Is Magnesium Citrate absorber better than Magnesium Oxide?

mrtom

I take 500 mg of Mg Oxide daily yeilding 300mg Elemental Mg. However I'm reading there is only a 5% absorbition whereas Mg Citrate has much better bioavailability. What do you think?

Alf Veedersane

mrtom wrote: »

I take 500 mg of Mg Oxide daily yeilding 300mg Elemental Mg. However I'm reading there is only a 5% absorbition whereas Mg Citrate has much better bioavailability. What do you think?

Magnesium oxide is essentially a waste of money.

https://sigmanutrition.com/making-cut-part-iii-supplementation-combat-sports/

Number 3 about two-thirds of the way down.

mrtom

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Magnesium oxide is essentially a waste of money.

https://sigmanutrition.com/making-cut-part-iii-supplementation-combat-sports/

Number 3 about two-thirds of the way down.

Clear.

markmoto

mrtom wrote: »

I take 500 mg of Mg Oxide daily yeilding 300mg Elemental Mg. However I'm reading there is only a 5% absorbition whereas Mg Citrate has much better bioavailability. What do you think?

Why do you take magnesium?
Do you take anything else?
citrate usually have better absorption but I would opt for natural form. Not fun of holland&barret but they have 5 forms of magnesium from marine salt.

https://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/shop/product/together-natural-marine-magnesium-capsules-60010639

Mellor

markmoto wrote: »

Why do you take magnesium?
Do you take anything else?
citrate usually have better absorption but I would opt for natural form. Not fun of holland&barret but they have 5 forms of magnesium from marine salt.

https://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/shop/product/together-natural-marine-magnesium-capsules-60010639

What is “natural form” of magnesium?
Magnesium oxide is naturally occurring for example. And useless as a supplement.

markmoto

Mellor wrote: »

What is “natural form” of magnesium?
Magnesium oxide is naturally occurring for example. And useless as a supplement.

Natural forms extracted from food sources. (Not synthetic versions)
Oxide not the best form of magnesium but not useless also absorbed by the body and used in over 300 enzymatic reactions.

Human body absorb upto 30-40% magnesium intake regardless. In most cases far below that threshold

mrtom

Mellor wrote: »

What is “natural form” of magnesium?
Magnesium oxide is naturally occurring for example. And useless as a supplement.

"500 mg of Mg Oxide daily yeilding 300mg Elemental Mg". I seem to have missunderstood what this means.

Why do I take this? As part of a strategy to optimise my overall health. Am here to learn!

markmoto

mrtom wrote: »

"500 mg of Mg Oxide daily yeilding 300mg Elemental Mg". I seem to have missunderstood what this means.

Why do I take this? As part of a strategy to optimise my overall health. Am here to learn!

Supplements usually used short term to fix certain issues. Eating healthy diet would give you enough magnesium.

What is your plans?

mrtom

markmoto wrote: »

Supplements usually used short term to fix certain issues. Eating healthy diet would give you enough magnesium.

What is your plans?

To act on what I'm learning;
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221451411500121X

And your plans?

silverharp

I make Magnesium Bicarbonate from Magnesium Hydroxide . Cheap as chips

Mellor

mrtom wrote: »

"500 mg of Mg Oxide daily yeilding 300mg Elemental Mg". I seem to have missunderstood what this means.

Why do I take this? As part of a strategy to optimise my overall health. Am here to learn!

It means that magnesium oxide is 60% magnesium (40% oxygen). Bit you can’t absorb it easily so it’s not a good for to supplement with.

markmoto wrote: »

Supplements usually used short term to fix certain issues. Eating healthy diet would give you enough magnesium.

Both of those sentences are incorrect.
There’s many supplements that provide long term supplementary benefits.
A healthy diet doesn’t necessarily achieve optimal levels of all micros. Vitamin D and Magnesium are two in particular that are commonly suboptimal

markmoto

mrtom wrote: »

To act on what I'm learning;
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221451411500121X

And your plans?

I see, yeah commercially grown vegetable how much lower nutritional value.
soil depleted and they don't put enough minerals back
https://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-and-environment/nutritional-content-zmaz09jjzraw

markmoto

Mellor wrote: »

Both of those sentences are incorrect.
There’s many supplements that provide long term supplementary benefits.
A healthy diet doesn’t necessarily achieve optimal levels of all micros. Vitamin D and Magnesium are two in particular that are commonly suboptimal

For certain medical condition supplements might require long term.
For everyone else short term with adjustment to proper balance diet.

You need to evaluate your self and see if you are deficient for one or another.
And not start taking pills after watching TV series or reading some online articles. I am afraid not.

Minerals /vitamins works in groups and taking single without knowing all aspects might never work too well.


Not to mention many supplements just empty fancy looking bottles with no real nutritional value. But I don't want to go into that direction in this thread.

markmoto

silverharp wrote: »

I make Magnesium Bicarbonate from Magnesium Hydroxide . Cheap as chips

: ) what else do you produce?

Mellor

Natural forms extracted from food sources. (Not synthetic versions)
Oxide not the best form of magnesium but not useless also absorbed by the body and used in over 300 enzymatic reactions.

Human body absorb up to 30-40% magnesium intake regardless. In most cases far below that threshold

Biochemically, a naturally molecule and a synthetic one are the same.
Beside, the supplement as Magnesium refined from seawater, which isn't a food source.

The magnesium oxide used in enzymatic reactions magnesium oxidised in biological process, not consumed mag.oxide.

Magnesium oxide is maybe 4% available. Better forms are 30-40%.
So unless oxide is 10 times cheaper, it's a waste of money.
Useless was perhaps unfair, as it is apparently has uses in laxatives.

markmoto wrote: »

For certain medical condition supplements might require long term.
For everyone else short term with adjustment to proper balance diet.

That is simply incorrect.
Do some research, the info is in the thread already so not hard to find.

You need to evaluate your self and see if you are deficient for one or another.
And not start taking pills after watching TV series or reading some online articles. I am afraid not.

Deficiency is one reason, not the only reason.

Minerals /vitamins works in groups and taking single without knowing all aspects might never work too well.

How could somebody only have a single minerals or vitamins in their diet?
Even if they only supplement with magnesium, they'll have dozens others from their diet.

Not to mention many supplements just empty fancy looking bottles with no real nutritional value. But I don't want to go into that direction in this thread.

Seams unrelated to the thread.
If you didn't want to mention it, why mention it?

markmoto

Mellor wrote: »

Biochemically, a naturally molecule and a synthetic one are the same.
Beside, the supplement as Magnesium refined from seawater, which isn't a food source.

If seawater is not food source I suppose petrochemicals is what you aiming as one? Compilation of studies.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Arvind_Singh56/post/Are_synthetic_vitamins_effective/attachment/5df85e80cfe4a777d4fb69b8/AS%3A836959941447681%401576558208844/download/1.pdf

Mellor

markmoto wrote: »

If seawater is not food source...

Yes. Humans don’t eat seawater.

I suppose petrochemicals is what you aiming as one?

I’ve no idea what this is supposed to say.

Compilation of studies.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Arvind_Singh56/post/Are_synthetic_vitamins_effective/attachment/5df85e80cfe4a777d4fb69b8/AS%3A836959941447681%401576558208844/download/1.pdf

That’s a collection of claims, not a collection of studies. Have you actually read it? Because it’s full of contradictions to your post.

Two of the first 4 studies are from 1939 and 1940. Some of coal tar extract as as vitamin supplement. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that that the B6 content of coal is not what was harmful, but other compounds.

It also lists the additives in vitamins. Dyes, carcinogenic additives, etc. Ignoring the fact that many of those additives are banned (and not used). If something contains additional toxic ingredients, it’s those additives that are toxic, not the magnesium citrate, or the vitamin C - which are different molecules.
But some course are used, and are heavily tested.

After that it devolves into multiple sources for various hack authors trying to spin various books/websites/agendas.

Although scientists can make seawater with exactly the same chemical structure as natural seawater, when you put a salt-water fish in this synthetic environment, the fish dies

That is untrue.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_seawater

Mega doses of synthetic vitamins can have very serious toxic effects. Naturally-occurring whole-food vitamins are not toxic

That is untrue. Toxicity limits also apply to natural substances. Obviously. Some of the most toxic substances are natural.

It’s not all nonsense of course;

Putting the word "natural" on the vitamin label is, in most cases today, deceptive. The word is constantly abused and, as such, its meaning has been diluted to a point where it holds little value.

But in all seriousness, the valid parts of it are saying that natural sources (compared to supplements) have addition benefits like antioxidants, enzymes and other nutrients. Nobody has suggested otherwise. But that doesn’t mean that natural derived molecules behaviour differently.
If synthetic magnesium oxide is not bioavailable, neither is natural.

markmoto

Mellor wrote: »

Yes. Humans don’t eat seawater.

Definition of food; "any nutritious substance that people or animals eat or drink or that plants absorb in order to maintain life and growth."

Deep sea water (DSW) commonly refers to a body of seawater that is pumped up from a depth of over 200 m. It is usually associated with the following characteristics: low temperature, high purity, and being rich with nutrients, namely, beneficial elements, which include magnesium, calcium, potassium, chromium, selenium, zinc, and vanadium. Less photosynthesis of plant planktons, consumption of nutrients, and organic decomposition have caused lots of nutrients to remain there. Due to this, DSW has potential to become a good source for health. Research has proven that DSW can help overcome health problems especially related to lifestyle-associated diseases such as cardiovascular disease, diabetes, obesity, cancer, and skin problems. This paper reviews the potential health benefits of DSW by referring to the findings from previous researches.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5221345/

Mellor wrote: »

I’ve no idea what this is supposed to say.


That’s a collection of claims, not a collection of studies. Have you actually read it? Because it’s full of contradictions to your post.

...But that doesn’t mean that natural derived molecules behaviour differently.
If synthetic magnesium oxide is not bioavailable, neither is natural.

In previous post you said "Biochemically, a naturally molecule and a synthetic one are the same."
Hence I assume you see no difference between vitamins extracted from food and synthetic versions made using petroleum products. However number of studies shown synthetic versions work less effective and some synthetic versions absolutely useless.

And if you have no idea (as you said above) have a look below what used to make synthetic vitamins.

Mellor wrote: »

That is untrue.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_seawater

Artificial and synthetic two different animals.
Btw never refer to Wikipedia is not a reliable source at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_reliable_source#:~:text=Wikipedia%20is%20not%20a%20reliable%20source%20for%20citations%20elsewhere%20on,progress%2C%20or%20just%20plain%20wrong.

notAMember

Sweet baby Jesus don’t let pumped deep sea water become a food fad. We have destroyed enough of the ocean already.

Mellor

markmoto wrote: »

Definition of food; "any nutritious substance that people or animals eat or drink or that plants absorb in order to maintain life and growth."

Deep sea water (DSW)...

Jesus wept.

In previous post you said "Biochemically, a naturally molecule and a synthetic one are the same."
Hence I assume you see no difference between vitamins extracted from food and synthetic versions made using petroleum products. However number of studies shown synthetic versions work less effective and some synthetic versions absolutely useless.

Can you point to one of these studies, that shown natural molecule and an identical synthetic molecule behave differently.
As none of the previous links did that. They refer to substances other than the vitamin content. which to appear to be failing to understand.

And if you have no idea (as you said above) have a look below what used to make synthetic vitamins.

I said I had no idea what you were typing. At no point did I claim petrochemicals were food. Reading comprehension is required skill.

Artificial and synthetic two different animals.
Btw never refer to Wikipedia is not a reliable source at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_reliable_source#:~:text=Wikipedia%20is%20not%20a%20reliable%20source%20for%20citations%20elsewhere%20on,progress%2C%20or%20just%20plain%20wrong.

BTW the source was not wikipedia, citations are at the bottom of the page.

Kester, D. R., Duedall, I. W., Connors, D. N. and Pytkowicz, R. M. (1967). Preparation of Artificial Seawater Archived 2008-12-17 at the Wayback Machine. Limnology & Oceanography 12, 176–179.
Goldman, J. C. and McCarthy, J. J. (1978). Steady-state growth and ammonium uptake of a fast-growing marine diatom Archived 2008-12-17 at the Wayback Machine. Limnology & Oceanography 23, 695–703.
"Standard Practice for the Preparation of Substitute Ocean Water". ASTM International. Retrieved 16 June 2014.
""Artificial Seawater" ASTM D1141-98 Lake Products Company LLC".
"Preparation of Substitute Ocean Water". G2MT Labs. 2018-11-08. Retrieved 10 November 2018.

Here's another source

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3847730/

...all steady state comparative bioavailability studies in humans have shown no differences between synthetic and natural vitamin C, regardless of the subject population, study design or intervention used. Some pharmacokinetic studies in humans have shown transient and small comparative differences between synthetic and natural vitamin C, although these differences are likely to have minimal physiological impact.