Leinster. We're lucky we've Galway and Offaly at home, wouldn't fancy playing either of those away. But what I've seen so far in Nowlan Park this year them matches are far from banker's. We're fine with our first 16/17 players buts it's the next 5/6 we're really struggling with. Gonna need Mullen and Cody to really step up this year or ŵe could get caught in Leinster

neverbet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123256555#Comment_123256555

Your idea of thumped and mine are poles apart. '22 All Ireland lost to the Great Limerick team by 2, led the same team by 5 in the second half of '23 final and overwhelmed by them in the last 20 mins in one of the greatest displays of hurling you could witness. Lost semi final by 2 pts to AI champions Clare last year . Fact! Fact!Fact!

My idea of thumped would be the beatings handed out by the same Limerick team to Cork and Waterford in the preceding two years.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123257360#Comment_123257360

There was some pretty bad results in there over the last 9 years to Munster teams. A few hammerings by Tipp and one by Limerick, couple of bad beatings by Waterford, Cork bet us by 7/8 after ET one year after leaving us back in it after normal. We have struggled against Munster teams the last decade.

KK36

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123256555#Comment_123256555

In fairness to Mark it came out after that he did know the rules. It was our brilliant county board officials who didn't. Mark prevented them from bringing on Gearoid Dunne who was ready to enter the field.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123257421#Comment_123257421

If he knew the rules then why was Killian Doyle allowed play against Carlow knowing he would miss the Offaly match ?

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123258064#Comment_123258064

To be fair it wasn’t Dowling’s decision to play Killian Doyle against Carlow either.

neverbet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123257419#Comment_123257419

Disappointing defeats yes , but all except the 2019 final v Tipp were in the melting pot well into the 2nd half and in that one Richie Hogan was red carded in the 1st half. You forget over the same period we had championship wins over Waterford , Cork, Limerick and Clare twice, so maybe all hasn't been as black as you suggest.

Village87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123259002#Comment_123259002

Yes I agree but I do believe we were stronger back then with a younger TJ, Padraig Walsh and many more. We have got weaker and Munster teams stronger imo, unless we win a Leinster we will not beat 3 Munster teams to win an All Ireland

forchange

far from bitter James fact is I have commented when we win but unfortunately we only win the minor games we down with the Carlow now

This year we have beaten the Clare B team and the worst Wexford team in history and if you think I M going to praise the heap off **** we have to watch

This is senior hurling and kilkenny going backwards

As for mossy for five years now he is doing it in the league come championship he to slow no skill can’t pass the ball 4 all Ireland semie finals taking off and all Ireland final taking off

Billy Ryan is a poor a hurler that has ever played for kilkenny to say he played well against cork he never even hit the ball in the second half but managed to give away 3 frees and also played all Ireland without getting a puck off the ball

Yes I also said the great Brian Cody last years as manager were. Joke when fogarty left kilkenny we went down hill fact Cody coup not coach hit the ball up the field look where he left the village

The beatings we got in his last few years were horrific

As for lyng I guarantee Paul Cody would be playing the chap from O’Loughlin’s that walked away would be playing he should have being brought in in last year semie finals instead we bring in fogarty and wally what a joke

I hear lads talking about Richie Reid he is not even a good club hurler runs around picking up loose ball that’s ok against weaker teams not worth a **** against top teams so you can keep criticising but unfortunately whetted you like it or not everything I have said is fact

forchange

by the way James Bond

I guarantee I have be

Img at more kilkenny matches thaN you will ever be at its 40 years I have never missed a minor junior intermediate or senior match if the team are ****. There **** if things keep going Carlow will probably beat this year as it now looks mullin and tj in doubt

jamesbond2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123259612#Comment_123259612

Martin fogarty did a great job with Kilkenny and so many of the great players referenced the key role he played at the time but he’s gone 12 years now and hasn’t been involved with any club or bar his own and had any type of success after leaving Kilkenny and time I’ve heard him speak he’s come across as someone who hasn’t moved with the times hurling wise

Yes Brian Cody’s last few years weren’t the best but it balanced out over 20 years we got hammerings when we had great teams vs Galway in the 2012 there was a few league games vs Clare I can remember around 2013/14

We were chasing 5 in a row with a great panel and tipp hammered us it didn’t mean the 6 all Irelands before then were disregarded

Teams can’t go out and win everyday a few beatings over a 20 year career as manager and a club getting relegated under his management doesn’t erase all the good Brian did for kk hurling and great days he gave us

You’ve referenced o Walsh a lot im sure his kk team took a few hammerings

Kilkenny aren’t where they were but that will all come back around every team over the last 25 plus years have been in Kilkenny’s position Limerick and Cork wit there’s strikes and getting hammerings in Munster Clare have had a lot of bad days tipp haven’t exactly been flying the last 6 years Waterford Offaly Wexford what have Dublin done since daly left

Cork Clare and Limerick have only really really got there act together the last 10ish years

How many years have cork gone without an all Ireland and Limerick before 2018

If your watching the game 40 years surely you have seen kk struggle in the past and this is a down period that every county goes through

I can’t fathom why you keep cutting the back of the same players over and over I don’t know especially lads that have given us great service and have retired you made your point about them get over it

So an unamed olg gaels player maybe d fogarty or Owen wall who is still on the panel and was running around warming up Sunday were the answer last year wall yes he would have made a difference I agree there

Paul Cody should be on the panel but he’s not some messiah to lead us back to the promised land

Coming on here bashing the same players over and over and the manner you speak about them is still scandalous in my opinion your negativity knows no bounds

As I said before it’s not a competition on here whether you ve been to 40 games or 400 that’s irrelevant

Hard for Carlow to beat us this year and there not even in Leinster in 2025 Offaly are

Opinions are like **se holes everyone’s got one and your one massive **se hole I won’t “change” my mind on that

KK36

We'll be better come championship. It's quite obvious that Tipp have way more hurling done in their training than us. They were much sharper. They also had their championship team on the field last Sunday and I feel that Cahill is going all out for the league as it's a chance to win a trophy and he knows full well they won't win Munster of the All Ireland. We were short Lawler, Mullen, Phelan, S Donnelly and Cody, who could all start plus J Donnelly and Riche Reid at the start and it was TJ's first match.. management might also have to make a really big call and go with Tallis in goal. I would have no fear of meeting them in the championship.

We have 4 weeks now to sharpen up for the Galway game. If we win that first match of the Leinster league the winter league will be forgotten. I heard on Kilkenny Radio on Monday that we should stop running the ball out from the backs and use 30/40 yard hurl passes instead. I'd agree with this because all we do is run into trouble. We need criss cross running in the forwards to create space. Play the ball into that space so a lad can run onto it instead of ballooning it down on top of him. Why can't we never seem to leave acres of space in front of the full forward line like what Cork and Limerick were doing last weekend.

I'd still be hopeful enough of a good year. It's only a few months ago we hurled the ears off Clare in the first half. All is not lost.

The_Tank

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123256777#Comment_123256777

It's entirely feasible in my book that we lose at home to Galway, underestimate and get caught by a smarter Offaly (think back on their history of breakthroughs against us) and are left facing Wexford park with everything on the line.

I think the stronger league format is just shining a light on our lack of panel quality. Last year we had a few 'gimmes' whereas in the current division you get nothing for free and quite a few teams are also clearly stacked.

The Flying Donkey

From what I understand, Noel Doherty hasn’t been involved with the setup so far given the trials and tribulations of last year’s suspension. County board haven’t covered themselves in glory over the whole fiasco

droppingball

Thought he would have been involved in the background but believe he is hasn't started yet and may not be involved at all. Wouldn't blame him if he told them he wasn't interested after everything.

KK36

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123258064#Comment_123258064

I don't think he was listed to play and was a late change just before throw in. mark probably didn't even know he was due to play. I know he was horsing over it and couldn't believe when he saw they were getting Dunne ready to go on

Nickindublin

Big Year for KK hurling. For Lyng its do or die. He will need to be brave IMO but I have not seen that in his first 2 seasons. He will need to get a full 70mins plus out of the team and will need to find a bench that can come on and change the dynamics of a game. Its a 20 man team now as the pace of championship hurling now means you need that bench. His in game management will need to be spot on if KK are to be successful.

I want to see a team that knows what it is doing in the championship. Know how they are to play. What i have seen is a team that tries to play a short passing game but they dont know how to. I dont think its in the KK DNA ATM. So in the end they go back to tradition and drive it long and hope for the best when the pressure comes on. Derek needs to develop a style of play that can get the best out of this group of players. I dont think he is upto it unfortunately. I hope to be proven wrong.

WibblyWobblyWonderman

Junior League Championship draw last night, 1st round fixtures:

Group A

Windgap v Cloneen

Slieverue v Emeralds

Conahy Shamrocks v Piltown

Group B

St. Patrick’s v John Lockes

Graiguenamanagh v Galmoy

Barrow Rangers v Kilmacow

Section B fixtures

Dicksboro v Rower Inistoige

James Stephens v Mooncoin

Erin’s Own v Lisdowney

Thomastown v Young Irelands

O’ Loughlin Gaels v Clara

WibblyWobblyWonderman

Group A looks to be the stronger group, with Windgap and Conahy likely to be the pre-season favourites for the championship. Emeralds will be looking to drive on from making the semis last year. Piltown and Slieverue are always dangerous and can beat anybody on their day. Cloneen have struggled for a long time in Junior, but showed shoots of improvement last year.

Group B is impossible to call. All teams capable of beating each other. St. Patrick’s have underperformed the last couple of years and can be hot and cold. But they have the players to take down any team. John Lockes the same. Graiguenamanagh have some excellent young hurlers coming through and gave Windgap a game in the championship for the 1st half last year. They’ll want to continue to improve. Galmoy were on fire during the league-championship stage at times last year, but faltered come championship. Billy Drennan will be huge for them this year again and I think their season hinges on how much they can get out of him. Barrow Rangers have some excellent players but probably lack depth to compete at the business end of the season. Kilmacow have struggled at times the last couple of years but have the quality to catch teams if they don’t perform to their abilities.

Predictions

Winner: Windgap

Surprise package: Galmoy as an outside contender but I guess they’re not really a surprise. Graiguenamanagh could cause trouble for any team, so I’d go with them otherwise