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Oh no the Farm levy again

  • 25-06-2021 2:01pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ epfff


    I sold some stock last week. I had previous dealings with this plant over the years including this year and had them instructed not to deduct the farm levy but they made the deduction.

    Not the end of the world or anything like that but I was minding the kids when cheque arrived and decided to contact my local ifa office to see the procedure for claiming back and prevent it from happening again instead of me having to specify/check with processor/mart each time I sold stock.

    To my astonishment he advised me to deal with abp going forward if I wanted to be sure of avoiding farm levy. This response sorta got my back up and I perceived it that effectively farm organisations are putting a 0.15% tax on farmers that wish to deal with abp's opposition.

    Next I enquired about claiming back to which they wanted the full remittance including tag numbers prices totals etc. Am I wrong in thinking it wrong that I should have to share what is commercially sensitive private information with a third party to rectify them putting there hand in my pocket without permission and not be compensated for my administration costs?

    I have since discovered they have no records of who pays levy and processors/marts have no transparency on how much they collect before keeping a undisclosed share for administration costs.

    Am I only one thinking that Mr Goodman may actually be right and on the side of good by not collecting this untraceable money without permission for farmers.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭ tanko


    Ring the factory, they should send a cheque out straight away.

    The IFA parasites won’t give it back anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ Sacrolyte


    If you want the levy removed from your milk cheque must you contact Ifa or processor?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ epfff


    Sacrolyte wrote: »
    If you want the levy removed from your milk cheque must you contact Ifa or processor?

    Processor i believe


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Just ring the factory and ask them to send on a balancing cheque next working day .No big deal and no point in ringing IFA as they are but one of 3 organisations getting some of this.
    Had this issue couple of years ago .One factory where I go decided for some unknown reason to stop the IFA levy after not doing it for years .Rang as soon as I seen it on the sheet and had cheque in two days .
    It wasn't the amount but rather the principle .
    If people want to fund IFA ,ICMSA and Macra then no bother but it should be a simple opt-in levy with no fudging of who its for or what it is .
    EIF levy always looks semi official whereas IFA/ICMSA/Macra levy would be clearer .


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,826 ✭✭✭✭ whelan2


    What does EIF stand for?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    whelan2 wrote: »
    What does EIF stand for?

    European Involvement Fund I think .Something to do with funding lobbying in Europe which began in the 1970's .
    Thats my understanding of it anyways .
    Think it all goes into a pot and the 3 mentioned (IFA, ICMSA and Macra) get proportional shares of it .
    Its a good thing if people want to support any or all but my peeve with it that its a stealth levy ie unless you opt out its taken .Even at that some have to be told a few times to stop it. They are on shaky enough ground so there should be no bother getting it back although an odd factory employee will try and convince you its not optional .
    All that said think Boormalt suppliers have/had the levy as compulsary for some reason .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Just ring the factory and ask them to send on a balancing cheque next working day .No big deal and no point in ringing IFA as they are but one of 3 organisations getting some of this.
    Had this issue couple of years ago .One factory where I go decided for some unknown reason to stop the IFA levy after not doing it for years .Rang as soon as I seen it on the sheet and had cheque in two days .
    It wasn't the amount but rather the principle .
    If people want to fund IFA ,ICMSA and Macra then no bother but it should be a simple opt-in levy with no fudging of who its for or what it is .
    EIF levy always looks semi official whereas IFA/ICMSA/Macra levy would be clearer .
    EIF levy - didn't know that.
    Had a look at the most recent Mart docs. One has Hospice, icmsa,IFA,EU fund. All are 0 except EU fund, which I presume is fixed. The second mart has EU fund only


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    EIF levy - didn't know that.
    Had a look at the most recent Mart docs. One has Hospice, icmsa,IFA,EU fund. All are 0 except EU fund, which I presume is fixed. The second mart has EU fund only

    Think EU fund is another name for it .Same sh*t ,different name .
    There is definitely no statutory levy of that name as far as I know .
    Is it 0.15% of your gross sale figure ?

    Think you have it in a nutshell;
    "EU Fund ,which I think is fixed "


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Think EU fund is another name for it .Same sh*t ,different name .
    There is definitely no statutory levy of that name as far as I know .
    Is it 0.15% of your gross sale figure ?

    Yes it is. O.15
    But why have they then listed the IFA and icmsa section as 0 - must admit I took all these deductions for granted.

    Googled, you are correct, Irish independent article on it back in 2015 - unbelievable con


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Yes it is. O.15
    But why have they then listed the IFA and icmsa section as 0 - must admit I took all these deductions for granted.

    Answered above .
    Most take it for granted and never question it .Ring the mart(s) in question.
    Depending on who you get on the phone it will be either a case of here's your money or some spoof story about it being mandatory .
    If you don't wish to pay it (and like I said its minuscule but that's not the point ) you are entitled to it back and tell them not to deduct it any more .

    If you feel that its a good investment no bother .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Yes it is. O.15
    But why have they then listed the IFA and icmsa section as 0 - must admit I took all these deductions for granted.

    Googled, you are correct, Irish independent article on it back in 2015 - unbelievable con

    Not hitting at you but the amount of people who never question stuff amazes me.

    Before anyone accuses me of IFA bashing I have no problem with the levy /what its for etc etc.Rather the slightly "unorthodox" way its named and deducted .
    If Irish farmers wish to fund whomever then good luck to them ,just be clear about what it is and who its for and that its optional .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Much the same thing happening with tags, portion of price for icbf


  • Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭ leoch


    How far back can u claim or look for ur eif...ifa ...money back from Mart's or factoris


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    leoch wrote: »
    How far back can u claim or look for ur eif...ifa ...money back from Mart's or factoris

    No idea as it only happened to me once and I rang about it as soon as I read the kill sheet and returns .

    Would it amount to a whole lot in most cases ?
    Probably get the auld spiel of "our records only go back x far " although would imagine any mart would be obliged to keep records for tax purposes for a few (8?) years minimum .
    Worth a try perhaps .Think there was a bit about all this a few years ago when IFA and Larry fell out over ,I think, the purchase of Slaney Meats .Not too sure how far back people got refunded at the time though .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ epfff


    No idea as it only happened to me once and I rang about it as soon as I read the kill sheet and returns .

    Would it amount to a whole lot in most cases ?
    Probably get the auld spiel of "our records only go back x far " although would imagine any mart would be obliged to keep records for tax purposes for a few (8?) years minimum .
    Worth a try perhaps .Think there was a bit about all this a few years ago when IFA and Larry fell out over ,I think, the purchase of Slaney Meats .Not too sure how far back people got refunded at the time though .


    Could that fall out have actually been about the percentage he got to keep for administration fees?
    If the IFA wanted to cut his administration charge and number of farmers paying it reduced would it be profitable/worth while for him to collect?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm




  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭ JohnChadwick


    Can you claim this fee back off the mart for past payments?

    Was just looking at old dockets and realised there's a 'farm organisation fee' which totals nearly 50 euro (half a tank of diesel in the jeep) for last 2 years.

    Rang mart and said you need to fill in a form to get out of it for future payments. Not sure about claiming back retrospective levies yet tho, I didn't ask that on the call.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ epfff


    Quickest way to get mart to stop taking it from your cheque is to inform them you are going else where because they don't stop making deduction.

    After dawn deducted from me last year i was informed by local ifa office that it wasn't there problem my contract was with the processor if I didn't want to pay it I could deal with abp.

    I believe there is no record of how much any organisation collects for the fund or keeps for administration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭ JohnChadwick


    Yea the whole thing is fairly shady.

    Surprised to see this 'opt out' style levy is still a thing.

    I thought the IFA got a kick up the hole around 2015 on this, the European Involvement Fund it was know then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    Blue in the face saying it, change the deckchairs/talking heads around in IFA all they like, it's the culture that stinks. That's why the opt out BS is still there.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭ JohnChadwick


    On the opt out form (in fairly faded writing), a copy of this will be provided to the IFA to tailor their services.

    Smells a bit like the priests years ago and their mass collections to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭ paddysdream


    Cannot see the need for an opt out form .Just tell them to stop taking the money from your cheque .

    No need to be filing out forms or anything.

    Maybe to get them thinking ask where this stands re Gdpr .



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    Can you not just tell the factory stop taking the money and not be making such bloody compliment out of it, such bloody childishness.

    Members of IFA are either happy with the system or too lazy to go to meetings if they're not.

    I have zero sympathy now with the way Irish farming is going now as I'm finished.

    The delivery of IFA lobbying has paid me well, (and still is paying me well) and thousands of real farmers similar to me



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    I'm telling posters on here to tell the factory agent not to take the levy since well before 2015, yet this complaining persists.

    authors of their own demise

    Just on that,a post on twitter said lately '' teh most profitable friesian bull calf now is a stillborn''....... makes you think !!!!!!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ epfff


    I find your last statement difficult to understand. I was of the opinion you had retired.

    I do not know if I am a farmer, real farmer or waster. I do not have a large bfp, sucklers or a Vodafone mobile so the ifa have not spoke for me for the last 20 years so why should they be allowed to dip into pay without transparency or permission?

    Can I take some of your rental income/bfp and keep doing it until you to request me stop?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ epfff





  • Registered Users Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    90% retired, tax free leases was lobbied for by IFA and the contributory pension, even for my OH, so our lobbying is still paying off for me



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    It would've been a democratic decision when the levy was decided, there's meetings once a month in every county so unless you want to be spoon fed information it's out there for you. Levy is a fairer system for membership as there's such a difference in profit per acre for the different enterprise. It's like the GAA or any club there's plenty happy to leave a few to do the work...... and pay for the organisation.

    Plenty prepared to ride on the coat tails of whichever organisation is doing the work for them



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    Love the new slogan "Levies for all, democracy for some!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    Majority of farmers would've been members of IFA when it was decided. We had some factory agents local that told farmers to stop the levy on all cattle they sent in so people round here can't claim ignorance

    Laziness and leaving it to others would be a big part of the problem, either be a member and keep up or don't be a member, alot of the whingeing comes from non members. I never differentiated...... until now. If a farmer had a problem I'd never ask, but I would ask now if I was still there.

    Members should get involved, non members get outa the way. They can't have resources now to help farmers that aren't paying so why should they As an ordinary member myself now I say it's a disservice to members that are paying



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