How many rely on Saorsat?

marclt

Just interested how many viewers Saorsat might have?

If you were reliant on it, you’d be missing out on the Euros right now. With saorview overspill accepted in terms of rights, surely the same could / should apply in this case?

byte

I guess it might be that they don't have rights to be FTA on satellite, regardless of footprint. Who knows?

It's an awful shame though, as if it wasn't bad enough not having the Virgin Media channels.

theguzman

My parents were reliant on it but pay Sky now instead, I got it setup for them in 2012 after the Digital Changeover, they have a 1m dish which has been out of action since Hurricane Ophelia, it would be the third time it was going for realignment. A 1m dish in an exposed place in the West of Ireland just hasn't got a hope of lasting beyond a few years. They should have perfect Saorview coverage but a nearby Wind Farm has decimated the signal since even Analogue days, RTE didn't give a toss either. Summer days like this the Saorview is perfect as the turbines don't spin, a different story when the wind is blowing which is 90% of the time.

Can't wait for them to get the NBI Fibre in and scrap Sky also and get some IPTV service. They are both elderly and only use Sky for RTE and my father EIR sports.

It should have been launched as Saorview via Satellite as a duplicate service or else go down the British route with a Free to View card issued with your licence based on Eircode and lack of Terrestrial signal.

Glaceon

It would probably be cheaper to give basic Sky subs to those who are stuck with Saorsat! I recently read about how they handle this in Australia; a qualified installer assesses the setup and if they confirm that terrestrial reception isn’t possible, then a satellite install is sanctioned.

actua11

It must be possible that some who can't receive Saorview, would just be using an alternative like Sky anyway, not from necessity but for choice. Such that "Not covered by Saorview" does not always equal "must rely on Saorstat"

Though on something like Sky... I have memories that Setanta Ireland were given funding to produce Irish content, and so had to make that available to the Irish public. So, anyone who asked them, would receive an FTV sat card to clear Setanta Sports on Sky. My memory is sketchy, but how might this have worked, and could RTE not use a similar system? Actually even for Saorstat, would FTV cards not just solve any footprint/rights issues as they'd only be issued to Irish residents?

Johnboy1951

Ireland needs a broadcasting system to serve Ireland, under Irish control.

It is a pity they choose (based on cost? and footprint) not to use a similar system to that of Sky.
It would be great is my FTA satellite dish could receive Saorview over Satellite instead of requiring a separate LNB etc..

decor58

actua11 wrote: »

It must be possible that some who can't receive Saorview, would just be using an alternative like Sky anyway, not from necessity but for choice. Such that "Not covered by Saorview" does not always equal "must rely on Saorstat"

Though on something like Sky... I have memories that Setanta Ireland were given funding to produce Irish content, and so had to make that available to the Irish public. So, anyone who asked them, would receive an FTV sat card to clear Setanta Sports on Sky. My memory is sketchy, but how might this have worked, and could RTE not use a similar system? Actually even for Saorstat, would FTV cards not just solve any footprint/rights issues as they'd only be issued to Irish residents?

It's an idea that has been around for some time, but what do you put the card into, Sky won't supply boxes for fta viewing, who would supply the box, so you have a box with 2 cams, one for sub and one for fta. I think I read in Austria viewing cards are or can be issued to tv license holders, smart cards could be switched on/ off as required. Then do you need a STB or does your tv would require a cam, such tvs were common enough a few years ago I don't think they are so common now. It would be great to get all your viewing through one source.

bronkobilly

decor58 wrote: »

It's an idea that has been around for some time, but what do you put the card into, Sky won't supply boxes for fta viewing, who would supply the box, so you have a box with 2 cams, one for sub and one for fta. I think I read in Austria viewing cards are or can be issued to tv license holders, smart cards could be switched on/ off as required. Then do you need a STB or does your tv would require a cam, such tvs were common enough a few years ago I don't think they are so common now. It would be great to get all your viewing through one source.

they do it in france

SeaFields

I have to use it. I'm not into soccer so having the euros or champions League blocked is no big deal personally. I'm more than happy with saorsat rather than sky. Most television I watch is Netflix anyway so a sky sub would be wasted

Johnboy1951

Whatever happened to the idea of BBC being carried on Saorsat?

Feb. 2010:

RTÉ TELEVISION channels and TG4 will be freely available throughout all of Northern Ireland from 2012, once the planned digital television changes come into force, Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan said yesterday.

Some BBC channels will equally be carried free on the system due to come into force in the Republic at the same time, under the deal signed yesterday in London between Mr Ryan and his British counterpart, Ben Bradshaw.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/rt%C3%A9-and-tg4-to-be-freely-available-in-north-in-2012-1.616339

bronkobilly

rte is only on saorsat 9''east short beam so we wont let other countries show wat were watching wat a waste of money i stick to free to air on satellite all bbc's itv's channel 5 s etc just to name a few

bronkobilly

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Whatever happened to the idea of BBC being carried on Saorsat?

Feb. 2010:



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/rt%C3%A9-and-tg4-to-be-freely-available-in-north-in-2012-1.616339

that was before brexit i guess

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Rather than Saor Sat, in an ideal world, it would have made sense to have just had an encrypted trainer on Astra using the same orbital position as Sky. It need not have been in the EPG or using VideoGuard. There are competing technology like ViaAccess and so on they have CI+ card integration into modern TVs too.

It’a done in France for example with TNT Sat, admittedly with a lot more support from Canal+ than Sky ever gave to FTA in the U.K. or here.

It’s leaky, in the sense that people around the neighbouring countries who want to watch French TV can get it without much fuss, but it seems to satisfy the rights holders that it’s not intentionally broadcasting into other markets.

decor58

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Whatever happened to the idea of BBC being carried on Saorsat?

Feb. 2010:



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/rt%C3%A9-and-tg4-to-be-freely-available-in-north-in-2012-1.616339

It came down to who would pay the transmission costs, BBC would be a real boost for SaorView/ Saorsat. VM have no real interest in SaorView, it's only a promo for their subscription service, not in HD on SaorView, not on Saorsat, no player without some form of subscription, RTE would be left to carry the cost.
Freeview and Freesat work because BBC and ITV are behind it, C4 has its issues there too.

marclt

bronkobilly wrote: »

they do it in france

I think in Italy, Sky satellite boxes have to include DTT access. So where there is a (political) will, there is a way….

TAFKAlawhec

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

Rather than Saor Sat, in an ideal world, it would have made sense to have just had an encrypted trainer on Astra using the same orbital position as Sky. It need not have been in the EPG or using VideoGuard. There are competing technology like ViaAccess and so on they have CI+ card integration into modern TVs too.

It’a done in France for example with TNT Sat, admittedly with a lot more support from Canal+ than Sky ever gave to FTA in the U.K. or here.

It’s leaky, in the sense that people around the neighbouring countries who want to watch French TV can get it without much fuss, but it seems to satisfy the rights holders that it’s not intentionally broadcasting into other markets.

There's little point comparing France to Ireland in this regard - France is a country of some 65 million people for whom in other nearby countries that also speak French as a first language, there's around 4.5 million in Belgium and 2 million or so in Switzerland. The consequence of natively French speaking viewers in Belgium & Switzerland, alongside others in places near France that speak French either as a first or as another language, viewing channels/programming for the French market, is not a major concern in most aspects. Indeed, most Francophone viewers in both Belgium & Switzerland get all the major French station via cable anyway, sometimes with localised ads.

There is a parallel in the UK & Rep. Ireland - there is 65 million in the UK, near 5 million in Rep. Ireland. The overspill reception of FTA channels on the "UK" spot beam to viewers in Rep. Ireland is also regarded as not generally consequential.

A more direct parallel for Rep. Ireland would be to Austria & Switzerland, both of whom are relatively small countries that have at least one neighbour that is substantially bigger that it shares a native tongue with. In both countries AFAIK, both countries sell FTV cards that are tied to a local TV licence to limit potential use outside of their territory - Switzerland has an additional way of obtaining a FTV card for SRG/SSR TV broadcasts by being a Swiss citizen abroad (though this involves an annual fee).

A theoretical FTV card scheme for Rep. Ireland at 28E would almost certainly have to be tightly tied similarly to the Austrian & Swiss FTV systems to obstruct as far as is practical reception of such services outside of the state in order to satisfy rights holders.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

TNT SAT & Fransat are both encrypted with ViaAccess.

TNT SAT is just piggybacked on Canal+ satellite services, much like FreeSat, but it’s encrypted.

FranSat is a bit odd, being on Eutelsat 5 West A 5°W and is a spot beam, but also encrypted.

You just pay a €14.00 charge every 4 years, but the cards seem to be very much a fig leaf as they’re often just sold in your average electrical retailer.

My point is that SaorSat might have been better off just going in 28.2°E, on their own transponder, encrypting it themselves and issuing cards & not bothering about Sky too much. VideoGuard is expensive, proprietary and controlled by Sky. You could feasibly encrypt it with other systems that would be totally acceptable to rights holders. Nagravision, ViaAccess etc etc

People could then combine any 28.2°E free to air services on a sat tuner (tv or stb of their choice) with a CI+ slot and a Saorsat card.

It would have made it a very viable product.

It would just mean the RTÉ / TG4 and VM feeds would be on Astra twice, and in two encryption system - independently and as part of Sky.

Johnboy1951

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

TNT SAT & Fransat are both encrypted with ViaAccess.

TNT SAT is just piggybacked on Canal+ satellite services, much like FreeSat, but it’s encrypted.

FranSat is a bit odd, being on Eutelsat 5 West A 5°W and is a spot beam, but also encrypted.

You just pay a €14.00 charge every 4 years, but the cards seem to be very much a fig leaf as they’re often just sold in your average electrical retailer.

My point is that SaorSat might have been better off just going in 28.2°E, on their own transponder, encrypting it themselves and issuing cards & not bothering about Sky too much. VideoGuard is expensive, proprietary and controlled by Sky. You could feasibly encrypt it with other systems that would be totally acceptable to rights holders. Nagravision, ViaAccess etc etc

People could then combine any 28.2°E free to air services on a sat tuner (tv or stb of their choice) with a CI+ slot and a Saorsat card.

It would have made it a very viable product.

It would just mean the RTÉ / TG4 and VM feeds would be on Astra twice, and in two encryption system - independently and as part of Sky.

I wonder what the relative costs of the present system and doing the above would be.

They could have done so at launch of digital, IMO, but it is too late now to change.
The other question that would arise would be households having more than two TVs ...... and the inconvience and cost of more than one decryption system and card ..... if they changed now.

frozenfrozen

What resolution is tg4 on saorsat? If its hd I will try receive it, the saorview quality is poor

mackersdublin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

What resolution is tg4 on saorsat? If its hd I will try receive it, the saorview quality is poor

Only RTÉ One and RTÉ2 are in HD on Saorview and Saorsat

theguzman

TG4 is in HD on Sky but not on Saorview, RTE the PSB really are a joke.

frozenfrozen

Thanks, what a pity. Tg4 hd should be available to watch with an out of subscription sky box since its not available in HD otherwise. I'd watch so much more tg4 if it was HD

mackersdublin

TG4 HD is available on their new player. I have the app on my LG TV

marclt

mackersdublin wrote: »

Only RTÉ One and RTÉ2 are in HD on Saorview and Saorsat

TG4 have previously stated they have no interest (plans) to broadcast in HD on Saorsat.

marclt

funkey_monkey wrote: »

What is the reason for blocking the football?
My understanding was that the satellite has a tight footprint and that there is minimal overspill into GB.

Have they any plans to unblock the football?

Not sure they have a reason, although RTE News Now (in awful resolution) seems to be showing the MKD v NED game unblocked now.

Has anyone asked RTÉ what the deal is?

StreetLight

marclt wrote: »

Has anyone asked RTÉ what the deal is?

RTE tends not to bother replying to queries from us mere mortals.

Capt'n Midnight

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Ireland needs a broadcasting system to serve Ireland, under Irish control.

It is a pity they choose (based on cost? and footprint) not to use a similar system to that of Sky.
It would be great is my FTA satellite dish could receive Saorview over Satellite instead of requiring a separate LNB etc..

BBC and ITV and Channel 4 and Channel 5 don't use SKY's system. The encryption and card costs were too expensive so they just went FTA.

marclt wrote: »

I think in Italy, Sky satellite boxes have to include DTT access. So where there is a (political) will, there is a way….

TivuSat uses a Free To View system. You need a card and you need a PPS number to get it. And you have to buy the card with some hardware.

DTT in Italy has a rake of local channels. Nothing like here.

Capt'n Midnight

frozenfrozen wrote: »

What resolution is tg4 on saorsat? If its hd I will try receive it, the saorview quality is poor

And VM don't even transmit on SaorSat so the bandwidth excuse doesn't stack up.

byte

marclt wrote: »

I think in Italy, Sky satellite boxes have to include DTT access. So where there is a (political) will, there is a way….

Ah yes, there was a DTT USB stick you could insert into Sky Italia boxes to get the DTT channels.

https://www.telekitalia.com/guide/sky/skydigitalkey-digitale-terrestre shows how it works/worked. Interesting how they handled LCN's.

rogue-entity

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

My point is that SaorSat might have been better off just going in 28.2°E, on their own transponder, encrypting it themselves and issuing cards & not bothering about Sky too much. VideoGuard is expensive, proprietary and controlled by Sky. You could feasibly encrypt it with other systems that would be totally acceptable to rights holders. Nagravision, ViaAccess etc etc

From what I remember hearing about it, Sky made a deal with RTÉ whereby in exchange for only being available on Sky's basic package, Sky waived the fees for both EPG position and Encryption and provided transponder space. How much of that was true, or remains true today, I have no idea though.

VideoGuard was never owned, exclusive to or controlled by Sky but by a subsidiary of News Corp. It's been twice sold, to Cisco in 2012 and to an investment firm in the UK in 2014. Whether this means the possibility of a VideoGuard CAM may ever come to pass is anybodies guess however (as much as I would like to it happen).

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

It would just mean the RTÉ / TG4 and VM feeds would be on Astra twice, and in two encryption system - independently and as part of Sky.

It wouldn't need to be on Astra twice, a little known fact is that channels on Sky, channels on Canal+ etc are all encrypted with DVB-CCS; all VideoGuard and friends do is control access to the decryption keys (in a very simplistic view) so so-called simulcrypting is possible where you could transmit a programme and implement VideoGuard to have it available on the Sky platform but also ViaAccess to have it available on a different platform using the same satellite feed.

If RTÉ wanted, they could make ViaAccess CAMs available for purchase along with viewing cards tied to an address and valid TV licence, then any satellite receiver besides Sky's could be used to watch those channels without having to pay twice for the privilege.

theguzman wrote: »

TG4 is in HD on Sky but not on Saorview, RTE the PSB really are a joke.

If I recall reading here before, that's a function of 2RN charging based on bandwidth used, HD uses more bandwidth so comes at a higher cost. DTT in Ireland is a joke in general but not for anything RTÉ have done in and of themselves but rather how the regulators made a complete pigs ear of it.

dulpit

rogue-entity wrote: »

If I recall reading here before, that's a function of 2RN charging based on bandwidth used, HD uses more bandwidth so comes at a higher cost. DTT in Ireland is a joke in general but not for anything RTÉ have done in and of themselves but rather how the regulators made a complete pigs ear of it.

I've asked before, but can't ever remember seeing a definitive answer. For Saorview or Saorsat, is the cost to transmit a channel of content or nothing at all the same from 2RN's point of view? Is it not a fixed charge regardless of whether all capacity is used or not?