What to expect from a HAP inspector report?

icarus_67

So my tenant has informed me that a HAP inspection is to be carried out in a house that I'm renting out next week.
I'm a bit worried about the outcome of the inspection because of the costs involved. I know that a letter is issued to the landlord after an inspection has taken place by the council if there are repairs needed to be carried out.

From reading online it seems that I will have to install child locks on the windows which is a bit of a pain. However there are no windows in the bathroom but there is ventilation - I'm wondering would this be an issue?
I'm just wondering what are the most important things to worry about regarding the inspector's report?

Moonbeam

Do not worry about it, once the house is in a good state and any legal requirements for renting are met. Then it is only little things like in my case the extractor fan needed new filters.

icarus_67

Moonbeam wrote: »

Do not worry about it, once the house is in a good state and any legal requirements for renting are met. Then it is only little things like in my case the extractor fan needed new filters.

Okay thanks cooling me down! It's just that I've heard about people having to "bore a hole" in the walls of the living room etc because of ventilation regulations which made me panic a bit. The regulations seem to be a bit over the top.

Baby01032012

Is the property in good decorative order, no broken glass, tiles, cracks etc.

Open fire, may need Carbon monoxide alarm

Proof of servicing of boiler etc. Certification that up to current regs

Window restrictors are the main thing for any window above 1 meter

Ive had a few inspections on different properties...had 1 last week where report say i need to provide a cooker and tumble dryer (it said tenant provided) ...news to me...waiting for my agent to get back to me on that one...im sure it wasnt let without them or some agreement on rent with tenant!

Better off waiting for report.

icarus_67

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Is the property in good decorative order, no broken glass, tiles, cracks etc.

Open fire, may need Carbon monoxide alarm

Proof of servicing of boiler etc. Certification that up to current regs

Window restrictors are the main thing for any window above 1 meter

Ive had a few inspections on different properties...had 1 last week where report say i need to provide a cooker and tumble dryer (it said tenant provided) ...news to me...waiting for my agent to get back to me on that one...im sure it wasnt let without them or some agreement on rent with tenant!

Better off waiting for report.

What do you mean when you say "im sure it wasnt let without them or some agreement on rent with tenant!". I don't understand what that means?

Did they say in the report when you need to fix everything in the property? Did they give you a month to do all of this stuff for example? Or did they specify an exact date and say something along the lines "On September 21st 2021 you must fix all of these issues etc".

handlemaster

you have to have an electrical report.
If not up to code the work will have to be done.

If you use Gas report also required.

Child locks on all window above I think 2 meters.

Vents in walls etc etc

Ace2007

May be one of the few reason why so many landlords don't want to take HAP tenants.

icarus_67

handlemaster wrote: »

you have to have an electrical report.
If not up to code the work will have to be done.

If you use Gas report also required.

Child locks on all window above I think 2 meters.

Vents in walls etc etc

Why do vents need to be in walls? There is a vent in the kitchen over the stove. There are vents in the bathrooms. Do they also need vents in other places? There are windows in all of the rooms that don't have vents.

icarus_67

handlemaster wrote: »

you have to have an electrical report.
If not up to code the work will have to be done.

If you use Gas report also required.

Child locks on all window above I think 2 meters.

Vents in walls etc etc

The place was built about 15 years ago. I hardly need to provide an electrical report? What happens during an electrical report? What does that entail exactly?

Emma2019

icarus_67 wrote: »

Why do vents need to be in walls? There is a vent in the kitchen over the stove. There are vents in the bathrooms. Do they also need vents in other places? There are windows in all of the rooms that don't have vents.

Ireland has a very damp climate and historically built houses without adequate ventilation leading to mould and condensation being very common.

If your house was built 15 years ago it may have adequate ventilation. The one I'm living in now was built in the 40s and the mould is rampant, in part because of no vents in the main rooms.

icarus_67

Emma2019 wrote: »

Ireland has a very damp climate and historically built houses without adequate ventilation leading to mould and condensation being very common.

If your house was built 15 years ago it may have adequate ventilation. The one I'm living in now was built in the 40s and the mould is rampant, in part because of no vents in the main rooms.

Does the HAP inspector have some sort of discretion when it comes to enforcing the regulations? Like I can understand in your case a home built in the 1940's might need to be subjected to certain regulations etc. But a very modern property that I have certainly doesn't need to be subjected to this kind of nonsense?
The child locks on the windows is one thing....but the idea of needing to bore a hole into every room for a vent because of some stupid regulation is very silly to me.

Ace2007

icarus_67 wrote: »

Does the HAP inspector have some sort of discretion when it comes to enforcing the regulations? Like I can understand in your case a home built in the 1940's might need to be subjected to certain regulations etc. But a very modern property that I have certainly doesn't need to be subjected to this kind of nonsense?
The child locks on the windows is one thing....but the idea of needing to bore a hole into every room for a vent because of some stupid regulation is very silly to me.

It may sound stupid, but if it's regulation it needs to be complied with. If it's modern and meets all the requirements you'll be grand, but if he doesn't than you'll have to get it fixed, usually give 4 weeks (depends on what needs to be done), and failure to carry out the works can see a fine of 5,000. If nothing else comes out of it - you'll probably want to stay away from HAP in future.

icarus_67

Ace2007 wrote: »

It may sound stupid, but if it's regulation it needs to be complied with. If it's modern and meets all the requirements you'll be grand, but if he doesn't than you'll have to get it fixed, usually give 4 weeks (depends on what needs to be done), and failure to carry out the works can see a fine of 5,000. If nothing else comes out of it - you'll probably want to stay away from HAP in future.

Where does it say that a landlord can be fined 5000 Euros for non compliance?

EDIT: Wait I see it mentioned at the bottom of the regulation PDF document. I still can't imagine that kind of thing being enforced. I've heard of people on Boards that ignored the letter that stipulates improvements that need to be made. A year or more passed and nothing has happened.

ednwireland

Ace2007 wrote: »

May be one of the few reason why so many landlords don't want to take HAP tenants.

not just hap
https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/general/S.I_._137_of_2019_.pdf

Ventilation
8. (1) Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as a
habitable room shall have adequate ventilation.
(2)All means of ventilation shall be maintained in good repair and working
order.
(3)Adequate ventilation shall be provided for the removal of water vapour
from every kitchen and bathroom

i dont beleive there is any exemption for older properties (my own house has 3 ft think stone walls)

did get a prtb communication saying the property needs an upto date electrical cert as well (in the process of sorting even though its not mentioned in there own documentation)

https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/what-minimum-standards-must-a-property-meet

anyone who says all those empty properties should be rented should read through that (doesnt apply if your buying it)

icarus_67

What is an electric certificate though? Is ECTI certificate the same as an electric cert? Do most modern homes have one from the very beginning?

icarus_67

When it says " Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as a
habitable room shall have adequate ventilation." ...isn't that open for interpretation? What is defined as "ventilation"?

Does that specifically refer to an actual vent? Or does a window count as a source of adequate ventilation?

honda boi

A house I lived in(renting), had an inspection done by hap before covid fully hit , so around February/march I think of 2020.

Yep they look for vents in all rooms(bathrooms need extraction fans).
There was one room in the house that didn't have a vent and it would usually get a bit mouldy( I would just treat it and paint it myself) , hap inspector said it needed a vent and I got a vent done and it never became mouldy after that.

Needed an electrical cert( electrician came around a tested all sockets,lights and earthing, it is known as a periodic inspection report), plumber did a full inspection of oil burner/tank and serviced it.

Chimney had to be cleaned.

Child locks upstairs to be fitted( we have 3 young kids, we already had them in there 2 rooms but needed them in the bathroom and our room).

Carbon monoxide alarms to be installed upstairs and in living room aswell as replace smoke alarms. Also fire blanket in kitchen.

Gutters to be cleaned.

Mentioned about windows being serviced but I just checked them and made sure they were ok.

I think that was all that this house needed.

Now this house isn't an ancient house. I think that house was built around 2006.

After getting all this done, they never came back to inspect it, a year later and still nothing ,( I only moved out in may ) I'm not sure if it's due to covid or whatever.

handlemaster

icarus_67 wrote: »

Why do vents need to be in walls? There is a vent in the kitchen over the stove. There are vents in the bathrooms. Do they also need vents in other places? There are windows in all of the rooms that don't have vents.

Lol. Ask Hap

handlemaster

icarus_67 wrote: »

When it says " Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as a
habitable room shall have adequate ventilation." ...isn't that open for interpretation? What is defined as "ventilation"?

Does that specifically refer to an actual vent? Or does a window count as a source of adequate ventilation?

No it doesn't. A vent is to provide ventilation. There needs to be one.

handlemaster

icarus_67 wrote: »

What is an electric certificate though? Is ECTI certificate the same as an electric cert? Do most modern homes have one from the very beginning?

Don't.worry about it. HAP will inspect the property and give you thr list of things to do.

icarus_67

honda boi wrote: »

A house I lived in(renting), had an inspection done by hap before covid fully hit , so around February/march I think of 2020.

Yep they look for vents in all rooms(bathrooms need extraction fans).
There was one room in the house that didn't have a vent and it would usually get a bit mouldy( I would just treat it and paint it myself) , hap inspector said it needed a vent and I got a vent done and it never became mouldy after that.

Needed an electrical cert( electrician came around a tested all sockets,lights and earthing, it is known as a periodic inspection report), plumber did a full inspection of oil burner/tank and serviced it.

Chimney had to be cleaned.

Child locks upstairs to be fitted( we have 3 young kids, we already had them in there 2 rooms but needed them in the bathroom and our room).

Carbon monoxide alarms to be installed upstairs and in living room aswell as replace smoke alarms. Also fire blanket in kitchen.

Gutters to be cleaned.

Mentioned about windows being serviced but I just checked them and made sure they were ok.

I think that was all that this house needed.

Now this house isn't an ancient house. I think that house was built around 2006.

After getting all this done, they never came back to inspect it, a year later and still nothing ,( I only moved out in may ) I'm not sure if it's due to covid or whatever.

Thanks for the very detailed reply.

Can I ask how long did it take for the vent to be installed? Was it a very invasive procedure?

Do you know how much the electric cert cost?

icarus_67

handlemaster wrote: »

Don't.worry about it. HAP will inspect the property and give you thr list of things to do.

Well I'm really worried about the costs involved. Especially the whole vent installation thing. I would need to install 4 vents in order to make sure the property complies with the regulations.

icarus_67

handlemaster wrote: »

No it doesn't. A vent is to provide ventilation. There needs to be one.

There are huge windows in the living room. I don't understand why I need to spend money on a vent when there are windows that can do the same job? It's overkill and costly.

ted1

handlemaster wrote: »

No it doesn't. A vent is to provide ventilation. There needs to be one.

Even in a airtight house? With a mechanical system

Ace2007

icarus_67 wrote: »

There are huge windows in the living room. I don't understand why I need to spend money on a vent when there are windows that can do the same job? It's overkill and costly.

Are the windows always open?

icarus_67

Ace2007 wrote: »

Are the windows always open?

Not always no? The house I'm currently in and the house I grew up in never had vents in each room. It's total overkill.

Normally people would open a window when they need to to let fresh air in. A new vent in each room would cost 250 Euros each approximately. It's crazy.

honda boi

icarus_67 wrote: »

Thanks for the very detailed reply.

Can I ask how long did it take for the vent to be installed? Was it a very invasive procedure?

Do you know how much the electric cert cost?

No problem.
The vent I got lucky with because there was a hole already through the concrete of the outside.
Someone just plastered over where the hole was meant to be inside so I just had to make a hole in the plasterboard and stick a vent over it.
Before I noticed there was already a hole I was quoted I think €100-150 for the hole to be done. Was told they have equipment that means no mess and it wouldn't take that long.

If I remember correctly the test cost about €250.
House needed a €100 worth of work done( earth cable needed at sink and shavers in the bathroom needed to be changed and a light cover in the bathroom needed fitted.) A friend of mine does that work in Dublin and said it usually costs alot more money to get a fully Certified cert because there is usually alot of work needed. ( No idea how true this is)

dancingqueen

icarus_67 wrote: »

Not always no? The house I'm currently in and the house I grew up in never had vents in each room. It's total overkill.

Normally people would open a window when they need to to let fresh air in. A new vent in each room would cost 250 Euros each approximately. It's crazy.

It isn't overkill and any tenant can request an inspection from their local council to ensure their rented property (that they are paying "crazy" money to rent) complies with regulations. HAP means that the council ensures that their tenants are protected, seeing as they are the ones paying for it. Unfortunately most renters do not know their rights. There are a lot of really bad properties out there.

icarus_67

dancingqueen wrote: »

It isn't overkill and any tenant can request an inspection from their local council to ensure their rented property (that they are paying "crazy" money to rent) complies with regulations. HAP means that the council ensures that their tenants are protected, seeing as they are the ones paying for it. Unfortunately most renters do not know their rights. There are a lot of really bad properties out there.

Well what happens if the landlord can't afford these new regulations and has to either substantially raise the rent or kick the HAP tenant out and just get a private tenant? Have you ever thought about that? It's ridiculous.

Ace2007

icarus_67 wrote: »

Not always no? The house I'm currently in and the house I grew up in never had vents in each room. It's total overkill.

Normally people would open a window when they need to to let fresh air in. A new vent in each room would cost 250 Euros each approximately. It's crazy.

It's not just about letting fresh air in though.

icarus_67

Ace2007 wrote: »

It's not just about letting fresh air in though.

Is it just habitable rooms that need to be ventilated? Like bedrooms? Not every room?

dancingqueen

icarus_67 wrote: »

Well what happens if the landlord can't afford these new regulations and has to kick the HAP tenant out and just get a private tenant? Have you ever thought about that? It's ridiculous.

Well like any profitable business, it is up to the landlord to ensure they can maintain the property they own so it is fit for renting. If I was a tenant in a property, I can report a landlord for not providing something within minimum regulations. You can't just kick out a HAP tenant either. I'm glad you're not my landlord.

lawrencesummers

Don’t look at a HAP report as a cost.


Look at it as peace of mind that your house has been professionally inspected and the tenants living there are safe.

A few latches on windows is well worth it to prevent a child falling out a window.
An electrical cert is worth it to know someone is t electrocuted.


Any costs associated with bringing it up to scratch are deductible from your tax bill. Think of it as a getting a free engineers inspection

dancingqueen

icarus_67 wrote: »

Is it just habitable rooms that need to be ventilated? Like bedrooms? Not every room?

Every room needs to be ventilated.

They will test the strength of the extractor in the bathroom, to make sure it takes out adequate steam from the shower. If it is 15 years old it probably isn't efficient enough. Extractor fan is required over the cooker. Drying facilities are required, whether in the form of outside space to dry clothes or a tumble dryer/combi washing machine drier. They will check for window restrictors on windows where the bottom of the window is 1.4m above ground. They will check for a fire extinguisher and evacuation plan in the event of a fire, gas boiler serviced within 1 year and carbon monoxide alarm. A microwave and kettle need to be provided. You can view all these things online, standard minimum regulations for tenants.

coolbeans

icarus_67 wrote: »

Well what happens if the landlord can't afford these new regulations and has to either substantially raise the rent or kick the HAP tenant out and just get a private tenant? Have you ever thought about that? It's ridiculous.

Well then the landlord should be asking themselves can they afford to be a landlord in the first instance? Throwing a thousand quid at a house should not be a big deal if you've managed income right to pay for maintenance etc. And yes, I'm a landlord.

lawrencesummers

icarus_67 wrote: »

Well I'm really worried about the costs involved. Especially the whole vent installation thing. I would need to install 4 vents in order to make sure the property complies with the regulations.

Any costs associated with repairs is deductible from your tax liability.

So you either pay to have the work done, or you pay more tax.

icarus_67

dancingqueen wrote: »

Well like any profitable business, it is up to the landlord to ensure they can maintain the property they own so it is fit for renting. If I was a tenant in a property, I can report a landlord for not providing something within minimum regulations. You can't just kick out a HAP tenant either. I'm glad you're not my landlord.

Well I certainly have no intention of kicking them out. I'm not a monster. But I'll most definitely will have to raise the rent to cover these costs.

So all of these silly regulations are going to affect the tenant more than anyone.

icarus_67

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Any costs associated with repairs is deductible from your tax liability.

So you either pay to have the work done, or you pay more tax.

So I'm actually not really losing any money in the end?

dancingqueen

icarus_67 wrote: »

Well I certainly have no intention of kicking them out. I'm not a monster. But I'll most definitely will have to raise the rent to cover these costs.

So all of these silly regulations are going to affect the tenant more than anyone.

Hate to break it to you but you can't do that either. The HAP crowd will have accepted the rent initially agreed before the inspection.

Regulations are to protect both tenant and landlord. Silly to you, not silly to most.

icarus_67

dancingqueen wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but you can't do that either. The HAP crowd will have accepted the rent initially agreed before the inspection.

Regulations are to protect both tenant and landlord. Silly to you, not silly to most.

What do you mean? I receive the full amount that's allowed from HAP and also a I receive a top-up from the tenant.

Isn't it at my discretion to increase the amount of top up I receive from the tenant? The HAP crowd have no involvement with the top-up that I receive.

mrslancaster

icarus_67 wrote: »

What do you mean? I receive the full amount that's allowed from HAP and also a I receive a top-up from the tenant.

Isn't it at my discretion to increase the amount of top up I receive from the tenant? The HAP crowd have no involvement with the top-up that I receive.

Is the house in a RPZ? You cant just raise the rent immediatley to cover your costs, there's regulations about how often rents can increase

icarus_67

mrslancaster wrote: »

Is the house in a RPZ? You cant just raise the rent immediatley to cover your costs, there's regulations about how often rents can increase

No, it's not in a RPZ. The last time I raised rent was a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure enough time has passed so that I can raise it again although I'll have to look it up.

However if I can cover these costs by deducting them in my tax bill I may not have to raise the rent. But I'm not entirely sure how that works.

Ace2007

icarus_67 wrote: »

What do you mean? I receive the full amount that's allowed from HAP and also a I receive a top-up from the tenant.

Isn't it at my discretion to increase the amount of top up I receive from the tenant? The HAP crowd have no involvement with the top-up that I receive.

Is the top up part from the tenant under the table or does the council know about it?

handlemaster

icarus_67 wrote: »

Not always no? The house I'm currently in and the house I grew up in never had vents in each room. It's total overkill.

Normally people would open a window when they need to to let fresh air in. A new vent in each room would cost 250 Euros each approximately. It's crazy.

approximately. It's crazy.[/quote]

Its the rules they go by. I had electrics to upgrade house electrics not exactly to the code of today. Vent to input. Locks, plaster work after work etc. Cost 4k approx

icarus_67

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is the top up part from the tenant under the table or does the council know about it?

The council is fully aware of it and it's a completely normal practice. It's very common for a tenant's rent to exceed the maximum amount that they can receive from HAP so that's where the "top-up" comes from.

mrslancaster

icarus_67 wrote: »

No, it's not in a RPZ. The last time I raised rent was a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure enough time has passed so that I can raise it again although I'll have to look it up.

However if I can cover these costs by deducting them in my tax bill I may not have to raise the rent. But I'm not entirely sure how that works.

If you include the cost of certain repairs in your rental tax return it will reduce your taxable income.

dancingqueen

icarus_67 wrote: »

No, it's not in a RPZ. The last time I raised rent was a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure enough time has passed so that I can raise it again although I'll have to look it up.

However if I can cover these costs by deducting them in my tax bill I may not have to raise the rent. But I'm not entirely sure how that works.

You can't just raise the rent. Outside an RPZ, rent cannot be raised for 24 months after the start of a new tenancy. I suggest you read up things, or you could get yourself into a bit of bother.

icarus_67

mrslancaster wrote: »

If you include the cost of certain repairs in your rental tax return it will reduce your taxable income.

Thanks for that information but I don't think this covers things that need to be installed in a property in order for it to meeting new building regulatory standards?

icarus_67

handlemaster wrote: »

Its the rules they go by. I had electrics to upgrade house electrics not exactly to the code of today. Vent to input. Locks, plaster work after work etc. Cost 4k approx

Woah. 4k? Were you able to deduct those costs on your tax returns in any way?

icarus_67

dancingqueen wrote: »

You can't just raise the rent. Outside an RPZ, rent cannot be raised for 24 months after the start of a new tenancy. I suggest you read up things, or you could get yourself into a bit of bother.

Well that's the thing. It's not a new tenancy. The tenant has been living there for years. The last time I raised rent was a year and a half ago. So does that mean I'm allowed to raise the rent in 6 months time?

dancingqueen

icarus_67 wrote: »

Well that's the thing. It's not a new tenancy. The tenant has been living there for years. The last time I raised rent was a year and a half ago. So does that mean I'm allowed to raise the rent in 6 months time?

No. Because the HAP agreement is a new tenancy, they are your new tenant, in effect. I would check this though with the PRTB. I believe that once they accept to pay the rent on behalf of the tenant that amount stands for the 24 months.

Tenants are also afforded part 6 tenancy rights, previously part 4.