ESRI wants to turn us into communist East Germany

Fred Cryton · 03-06-2021 2:25pm #1

After their brilliant suggestion last week that we should pay more "progressive taxes"...translated as "let's make the private sector poorer (through tax rises) so the public sector can get richer (through pay rises)... the ESRI have come up with another gem.

They want us to borrow up to €7bn a year so the State can hoover up pretty much every single new home built in the country over the next decade, either as a direct build or a lease. As for first time buyers, forget it. You will never compete with the daddy taxpayer.

Are we trying to turn ourselves into Communist East Germany, where everyone lived in State housing? Can you imagine suggesting to the UK or USA that the government should take every single new home in the country. They would laugh you out of the room. It's pathetic and infantile.

We built 90,000 homes a year in 2006 with minimal State involvement. What needs to happen is we need severe curbs on planning objectors, much more high density, and a strict state limit of 10% on new estates. Remove the planning powers of local councils. Private capital would take care of the rest.

timmyntc · 03-06-2021 2:29pm

Calm down.
The ESRI suggested borrowing now when interest rates are at 0% to finance house building. We are not turning into a communist state where the government owns all.

magicbastarder · 03-06-2021 2:30pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

We built 90,000 homes a year in 2006 with minimal State involvement.

yeah, and half those houses were probably built in the wrong place or built to shoddy standards.
talking about what we achieved during one of the most dysfunctional periods of the irish economy in living memory, is not exactly a point untainted by massive caveats.

Allinall · 03-06-2021 2:33pm

Who's going to build all the houses, and at what cost, if the state doesn't?

Who's going to be able to afford them?

Jerry Attrick · 03-06-2021 2:37pm

Allinall wrote: »

Who's going to build all the houses, and at what cost, if the state doesn't?

Who's going to be able to afford them?

Of course, as the State isn't a building firm, it will get the private sector to build them.

And, in all probability, the private sector will charge the State more to build them than they would if they were building the same houses privately.

francois · 03-06-2021 2:41pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Are we trying to turn ourselves into Communist East Germany

Eh, no

Thelonious Monk · 03-06-2021 2:42pm

One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you

Fred Cryton · 03-06-2021 2:42pm

timmyntc wrote: »

Calm down.
The ESRI suggested borrowing now when interest rates are at 0% to finance house building. We are not turning into a communist state where the government owns all.

We are turning ouselves into a communist state where the government owns or leases all NEW housing.

wpd · 03-06-2021 2:44pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you

Its happening baby!! not far off now and our migrant population are spreading the word globally

Fred Cryton · 03-06-2021 2:44pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you

Except that is indeed the direction of travel, so you've proved my point.

Thelonious Monk · 03-06-2021 2:44pm

wpd wrote: »

Its happening baby!! not far off now and our migrant population are spreading the word globally

oh yeah there'll also be no white people left in this dystopia

[Deleted User] · 03-06-2021 2:44pm

Fred cry a ton

Thelonious Monk · 03-06-2021 2:45pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Except that is indeed the direction of travel, so you've proved my point.

Sign me up, and thanks for paying for the rest of us Fred

jimgoose · 03-06-2021 2:47pm

Where dem big-titty white women at??

[Deleted User] · 03-06-2021 2:48pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

After their brilliant suggestion last week that we should pay more "progressive taxes"...translated as "let's make the private sector poorer (through tax rises) so the public sector can get richer (through pay rises)... the ESRI have come up with another gem.

They want us to borrow up to €7bn a year so the State can hoover up pretty much every single new home built in the country over the next decade, either as a direct build or a lease. As for first time buyers, forget it. You will never compete with the daddy taxpayer.

Are we trying to turn ourselves into Communist East Germany, where everyone lived in State housing? Can you imagine suggesting to the UK or USA that the government should take every single new home in the country. They would laugh you out of the room. It's pathetic and infantile.

We built 90,000 homes a year in 2006 with minimal State involvement. What needs to happen is we need severe curbs on planning objectors, much more high density, and a strict state limit of 10% on new estates. Remove the planning powers of local councils. Private capital would take care of the rest.

You have a serious axe to grind with nurses and HCAs. Don't you?

TP_CM · 03-06-2021 2:52pm

What's going on with the thread titles today?

"Dáil vote to turn Ireland into a permanent police state"

"ESRI wants to turn us into communist East Germany"

There's less clickbait on the Daily Mail for God sake.

[Deleted User] · 03-06-2021 4:42pm

TP_CM wrote: »

What's going on with the thread titles today?

"Dáil vote to turn Ireland into a permanent police state"

"ESRI wants to turn us into communist East Germany"

There's less clickbait on the Daily Mail for God sake.

Care in the community isn't working out for some?

wpd · 03-06-2021 4:47pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

oh yeah there'll also be no white people left in this dystopia

most migrants are white in Ireland

Eric Cartman · 05-06-2021 4:26am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you

Considering the birth rate gap between the welfare class and the middle class , your dystopian future is only a few generations off

Pa ElGrande · 05-06-2021 10:19am

File this under "come on in, the debt is lovely."

Interesting. I went looking for the report published on ESRI website and get access denied, however it can still be found on the wayback machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-xEOvfNTRc

The argument seems to be that the individual borrower can't access debt at this cheap rate and while the vulture funds can borrow cheaply to buy up housing stock then so can the Irish state.

Jinglejangle69 · 05-06-2021 10:23am

FF have brought forward a motion to enshrine the right to housing in the constitution!!!

Sorry Fred!!

[Deleted User] · 05-06-2021 10:26am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

One day Fred you're going to wake up and be the only hard working car driving road tax paying person left in Ireland, while the rest of us wear our pajamas 24/7 and live in luxury apartments paid for by you

Fred will also be paying his TV licence while the rest of us have it waived.

Charles Babbage · 05-06-2021 10:34am

Does the OP realise that most housing in Singapore, a distinctly non communist place, is built by the government?

Jinglejangle69 · 05-06-2021 10:45am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Does the OP realise that most housing in Singapore, a distinctly non communist place, is built by the government?

Yeah Singapore is completely different.

What a ridiculous comparison.

Charles Babbage · 05-06-2021 10:47am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yeah Singapore is completely different.

What a ridiculous comparison.

It isn't as different as East Germany.

Gradius · 05-06-2021 4:04pm

If you have a tap running water into a sink and that sink is overflowing, would you keep trying to replace the sink?

Building more houses won't make any difference. None, zero, zippity do dah.

If 1 million extra homes magically appeared tomorrow, they'd be full to bursting within a couple years again. This "build more homes" is one big fat myth, been going on for years now.

RulesOfNature · 05-06-2021 4:18pm

Gradius wrote: »

If you have a tap running water into a sink and that sink is overflowing, would you keep trying to replace the sink?

Building more houses won't make any difference. None, zero, zippity do dah.

If 1 million extra homes magically appeared tomorrow, they'd be full to bursting within a couple years again. This "build more homes" is one big fat myth, been going on for years now.

In the principles of market economy Demand is indeed much more consequential than Supply. So yes, just building houses wont be a solution. But the alternative is to lessen the demand for migrants to move into Ireland - which essentially entails undoing the past 70 years or so of progress and turning back into a repressed Catholic backwater.

Gradius · 05-06-2021 4:27pm

RulesOfNature wrote: »

In the principles of market economy Demand is indeed much more consequential than Supply. So yes, just building houses wont be a solution. But the alternative is to lessen the demand for migrants to move into Ireland - which essentially entails undoing the past 70 years or so of progress and turning back into a repressed Catholic backwater.

Well it's one disaster or another then.

Anecdotally, a friend told me today that he has no gp anymore. Apparently, you get taken off a doctor's register if you haven't been there in 5 years. News to me, if true.

So he rang 7 different doctors today and not one of them had space. He was told there might be space in a couple months.

If true, then that's yet another example of "do we really need more doctors, or actually less people?"

Pyramid schemes. This country has been run into the ground with essentially no forethought or planning, just "more! More will fix everything despite it never working."

It's either going to break uncontrollably, or it's a controlled demolition. The lesser of two evils is what's needed.

Mad_maxx · 05-06-2021 8:07pm

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Of course, as the State isn't a building firm, it will get the private sector to build them.

And, in all probability, the private sector will charge the State more to build them than they would if they were building the same houses privately.

yes but officially and more importantly , ideologically , its the state who will have " built these homes "

ESRI wants to turn us into communist East Germany

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