Germany urges EU to end individual state's veto rights

FFVII

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0607/1226474-germany-veto-call/

Big Bullies, pretending its about Israel is funny.

"They took our money (tax)" "Irish wh*res"

buried

That Heiko Mass lad looks like one of them priests from Father Ted

Ubbquittious

Of course they do. With their 80m+ population they'll be able to muscle many a smaller country out of the way. Load of arrogant sh1ts.


If this ever came to a referendum in Ireland people would stupidly vote yes to it because people feel like they owe Germany something and that Germany is actually a better country than Ireland and we must do as they tell us. Kind of like with Lisbon/Nice.

matchthis

Let them go with out for a few years and we’ll review it

dxhound2005

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Of course they do. With their 80m+ population they'll be able to muscle many a smaller country out of the way. Load of arrogant sh1ts.


If this ever came to a referendum in Ireland people would stupidly vote yes to it because people feel like they owe Germany something and that Germany is actually a better country than Ireland and we must do as they tell us. Kind of like with Lisbon/Nice.

The first Lisbon result had us on course to leave the EU. Countries can't be members unless they ratify all the agreed treaties. We would have done an Irexit long before the Brits, but people saw sense the second time. Every other member state ratified it in their parliaments.

Definitely a great idea.

Junkyard Tom

He's right.

Ubbquittious

Ubbquittious wrote: »

If this ever came to a referendum in Ireland people would stupidly vote yes to it because people feel like they owe Germany something and that Germany is actually a better country than Ireland and we must do as they tell us. Kind of like with Lisbon/Nice.

They'd vote 'Yes' because the media, Europe and the politicians would tell them to to do so. Anyone who questions it would be lumped in with the conspiracy theorists and fascists.

dxhound2005

tara2k wrote: »

They'd vote 'Yes' because the media, Europe and the politicians would tell them to to do so. Anyone who questions it would be lumped in with the conspiracy theorists and fascists.

They would vote against whatever the sitting government wanted, just to give them a kicking.

85603

no rush to do that.

Guy:Incognito

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Of course they do. With their 80m+ population they'll be able to muscle many a smaller country out of the way. Load of arrogant sh1ts..

Their population doesnt make a difference. Each country has a vote. Majority rules is ok in pretty much all other voting issues.

You wouldnt be in favour of having an individual veto in an election here. Only Roscommon voted against the marriage equality referendum in 2015, would you think it was fair if they could then veto the whole thing?

Ubbquittious

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They would vote against whatever the sitting government wanted, just to give them a kicking.

Ah but once they've had their little tantrum out the way they quickly realise they have to clean up the mess and fall into line for Europe before Germany goes all blitzkrieg on their ass

Ubbquittious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Their population doesnt make a difference. Each country has a vote. Majority rules is ok in pretty much all other voting issues.

You wouldnt be in favour of having an individual veto in an election here. Only Roscommon voted against the marriage equality referendum in 2015, would you think it was fair if they could then veto the whole thing?

That would only make sense if you're in favour of the "EU Superstate" ideology.

dxhound2005

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Ah but once they've had their little tantrum out the way they quickly realise they have to clean up the mess and fall into line for Europe before Germany goes all blitzkrieg on their ass

Major decisions like Lisbon and Brexit should not be decided by referendum. A minority of those entitled to vote on a certain day (37% in the case of Brexit) decide the fate of generations to come.

If a political party stands in the election on an anti Lisbon or pro Brexit platform and gets a majority fair enough. Not a Yes/No to something which would take thousands of pages to explain.

Ubbquittious

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Major decisions like Lisbon and Brexit should not be decided by referendum. A minority of those entitled to vote a a certain day (37% in the case of Brexit) decide the fate of generations to come.

If a political party stands in the election on an anti Lisbon or pro Brexit platform and gets a majority fair enough. Not a Yes/No to something which would take thousands of pages to explain.

Its the only way to decide them. What kind of sh1te are you spouting here, are you in favour of some sort of quare EU dictatorship where nobody can leave?

dxhound2005

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Its the only way to decide them. What kind of sh1te are you spouting here, are you in favour of some sort of quare EU dictatorship where nobody can leave?

Political parties can make a case to the people in elections. And their parliaments can decide. It called representative democracy. Better than a snapshot of the population on one day deciding the future for everyone else.

Every country can leave the EU. I think there is an Irexit type party here you can vote for.

Guy:Incognito

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Its the only way to decide them.

It is in its ****e. A tiny minority of people voting in the Lisbon referendum understood it. If a couple of hundred read the thing I'd be surprised.

tara2k wrote: »

They'd vote 'Yes' because the media, Europe and the politicians would tell them to to do so. .

and of course the people advocating a no vote would be the ones who really know what theyre talking about , yeah? Funny that...

Ubbquittious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It is in its ****e. A tiny minority of people voting in the Lisbon referendum understood it. If a couple of hundred read the thing I'd be surprised.

What would you do instead? Let the sorting hat from Hogwarts decide?

biddyearley

Thin end of the wedge.

No thanks Germany....

Guy:Incognito

Ubbquittious wrote: »

That would only make sense if you're in favour of the "EU Superstate" ideology.

You didnt answer any of what I said.

Whats "Eu supersate" about a simple majority decision btw?

Guy:Incognito

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What would you do instead? Let the sorting hat from Hogwarts decide?

Let the people we elect to make the decisions decide. You know, the way we do for decisions that dont make changes to the constitution and how the rest of Europe do.

Or should we just do away with all elected officials and every single decision made in the country can be done by referendum? We can have 10 or 20 a week, at least itll keep us all busy.

Ubbquittious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You didnt answer any of what I said.

Whats "Eu supersate" about a simple majority decision btw?

It would be no longer done by country and large countries would gain the ability to downfoist unpopular rules onto all the smaller ones

Ubbquittious

Ubbquittious wrote: »

That would only make sense if you're in favour of the "EU Superstate" ideology.

Some people might want that. Not feeling much love for politicians in Ireland. An overlord in central Europe must work for some people.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Major decisions like Lisbon and Brexit should not be decided by referendum.

Decisions like that have to be made via a referendum.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and of course the people advocating a no vote would be the ones who really know what theyre talking about , yeah? Funny that...

No, you'd have an equal distribution of informed and uninformed people on both sides of the debate.

Ubbquittious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Let the people we elect to make the decisions decide. You know, the way we do for decisions that dont make changes to the constitution and how the rest of Europe do.

Or should we just do away with all elected officials and every single decision made in the country can be done by referendum? We can have 10 or 20 a week, at least itll keep us all busy.

Important stuff should be done by referendum. Maybe not do away with them completely but they shouldn't have as much power


The way it is now they promise the sun, moon and stars and once they have a nice juicy lump of a 5-year mandate they just kind of do their own thing. Any auld unpopular stuff they were hiding up their sleeve they foist it upon us

Guy:Incognito

Ubbquittious wrote: »

It would be no longer done by country and large countries would gain the ability to downfoist unpopular rules onto all the smaller ones

Whats your definition of a large country? Only 7 eu countries have a population over 12m. Only the top 5 are over 20m

So if anything, itd look like the smaller countries could very easily foist decisions on the big ones.


How would removing the veto change anything other than it now being that decisions are made by majority? Other than you deciding it of course......

You keep saying things will be a certain way but not explaining how they will be this way.

TefalBrain

Germany can piss off.

_Kaiser_

Ah look. Now that the end of the Covid is on the horizon, Germany is throwing its weight around again knowing that harsh economic times lie ahead.

It's the Financial Crisis all over again. I wonder what we'll be bullied into accepting for "our own good" this time....

odyssey06

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Political parties can make a case to the people in elections. And their parliaments can decide. It called representative democracy. Better than a snapshot of the population on one day deciding the future for everyone else.

Every country can leave the EU. I think there is an Irexit type party here you can vote for.

This is fundamentally different.
We elect a government with a mandate given by a snapshot of the population on one day.
If the government pass a domestic law the electorate disapprove of, they can elect a different government to reverse or ameloriate that law.

If we let a government sign away rights to the EU, we have no way to restore them even by rejecting that government at the next election other than leaving the EU. That's not representative democracy anymore.

Nope. More checks and balances are needed for such decisions which remove powers from the electorate in perpetuity.

dxhound2005

Ubbquittious wrote: »

It would be no longer done by country and large countries would gain the ability to downfoist unpopular rules onto all the smaller ones

Bombay mix
In 2006, the Sun reported that “nutty” EU officials wanted to rename Bombay mix Mumbai mix, “to make the snack politically correct”.

This story is completely fictional.

Barmaids’ boobs
There was outrage in 2005 at suggestions that the EU was about to stick red tape all over the exposed busts of British barmaids.

“Po-faced penpushers have deemed it a HEALTH HAZARD for bar girls to show too much cleavage,” wailed the Sun in an article headlined “Hands off our barmaids’ boobs”, which contended that “in a daft directive … Brussels bureaucrats have ordered a cover-up”.

That might be amusing but it was 40 years of relentless anti EU propaganda in the British press that led to Brexit.

amacca

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah look. Now that the end of the Covid is on the horizon, Germany is throwing its weight around again knowing that harsh economic times lie ahead.

It's the Financial Crisis all over again. I wonder what we'll be bullied into accepting for "our own good" this time....

While I may agree I find it amusing a Kaiser is speaking out against Germany.