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ESRI wants to turn us into communist East Germany

  • 03-06-2021 1:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    After their brilliant suggestion last week that we should pay more "progressive taxes"...translated as "let's make the private sector poorer (through tax rises) so the public sector can get richer (through pay rises)... the ESRI have come up with another gem.



    They want us to borrow up to €7bn a year so the State can hoover up pretty much every single new home built in the country over the next decade, either as a direct build or a lease. As for first time buyers, forget it. You will never compete with the daddy taxpayer.



    Are we trying to turn ourselves into Communist East Germany, where everyone lived in State housing? Can you imagine suggesting to the UK or USA that the government should take every single new home in the country. They would laugh you out of the room. It's pathetic and infantile.



    We built 90,000 homes a year in 2006 with minimal State involvement. What needs to happen is we need severe curbs on planning objectors, much more high density, and a strict state limit of 10% on new estates. Remove the planning powers of local councils. Private capital would take care of the rest.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭ timmyntc


    Calm down.
    The ESRI suggested borrowing now when interest rates are at 0% to finance house building. We are not turning into a communist state where the government owns all.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    We built 90,000 homes a year in 2006 with minimal State involvement.
    yeah, and half those houses were probably built in the wrong place or built to shoddy standards.
    talking about what we achieved during one of the most dysfunctional periods of the irish economy in living memory, is not exactly a point untainted by massive caveats.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭ Allinall


    Who's going to build all the houses, and at what cost, if the state doesn't?

    Who's going to be able to afford them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭ Jerry Attrick


    Allinall wrote: »

    Who's going to build all the houses, and at what cost, if the state doesn't?

    Who's going to be able to afford them?

    Of course, as the State isn't a building firm, it will get the private sector to build them.

    And, in all probability, the private sector will charge the State more to build them than they would if they were building the same houses privately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭ francois


    Are we trying to turn ourselves into Communist East Germany


    Eh, no


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,428 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you


  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Calm down.
    The ESRI suggested borrowing now when interest rates are at 0% to finance house building. We are not turning into a communist state where the government owns all.


    We are turning ouselves into a communist state where the government owns or leases all NEW housing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ wpd


    One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you

    Its happening baby!! not far off now and our migrant population are spreading the word globally


  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you


    Except that is indeed the direction of travel, so you've proved my point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,428 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    wpd wrote: »
    Its happening baby!! not far off now and our migrant population are spreading the word globally

    oh yeah there'll also be no white people left in this dystopia


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,629 ✭✭✭✭ snoopsheep


    Fred cry a ton


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,428 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    Except that is indeed the direction of travel, so you've proved my point.

    Sign me up, and thanks for paying for the rest of us Fred


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,133 ✭✭✭✭ jimgoose


    Where dem big-titty white women at??


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,003 ✭✭✭ The_Dazzler


    After their brilliant suggestion last week that we should pay more "progressive taxes"...translated as "let's make the private sector poorer (through tax rises) so the public sector can get richer (through pay rises)... the ESRI have come up with another gem.



    They want us to borrow up to €7bn a year so the State can hoover up pretty much every single new home built in the country over the next decade, either as a direct build or a lease. As for first time buyers, forget it. You will never compete with the daddy taxpayer.



    Are we trying to turn ourselves into Communist East Germany, where everyone lived in State housing? Can you imagine suggesting to the UK or USA that the government should take every single new home in the country. They would laugh you out of the room. It's pathetic and infantile.



    We built 90,000 homes a year in 2006 with minimal State involvement. What needs to happen is we need severe curbs on planning objectors, much more high density, and a strict state limit of 10% on new estates. Remove the planning powers of local councils. Private capital would take care of the rest.

    You have a serious axe to grind with nurses and HCAs. Don't you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭ TP_CM


    What's going on with the thread titles today?

    "Dáil vote to turn Ireland into a permanent police state"

    "ESRI wants to turn us into communist East Germany"

    There's less clickbait on the Daily Mail for God sake.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,296 ✭✭✭ DubInMeath


    TP_CM wrote: »
    What's going on with the thread titles today?

    "Dáil vote to turn Ireland into a permanent police state"

    "ESRI wants to turn us into communist East Germany"

    There's less clickbait on the Daily Mail for God sake.

    Care in the community isn't working out for some?


  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ wpd


    oh yeah there'll also be no white people left in this dystopia

    most migrants are white in Ireland


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you

    Considering the birth rate gap between the welfare class and the middle class , your dystopian future is only a few generations off


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ Pa ElGrande


    File this under "come on in, the debt is lovely."

    Interesting. I went looking for the report published on ESRI website and get access denied, however it can still be found on the wayback machine.






    The argument seems to be that the individual borrower can't access debt at this cheap rate and while the vulture funds can borrow cheaply to buy up housing stock then so can the Irish state.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,611 ✭✭✭ Jinglejangle69


    FF have brought forward a motion to enshrine the right to housing in the constitution!!!

    Sorry Fred!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,706 ✭✭✭ xieann


    One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you

    Fred will also be paying his TV licence while the rest of us have it waived.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,332 ✭✭✭ Charles Babbage


    Does the OP realise that most housing in Singapore, a distinctly non communist place, is built by the government?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,611 ✭✭✭ Jinglejangle69


    Does the OP realise that most housing in Singapore, a distinctly non communist place, is built by the government?

    Yeah Singapore is completely different.

    What a ridiculous comparison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,332 ✭✭✭ Charles Babbage


    Yeah Singapore is completely different.

    What a ridiculous comparison.

    It isn't as different as East Germany.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭ Gradius


    If you have a tap running water into a sink and that sink is overflowing, would you keep trying to replace the sink?

    Building more houses won't make any difference. None, zero, zippity do dah.

    If 1 million extra homes magically appeared tomorrow, they'd be full to bursting within a couple years again. This "build more homes" is one big fat myth, been going on for years now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ RulesOfNature


    Gradius wrote: »
    If you have a tap running water into a sink and that sink is overflowing, would you keep trying to replace the sink?

    Building more houses won't make any difference. None, zero, zippity do dah.

    If 1 million extra homes magically appeared tomorrow, they'd be full to bursting within a couple years again. This "build more homes" is one big fat myth, been going on for years now.

    In the principles of market economy Demand is indeed much more consequential than Supply. So yes, just building houses wont be a solution. But the alternative is to lessen the demand for migrants to move into Ireland - which essentially entails undoing the past 70 years or so of progress and turning back into a repressed Catholic backwater.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭ Gradius


    In the principles of market economy Demand is indeed much more consequential than Supply. So yes, just building houses wont be a solution. But the alternative is to lessen the demand for migrants to move into Ireland - which essentially entails undoing the past 70 years or so of progress and turning back into a repressed Catholic backwater.

    Well it's one disaster or another then.

    Anecdotally, a friend told me today that he has no gp anymore. Apparently, you get taken off a doctor's register if you haven't been there in 5 years. News to me, if true.

    So he rang 7 different doctors today and not one of them had space. He was told there might be space in a couple months.

    If true, then that's yet another example of "do we really need more doctors, or actually less people?"

    Pyramid schemes. This country has been run into the ground with essentially no forethought or planning, just "more! More will fix everything despite it never working."

    It's either going to break uncontrollably, or it's a controlled demolition. The lesser of two evils is what's needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    Of course, as the State isn't a building firm, it will get the private sector to build them.

    And, in all probability, the private sector will charge the State more to build them than they would if they were building the same houses privately.

    yes but officially and more importantly , ideologically , its the state who will have " built these homes "


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