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Back to the 70s/80s

  • 19-06-2021 2:42pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 27,189 ✭✭✭✭ _Kaiser_


    Now, I'm all for and indeed miss some of the 70s/80s... the music, the movies, the generally more copped on attitude of people, and the lack of tolerance for every nonsense idea that appeared on TV, etc...

    But if the Green types have their way, we'll be back to the days of things like hand me down clothing:
    “Our relationships with products and services will be unrecognisable in 10 years,” according to Dr Sarah Miller, chief executive of the Rediscovery Centre in Ballymun, Dublin. “The very definition of ‘consumer’ will be a thing of the past.

    “From product owner, we will become ‘product custodians’ as leasing, sharing and rental models go mainstream,” she says, predicting that an explosion will take place in the resale of products. Second-hand will become normal.

    Second-hand clothing will replace fast fashion – not just on the high street, but online too, she forecasts: “Stores will be used for resale, repair, rental, refill and material recovery for products, food and technology.”

    Of course the notion of reusable, longer-lasting products is a nice idea in theory but as usual it's a pipe dream. Things like:
    The takeaway delivered to the home will come in reusable containers and be collected by the food outlet.


    Every supermarket will stop selling products in plastic wrapping. Customers will bring reusable containers for fruit and vegetables, even cleaning agents, just as we now have become used to bringing reusable shopping bags.


    Companies fitting out offices in second-hand furniture will become commonplace.


    Stiff levies will deter sending rubbish for incineration, while companies that make such things as mattresses, paints or textiles will become responsible for them when such products reach the end of their useful lives.


    Companies will quickly learn that green means brass, says reuse specialist Dr Miller, who says that washing machine manufacturers will charge by wash – maintaining ownership of the product, but also responsibility for its reuse.

    This will save the customer money, since maintenance, repair and replacement will be the manufacturer’s responsibility, thus encouraging them to build products that last. Built-in obsolescence will itself become obsolete.

    “These models will create additional jobs locally in electronic repair and maintenance,” says Miller, “Rather than only visiting stores to shop, people will visit the high street to rent, repair and reuse.

    .. are just not going to happen in the Real World, and if they somehow do force it, you can be sure the peasant at the end of the chain will bear the cost as it's passed on. We'll be paying premium prices for not only used goods, but repairs on them too.

    Plus how to they propose to enforce this on companies/products made outside of the jurisdiction. Maybe just price them out/ban them entirely? I suppose our already more expensive and less-choice retail sectors will love that anyway.

    More fantasy nonsense that seems more aimed at virtue-signalling for the audience but if it ever actually happened (bearing in mind the target date is 2030 - less than 9 years away) would make this country completely disconnected from the rest of the global economy.


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    Supermarkets are already pushing no plastic on good and I don't see a problem with fruits etc. Why you have lets say free carrots and beside them more carrots in plastic bags. What's the need for that? plus it increases wastage.

    Go to the likes of Berlin and the city is covered with second hand shop, clothes and all sorts can be picked up. It's just part of the culture. The amount of clothes donated in Ireland and end up with dodgy companies selling to other cities, we should have a proper renewal system in place. I myself have donated clothes which still have tags on them.

    higher quality good should be available. You buy a LG TV and it lasts a long time in a majority. Buy a Walker TV and 24 months later its on the scrap heap. Its not more LG type companies that are appearing it is the sh*t brand. What people don't realise is the s**t brand cost you more in the long run than the more expensive.

    Washing machines/cooker etc, the better brands already have a repair service around Dublin, that's because of the up front cost and again it costs less over the term, 80 quid for a repair v 300 for a replacement washing machine makes sense.

    Packing on fast food is over the top and should be reduced. If a pizza arrives at your door why not transfer to a plate?

    Nothign I see in the above is scary or difficult to introduce


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,442 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    So you're saying continue mining and exploiting and destroying everything on the earth until we have no resources left, because doing anything different to this self-destructive way that can only lead to war and famine is "green types" nonsense?
    We 100% should be handing down clothing. The clothing industry is a massive polluter, I think in the top 5 in the world. Fast fashion has a lot to answer for.
    This is why the planet is f*cked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 705 Granadino


    I don't see how the 1970s were better in any way apart from the fact that there were less people on the planet possibly and way less cars on the roads. We absolutely should be looking to get rid of or cut down on plastic useage, and what is wrong with hand me down clothes. Stamp out fast fashion as well.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,389 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Manach


    While historically there was more emphasis on the repair and restoration of goods that could be passed down from generation to generation - as opposed to the hyperconsumerised society that purchases distance Chinese goods of dubious ethical origin. So the idea of a more custodial attitude to items is a positive.

    However, on the other hand there is a trend encouraged both by Big Tech and now by the Greens that ownership is somehow bad and a move to licencing is to them better. For context, in the book "Copyright Wars" it was shown that weening people from the concept of owning digital items instead of physical objects has been an objective of Intellect Property right posessors. Hence, a future where say physical books are deemed un-ecological and one is only permitted approved and limited use digital books (eg Amazon now effectively books deemed problematic) cannot be ruled out in a world with which the ideas of Green politics and Big Tech merge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭ xieann


    OP is acolyte of John Deere Tractors and Apple computers doctrine:

    Deny Right to Repair in so far as you can by all means possible so consumers will have to buy new products more often.

    Good for you OP.

    For the rest of us, I like to use my soldering iron once in a while.

    I use a completely worn out lawn mower too. I cannot afford a replacement just now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭ Normal One


    I never understand the popularity of that particular cheap clothing retailer that many people were going bat**** crazy about the reopening of. The quality is terrible, they are literally wear once and dispose clothing.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why or how could we possibly be paying more for second hand clothes or non packaged goods?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,259 ✭✭✭✭ briany


    So you're saying continue mining and exploiting and destroying everything on the earth until we have no resources left, because doing anything different to this self-destructive way that can only lead to war and famine is "green types" nonsense?
    We 100% should be handing down clothing. The clothing industry is a massive polluter, I think in the top 5 in the world. Fast fashion has a lot to answer for.
    This is why the planet is f*cked.


    It's not really surprising. We evolved in relatively tough conditions, and taking the bit of instant gratification where we could get it was generally a good thing, i.e. eating the sweet food or having sex (easily digested food/procreation). That was our reward system working for our biological benefit. Now we've created a situation where we can have lots of instant gratification and so it's not really a surprise we've gone mad with it. Unfortunately, it'll probably take much longer than would be necessary for our dopamine receptors to evolve such that we can be more sensible, which is why we have to be dictated to by a minority, creating much resentment among the rest who just want their pleasure, comfort and convenience and sod tomorrow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭ joseywhales


    I'm have some conservative leanings but when it comes to the environment I think we are joke. We know our way of life currently is unsustainable , a lot of the low hanging fruit like reducing waste and intensive agriculture on poor quality land, fossil fuel based power production, over fishing and industrial waste still remain. Whenever any attempt is made to build momentum we get excuses like "well doesn't make a difference if china and India won't clean up their act" , it does make a difference because where the west leads others will eventually follow. That's what being a leader is, doing the dirty work, making the most sacrifices. It is a true shame that even now our children live in a world where nature has been so thinned out. They are lucky to see a bumble bee these days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,488 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    The current takeaway coffee "culture" is some joke.

    I've lost count of the numbers of cups fcuked out of car windows and discarded at scenic areas. There should be a charge of at least 50c on disposable cups.

    I was shocked at the amount of plastic wrapping and containers on a fish and chips meal lately.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭ crooked cockney villain


    Normal One wrote: »
    I never understand the popularity of that particular cheap clothing retailer that many people were going bat**** crazy about the reopening of. The quality is terrible, they are literally wear once and dispose clothing.

    I only buy my underpants, socks and shorts there.

    Coats, tops, t shirts, trackies etc yil buy Nike, Adidas etc for a tenner more an will last you 6 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,281 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    So you're saying continue mining and exploiting and destroying everything on the earth until we have no resources left, because doing anything different to this self-destructive way that can only lead to war and famine is "green types" nonsense?
    We 100% should be handing down clothing. The clothing industry is a massive polluter, I think in the top 5 in the world. Fast fashion has a lot to answer for.
    This is why the planet is f*cked.

    that and Jazz music, especially elevator Jazz music- just think of the amount of extra clothes people buy because they hear Jazz music in shops. The Catholic Church in Ireland back in the 1930's, nearly 100 years ago predicted all of this

    https://www.theirishstory.com/2011/07/01/the-anti-jazz-campaign/#.YM6Egy0ZM1I


    Leitrim was to become the centre of the Anti – Jazz campaign and its leader was the parish priest of Cloone, Fr. Peter Conefrey. Conefrey was an ardent cultural nationalist and was heavily involved in the promotion of Irish music and dancing and the Irish language. He devoted his life to making parishioners wear home – spun clothes and become self – sufficient in food.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,626 ✭✭✭✭ Leg End Reject


    Clothes will need to be made from natural fabrics by proper seamstresses to last. Materials need to be cut correctly too which leads to some waste. New clothes would also cost a lot more than most people are willing to pay.

    I watched a programme where small retailers in the UK were pushing for less waste - dry goods, cleaning products and toiletries were dispensed into reusable containers. I'd imagine manufacturers will have to be financially incentivised to pursue that.

    If you bought a washing machine, tumble dryer, cooker etc in the 70s or 80s you could expect it to last 15+ years with maybe the odd repair. You'd be lucky to get 5-10 with a lot of what's sold now.

    The only thing I can think of that lasts longer is cars, but you're screwed with tax and insurance on older cars so many change them before they should. The push for electric cars will likely make it too expensive to keep existing petrol and diesel models.

    Hardest thing to change will be mindsets - new is better when keeping up with the Jones'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    xieann wrote: »
    OP is acolyte of John Deere Tractors and Apple computers doctrine:

    Deny Right to Repair in so far as you can by all means possible so consumers will have to buy new products more often.

    Good for you OP.

    For the rest of us, I like to use my soldering iron once in a while.

    I use a completely worn out lawn mower too. I cannot afford a replacement just now.

    I’ve got my MacBook repaired for free. That said those devices rarely need it.

    Your soldering iron isn’t going to fix a laptop screen.

    And in fact it’s high quality goods that last that are good carbon citizens. Also iPhones are in fact handed down already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭ fvp4


    So you're saying continue mining and exploiting and destroying everything on the earth until we have no resources left, because doing anything different to this self-destructive way that can only lead to war and famine is "green types" nonsense?
    We 100% should be handing down clothing. The clothing industry is a massive polluter, I think in the top 5 in the world. Fast fashion has a lot to answer for.
    This is why the planet is f*cked.

    Not sure as usual if you mean everybody should be handing down clothing or just the poor and middle income.

    Ireland does need to change but as with flying it isn’t as simple as adding a carbon tax or tax on fast fashion. If we’re going to stop people stop shopping so much in Penney’s then we need to stop people spending so much in Brown Thomas. In fact start here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭ crooked cockney villain


    ineedeuro wrote: »

    Go to the likes of Berlin and the city is covered with second hand shop, clothes and all sorts can be picked up. It's just part of the culture.

    That's because so many Germans are miserable bastards who wouldn't give you the steam off their piss. I've never encountered a more miserable with money bunch of people when it comes to spending, they make Cavan men look like Floyd Mayweather. I seriously struggle to understand how the economy of Germany functions when so many of their people are just obsessed with not spending a cent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,488 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    That's because so many Germans are miserable bastards who wouldn't give you the steam off their piss. I've never encountered a more miserable with money bunch of people when it comes to spending, they make Cavan men look like Floyd Mayweather. I seriously struggle to understand how the economy of Germany functions when so many of their people are just obsessed with not spending a cent.

    Which, of course, is better than spending heaps of money on disposable shyte you dont really need in your life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,927 ✭✭✭✭ osarusan


    Just an example from Japan - you can order takeaway food which will be delivered on real plates/dishes/bowls, just like in a restaurant...and then the next morning those items will be stacked, neatly and cleaned, outside the door of the home for collection by the food/delivery company.

    Second-hand shops are a big thing there too. Furniture, clothes, appliances...all cheap and in good condition, even with warranties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭ crooked cockney villain


    Which, of course, is better than spending heaps of money on disposable shyte you dont really need in your life.

    I worked in a call centre briefly some years ago and witnessed zee Germans doing a U turn and running for another entrance at Christmas when they saw a girl at the entrance holding a children's toy collection bucket :pac::pac: Actually did a legger rather than throw a euro into the drum.

    I was in Australia for 18 months and stayed in hostels during most of it. We used to be given a free drink token on entry to the backpacker nightclubs, the Germans would sit there nursing the free beer for a good 3 hours then head home having not spent a penny.

    Eating out was the McDonakd's Eurosaver (or dollar saver over there). You would never see a German eat anything bigger than a cheeseburger and small fries. An oul Big Mac meal or Quarter Pounder meal was too much money to be spending. They would walk 90 minutes in the blistering heat to avoid paying 2 quid on a bus or train. I doubt any of them ever seen the inside of a taxi.

    A more miserable bunch of bastards you will never meet. I seriously struggle to work out how their economy functions with so many people who refuse to buy anything more than the basic requirements to survive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,442 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    fvp4 wrote: »
    Not sure as usual if you mean everybody should be handing down clothing or just the poor and middle income.

    Ireland does need to change but as with flying it isn’t as simple as adding a carbon tax or tax on fast fashion. If we’re going to stop people stop shopping so much in Penney’s then we need to stop people spending so much in Brown Thomas. In fact start here.

    Yes everyone should have the same amount of expendable income and access to resources regardless of who they are or what they do, I also want this communist state you are always pushing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭ xieann


    fvp4 wrote: »
    If we’re going to stop people stop shopping so much in Penney’s then we need to stop people spending so much in Brown Thomas.
    Why not close both chains down and send the both clientele to TK Maxx.


  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭ crooked cockney villain


    xieann wrote: »
    Why not close both chains down and send the both clientele to TK Maxx.

    I struggle to see how that place turns a profit. Chaotic shelves, 200 euro for the type of stuff so unfashionable you'd wear it to a fancy dress.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,488 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    I worked in a call centre briefly some years ago and witnessed zee Germans doing a U turn and running for another entrance at Christmas when they saw a girl at the entrance holding a children's toy collection bucket :pac::pac: Actually did a legger rather than throw a euro into the drum.

    I was in Australia for 18 months and stayed in hostels during most of it. We used to be given a free drink token on entry to the backpacker nightclubs, the Germans would sit there nursing the free beer for a good 3 hours then head home having not spent a penny.

    Eating out was the McDonakd's Eurosaver (or dollar saver over there). You would never see a German eat anything bigger than a cheeseburger and small fries. An oul Big Mac meal or Quarter Pounder meal was too much money to be spending. They would walk 90 minutes in the blistering heat to avoid paying 2 quid on a bus or train. I doubt any of them ever seen the inside of a taxi.

    A more miserable bunch of bastards you will never meet. I seriously struggle to work out how their economy functions with so many people who refuse to buy anything more than the basic requirements to survive.

    Strange how some of the oh so generous Irish use public bins for domestic waste because they're too fcukin tight to pay for a collection.

    Irish splash cash to feather their own nests and impress others.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    I worked in a call centre briefly some years ago and witnessed zee Germans doing a U turn and running for another entrance at Christmas when they saw a girl at the entrance holding a children's toy collection bucket :pac::pac: Actually did a legger rather than throw a euro into the drum.

    I was in Australia for 18 months and stayed in hostels during most of it. We used to be given a free drink token on entry to the backpacker nightclubs, the Germans would sit there nursing the free beer for a good 3 hours then head home having not spent a penny.

    Eating out was the McDonakd's Eurosaver (or dollar saver over there). You would never see a German eat anything bigger than a cheeseburger and small fries. An oul Big Mac meal or Quarter Pounder meal was too much money to be spending. They would walk 90 minutes in the blistering heat to avoid paying 2 quid on a bus or train. I doubt any of them ever seen the inside of a taxi.

    A more miserable bunch of bastards you will never meet. I seriously struggle to work out how their economy functions with so many people who refuse to buy anything more than the basic requirements to survive.

    Yet we have the people of ireland filling the countryside with rubbish because they don’t want to pay 100 euro a year for bin collection


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    , I miss some of the 70s/80s... the lack of tolerance

    Ok


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    Manach wrote: »
    While historically there was more emphasis on the repair and restoration of goods that could be passed down from generation to generation - as opposed to the hyperconsumerised society that purchases distance Chinese goods of dubious ethical origin. So the idea of a more custodial attitude to items is a positive.

    However, on the other hand there is a trend encouraged both by Big Tech and now by the Greens that ownership is somehow bad and a move to licencing is to them better. For context, in the book "Copyright Wars" it was shown that weening people from the concept of owning digital items instead of physical objects has been an objective of Intellect Property right posessors. Hence, a future where say physical books are deemed un-ecological and one is only permitted approved and limited use digital books (eg Amazon now effectively books deemed problematic) cannot be ruled out in a world with which the ideas of Green politics and Big Tech merge.

    The second hand book and record shops will sort you out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭ machiavellianme


    I still wear t-shirts that are 25+ years old most days and I haven't bought jeans or shoes in 10 years. People keep giving me jumpers as Christmas presents so I just keep wearing the same stuff. If it's not broke, why replace it? I've never been fashionable so I'm not missing out on much.

    However, I couldn't give a hoot about all this renewable nonsense. It's a money spinner, that's it. Why should Ireland impose such despotic restrictions on its people when our contributions to greenhouse gases and pollution in general is almost negligible on a global scale? When the US and China adopt these proposals, then I'll take note, but until then, the Greens can rot (or in their own lingo - compost) for all I care.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    .

    I was shocked at the amount of plastic wrapping and containers on a fish and chips meal lately.

    It's shocking that there's so much take away foods these days. I've had one since Covid started (work thought they were doing us a favour with justeat vouchers), and the pizza was in a recycled card board box, chips in brown paper, and it all went in the composting bin.

    There's no need for plastic anywhere near fish and chips. It should just be paper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    .

    If you bought a washing machine, tumble dryer, cooker etc in the 70s or 80s you could expect it to last 15+ years with maybe the odd repair. You'd be lucky to get 5-10 with a lot of what's sold now.

    Parents got an indesit washing machine around 1980. It was finally unrepairable by about 2006/7. They still have the glass from the door as a fruit bowl.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    fvp4 wrote: »
    . If we’re going to stop people stop shopping so much in Penney’s then we need to stop people spending so much in Brown Thomas. In fact start here.

    It's not the amount of money spent that's the issue, it's the quantity of polluting items produced that matters. For that reason, Penny's/Primark is an enemy of the people.


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