Is classism/snobbery alive in Ireland?

Walking_Wolf

Is classism/snobbery alive and well in Ireland? I rented a place in a well off part of Dublin for a few years. I'm a plumber by trade and had my Hiace van parked outside. One of my neighbours, I think she and her husband were retired civil servants, she used to complain about me bringing down the tone of the place with the van. She and her husband would have been in their sixties and on first meeting them you would think they were quite timid, but they were obnoxious snobs. They were both originally from the country though, I have to say I've never met a real dub who was a snob. Does anyone have similar stories or do you think in general that classism or snobbery still exists in Ireland?

Ubbquittious

Yep still around without a doubt. It was always there and probably always will be

jetfiremuck

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Yep still around without a doubt. It was always there and probably always will be

A lot of them are Beggars on horseback.

Duckworth_Luas

Walking_Wolf wrote: »

I have to say I've never met a real dub who was a snob.

You mustn't have met many Dubliners then. The place is riddled with snobbery. From what school you went to, to your feckin post code.

Tony EH

Never went away. Not for a single second.

The biggest ism anyone will ever face these days is classism. You'll be judged (wholly unfairly) faster for your perceived "class" than anything else and it's still very much alive and well in Ireland.

y0ssar1an22

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

You mustn't have met many Dubliners then. The place is riddled with snobbery. From what school you went to, to your feckin post code.

you a posh cricket fan? :pac:

a lot of people are snobby for some reason. anything people dont like, they look down upon.

could be the sport you follow.
where you live.
what school.
anything.

the biggest culchie in the world will still laugh at cricket with a snobby attitude.

utd/liverpool fans have a great attitude towards city fans. look at the football thread for the snobbery there cos they dont have as many fans.

snobs are in every part of society.

to answer your question, yes it is still alive and kicking. and your neighbors are snobs as well.

pappyodaniel

It's always been there. Come to think of it back in my school days we used to take the absolute p!ss out of the country lads slagging them for being farmers and stinking of cow sh!te. Little did we know they were slagging us off for having no land and for living on top of one another in council houses. Everyone stereotypes and judges one another.

the immortals

Depends on what part of the city you're in, mostly I'd say no but there are a lot of peasants around certain area's

Kaybaykwah

What’s the fun of living anywhere if you can’t partake in, or bear the brunt of a little snobbery?

Purple is a Fruit

Nowhere near as bad as England but people here do feel they have to put someone else's address on job applications and the like.

Floppybits

Always has been, probably Always will be. Then there is the look at them who do they think are if people are looking to better themselves.

whisky_galore

I dont know why this comes as a surprise to anyone. Did you think we were some sort of egalitarian workers' paradise comrade?

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

I dont know why this comes as a surprise to anyone. Did you think we were some sort of egalitarian workers' paradise comrade?

You would think that after we went through the various booms and busts and as Ireland becomes more of a meritocracy that people would be 'over' the old petty snobbishness. The GAA thriving in South Dublin is for me the new classless vision I would want for Ireland.

Fils

There is a lot of fur coat around also. People with their pcp suv, not a pot to p1ss in.

whisky_galore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You would think that after we went through the various booms and busts and as Ireland becomes more of a meritocracy that people would be 'over' the old petty snobbishness. The GAA thriving in South Dublin is for me the new classless vision I would want for Ireland.

That might be true if everyone suffered equally in the busts, which plainly is never the case.

Yes, OP. Yes it is. And so is inverted classism/snobbery, which is just as stupid and pompous as any prejudice, but has one thing going for it --it's kicking up.

Badly Drunk Boy

Deleted User wrote: »

You would think that after we went through the various booms and busts and as Ireland becomes more of a meritocracy that people would be 'over' the old petty snobbishness. The GAA thriving in South Dublin is for me the new classless vision I would want for Ireland.

Would that be in anyway related to the money that has been pumped into Dublin GAA, resulting in their record-breaking run of All-Ireland wins? It may be classless in one sense but it's definitely not egalitarian.

sprucemoose

Deleted User wrote: »

The GAA thriving in South Dublin is for me the new classless vision I would want for Ireland.

god id hope not

Dubmany

Walking_Wolf wrote: »

Is classism/snobbery alive and well in Ireland? I rented a place in a well off part of Dublin for a few years. I'm a plumber by trade and had my Hiace van parked outside. One of my neighbours, I think she and her husband were retired civil servants, she used to complain about me bringing down the tone of the place with the van. She and her husband would have been in their sixties and on first meeting them you would think they were quite timid, but they were obnoxious snobs.

Of course snobbery and classism is alive in Ireland and always will be; it's an unpleasant aspect of human nature, and some people are better at hiding it than others.

They were both originally from the country though, I have to say I've never met a real dub who was a snob. Does anyone have similar stories or do you think in general that classism or snobbery still exists in Ireland?

Ironically, there's always something a bit snobby about the generalisation "from the country" when applied to someone from another smaller town or city, or to someone of unknown origin.

Mr. teddywinkles

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You would think that after we went through the various booms and busts and as Ireland becomes more of a meritocracy that people would be 'over' the old petty snobbishness. The GAA thriving in South Dublin is for me the new classless vision I would want for Ireland.

Good jobs got through the GAA. Nepotism if yer brave enough to say it. Which I am

beerguts

I don't think you will find any nation 9n earth where there isn't classism or snobbery. Whether you are old money in new england USA or a Parisian looking down on French men from the provinces it's part and parcel of life.
I for one would never associate with the common muck in the next parish over from me as most of the farmers have Zetors and I am a Massey ferguson man.

mohawk

It’s definitely a part of human nature and some places it’s more obvious then others.
I also don’t think it’s always the better offs looking down at the less well off because I think sometimes they have a ‘who do they think they are’ attitude towards people they perceive to have more then them.

Way I see it is so much of life is luck. Where you were born and what kind of family you were born to massively shapes your life and your outlook.

You only have to open any thread that mentions social housing on this forum, to see that classism and snobbery is alive and well in Ireland.

Church on Tuesday

It's a lot worse in England.

the_pen_turner

There 8s a lot of snobbery around from what I call the bucket class (as in hyacenth bucket).
They are from normal every day families but are trying to be the class above them but they dont have the wealth, land, businesses etc.


You especially see this working in the trades. A lot of people look down on people working with their hands for a living.
I had one woman tell me that they should have another queue in shops and banks etc for people with important jobs that have better things to be doing
She was a receptionist in a school

Church on Tuesday

the_pen_turner wrote: »

There 8s a lot of snobbery around from what I call the bucket class (as in hyacenth bucket).
They are from normal every day families but are trying to be the class above them but they dont have the wealth, land, businesses etc.


You especially see this working in the trades. A lot of people look down on people working with their hands for a living.
I had one woman tell me that they should have another queue in shops and banks etc for people with important jobs that have better things to be doing
She was a receptionist in a school

She sounds mentally unwell TBH.

mohawk

the_pen_turner wrote: »

You especially see this working in the trades. A lot of people look down on people working with their hands for a living.
I had one woman tell me that they should have another queue in shops and banks etc for people with important jobs that have better things to be doing
She was a receptionist in a school

Sounds like someone trying to better herself by putting others down.
I don’t get this whole looking down on people in trades at all. Trades are not a back up incase college doesn’t work out they are a serious career choice.
Seriously I was very grateful to the plumber when the heating broke one winter. I certainly couldn’t fix it and hadn’t a notion what exactly went wrong but I got the heating back thanks to someone else knowledge and experience.

LMC7

It's way worse in the UK.

Worked with a man who had the blood drained from his face when I "assumed" he was working class.

I suppose they have always been a wealthier country with royal lineages,aristocratic families etc so it means more than it could ever mean to us if that makes sense.

I think the Irish are more partial to notions.

Strumms

Why do people have this want to pidgeonhole themselves or others into some 'class'... whats all that about ?

Tony EH

Strumms wrote: »

Why do people have this want to pidgeonhole themselves or others into some 'class'... whats all that about ?

Privilege.

the_pen_turner

Strumms wrote: »

Why do people have this want to pidgeonhole themselves or others into some 'class'... whats all that about ?

I presume it make us feel better about ourselves if we can think we are better than others, be that morally or financially or having a fancy job

K.Flyer

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

You mustn't have met many Dubliners then. The place is riddled with snobbery. From what school you went to, to your feckin post code.

In addition to what you drive and it's reg plate..

Kaybaykwah

whisky_galore wrote: »

That might be true if everyone suffered equally in the busts, which plainly is never the case.

I met quite a few snooty Irish in the eighties, when I lived in Dublin. The boom years may have exacerbated that in those kind of folk. It's a universal thing, wherever people decide to set themselves apart as a superior kind.

Money isn't the only marker, the old structures that dictated moral propriety and social standing were just as exclusionary as the liberal capitalist ones.

iffandonlyif

Classism is a loaded term for disliking certain traits of a social group that one doesn’t belong to (often with the condition it is ‘punching down’). That seems to me perfectly reasonable (and, if not, simply part of human nature). As others have said, ‘reverse snobbery’ is just as..erm..common.

What matters is that it doesn’t lead to discrimination.

Tony EH

iffandonlyif wrote: »

Classism is a loaded term for disliking certain traits of a social group that one doesn’t belong to (often with the condition it is ‘punching down’). That seems to me perfectly reasonable (and, if not, simply part of human nature). As others have said, ‘reverse snobbery’ is just as..erm..common.

What matters is that it doesn’t lead to discrimination.

It's "discrimination" by default. There's no lead up to it.

Wanderer2010

Definitely still exists. I think the worst kind of snob is the one who was reared in a working class area and then moves into a more well heeled area and suddenly they forget everything about their roots, are almost ashamed of their family and start to pass remarks on what others in the neighbourhood wear, their cars etc and even their jobs, making it clear they consider their lot superior to others.
It only takes a few people like this in a neighbourhood to band together in their collective insecurity to suddenly campaign to keep their neighbourhood free from "undesirables". I know its very idealistic, but i dont care if someone has a cent or a million euros. We all came into this world alone and with nothing and every single one of us will leave this world alone and with nothing. If you are a sound skin, you are ok in my books. Being a snob is a complete waste of time and is my number 1 turn off in a person..

iffandonlyif

Tony EH wrote: »

It's "discrimination" by default. There's no lead up to it.

Depends on your definition of discrimination. In its most literal sense, it means to distinguish differences. The sense in which I think most people mean it is to actively treat differently.

danpatjoe

Walking_Wolf wrote: »

....she used to complain about me bringing down the tone of the place with the van....

It was obviously causing her much more stress than you. I would have enjoyed winding her up - park an old wheel-less, rust-bucket on blocks in your drive, occasionally have a few cans in your front garden, and make sure to always acknowledge her in a friendly manner - especially if she has company!

Yurt2

A lot of Irish people are raging snobs.

Interesting that the OP's experience was with retired civil servants from the country. In the 60s and 70s, it would have been a big deal for a country family to send one of the offspring up to Dublin for college and eventually on to the civil service which would have been one of the only shows in town in economically depressed Ireland. Probably from a largeish farming background or in the merchant classes in a provincial town. Such families would think their sh*t don't stink and are the original purveyors of 'notions'. The country accent would have been one of the first things to go as well as any signals that they were from the bush. They brought their peeking through the net curtains impulses with them though.

Mad_maxx

the_pen_turner wrote: »

There 8s a lot of snobbery around from what I call the bucket class (as in hyacenth bucket).
They are from normal every day families but are trying to be the class above them but they dont have the wealth, land, businesses etc.


You especially see this working in the trades. A lot of people look down on people working with their hands for a living.
I had one woman tell me that they should have another queue in shops and banks etc for people with important jobs that have better things to be doing
She was a receptionist in a school

Trades are much more respected in other countries, Germany being the obvious example

Definable a snobbish attitude towards carpenters, tilers, roofers etc in this country

Tony EH

iffandonlyif wrote: »

Depends on your definition of discrimination. In its most literal sense, it means to distinguish differences. The sense in which I think most people mean it is to actively treat differently.

It's, at it's basic level, "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people"

...which, perfectly, encapsulates your point before...

iffandonlyif wrote: »

disliking certain traits of a social group that one doesn’t belong to.

iffandonlyif

Tony EH wrote: »

It's, at it's basic level, "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people"

...which, perfectly, encapsulates your point before...

‘...treatment.’

So, no, it does not ‘encapsulate’ my point.

Mr. teddywinkles

Lets look at this from a post apocalyptic event point of view here. Do you think the guy with a trade or a nurse would be more valued than say an accountant or fund manager? The problem with lots of jobs today they're fluff. For a direct benefit to society perspective they really are either mean fook all or are a drain.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

A lot of Irish people are raging snobs.

Interesting that the OP's experience was with retired civil servants from the country. In the 60s and 70s, it would have been a big deal for a country family to send one of the offspring up to Dublin for college and eventually on to the civil service which would have been one of the only shows in town in economically depressed Ireland. Probably from a largeish farming background or in the merchant classes in a provincial town. Such families would think their sh*t don't stink and are the original purveyors of 'notions'. The country accent would have been one of the first things to go as well as any signals that they were from the bush. They brought their peeking through the net curtains impulses with them though.

Broad strokes there, Yurt. All a little bit arch tbh.

con___manx1

Some golf clubs are full of snobs. Some rich folk just join certain clubs because its a form of status for them.
The membership cost for some of these clubs are crazy.

I’m sure it exists but I’ve never really experienced it. Definitely not from north side dubs, or country people, despite what’s been said here. I don’t meet that many southsiders but the ones I have met were fine.

How many civil servants are snobs anyway? Maybe that was true in the 60s but it’s just a job now.

Yyhhuuu

Walking_Wolf wrote: »

Is classism/snobbery alive and well in Ireland? I rented a place in a well off part of Dublin for a few years. I'm a plumber by trade and had my Hiace van parked outside. One of my neighbours, I think she and her husband were retired civil servants, she used to complain about me bringing down the tone of the place with the van. She and her husband would have been in their sixties and on first meeting them you would think they were quite timid, but they were obnoxious snobs. They were both originally from the country though, I have to say I've never met a real dub who was a snob. Does anyone have similar stories or do you think in general that classism or snobbery still exists in Ireland?

" never met a real dub who was a snob" . what a gross generalisation. I know plenty of them.

dd973

There's definitely a thing here of looking at people and making (usually ridiculous) assumptions about them, if you're curious about someone just grow a pair and f**king walk up to them and speak to them otherwise keep your thoughts to yourself.

As regards classism there's also an appearance based idea of what a middle class person looks like, if you look like Ryan Tubridy or Brian O'Driscoll you'll have a far easier time of it than you would if perceived as looking working class.

Yyhhuuu

Tony EH wrote: »

Never went away. Not for a single second.

The biggest ism anyone will ever face these days is classism. You'll be judged (wholly unfairly) faster for your perceived "class" than anything else and it's still very much alive and well in Ireland.

How do you tell a person's class in Ireland?. I find it a very interesting topic. Traditionally I suppose it was their occupation. Their address perhaps, their occupation or educational attainment. Whether they live off investments like the upper classes in UK or rely on a job. Their speaking voice ( especially in Dublin). BTW I found SOME social climbers insufferable. My family came from a professional background going back several generations which is I suppose unusual in Ireland. My mother's family had money but behaved in a very ordinary down-to-earth manner as I suppose they felt they had nothing to prove. People make assumptions about others all the time and judge the book by the cover.

StupidLikeAFox

Its always there to a certain extent but its getting better. In my fathers generation there was basically no option to go to college unless you were from a certain class, some people went to the Christian brothers and then college and a degree set you up for life. Others went to the tech and got a trade and finished school at 13. A solicitor, doctor, teacher, civil servant, banker etc were prestigious positions for a select few

Now anybody can be anything they want if they put their mind to it, and people are far more accepting of others for the most part. I know of a solicitor and a doctor who both grew up in council estates - unthinkable a few decades ago. Snobbery is mostly in peoples heads rather than an institutionalised class system - which doesn't make it any better, but its much better than it was

Atlantic Dawn

I've not met once person who I know is 100% minted who was a snob, met plenty of borrowed money people who thought they were snobs.