Disability Allowance Means Test (Self-Employed)

Snow_White1987

Hi all,

Am hoping someone can help.

I've just received a generic 'your DA claim is being subject to review' form in which they want to assess my income (again) to see if I still qualify.

I have Cerebral Palsy so my disability is going nowhere and this is the second time quite recently that it's been reviewed (my income and condition were assessed already not too long ago so this new form makes me anxious!).

Anyhow, I'm going to send them 3 months worth of bank statements as they've asked but I'm self-employed so don't have any wage slips to send. My income can be sporadic at best and I earn different amounts every month which they know from my last review as I informed them of this.

Could I submit my tax payment receipt from 2019 do you think?

It's no good sending invoices as in some cases they haven't been paid or our 90 days behind so what I get doesn't match up month-to-month.

The DA is a life-saver so I don't want anything to jeopardise my payment, are there any other self-employed on the DA as I am?

Dempo1

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Hi all,

Am hoping someone can help.

I've just received a generic 'your DA claim is being subject to review' form in which they want to assess my income (again) to see if I still qualify.

I have Cerebral Palsy so my disability is going nowhere and this is the second time quite recently that it's been reviewed (my income and condition were assessed already not too long ago so this new form makes me anxious!).

Anyhow, I'm going to send them 3 months worth of bank statements as they've asked but I'm self-employed so don't have any wage slips to send. My income can be sporadic at best and I earn different amounts every month which they know from my last review as I informed them of this.

Could I submit my tax payment receipt from 2019 do you think?

It's no good sending invoices as in some cases they haven't been paid or our 90 days behind so what I get doesn't match up month-to-month.

The DA is a life-saver so I don't want anything to jeopardise my payment, are there any other self-employed on the DA as I am?

Hi there, hope your well albeit looking a little anxious. I can't claim to know much about disability benefits so won't pretend too, I just wondered should you not actually be entitled to an invalidity pension given your defined illness, I am sure this allows you earn a certain amount without affecting your payment. I understood DA is only for 2 years, needing a re application, similar to DB, forgive me if I'm incorrect.

I'm guessing because your registered self employed, this is why an income review is being done but it does seem unusual given, as you say its been done already and recently. Are you on PUP also? Being self employed? Perhaps this is the issue re earnings threshold? It's rare to see a self employed person on DA.

I'm hoping someone more familiar with DA will offer some guidence but I just felt it worth mentioning invalidity pension, more so because I feel you'd be entitled, it's a more long term payment without the stress of these reviews and I believe your permitted to earn up to a certain amount which I believe you wish to to.

Admitidly invalidity pension very tough to get but there's ample supports to advise and assist.

Keep positive and good luck

Howcanyou

Dempo1 wrote: »

Hi there, hope your well albeit looking a little anxious. I can't claim to know much about disability benefits so won't pretend too, I just wondered should you not actually be entitled to an invalidity pension given your defined illness, I am sure this allows you earn a certain amount without affecting your payment. I understood DA is only for 2 years, needing a re application, similar to DB, forgive me if I'm incorrect.

I'm guessing because your registered self employed, this is why an income review is being done but it does seem unusual given, as you say its been done already and recently. Are you on PUP also? Being self employed? Perhaps this is the issue re earnings threshold? It's rare to see a self employed person on DA.

I'm hoping someone more familiar with DA will offer some guidence but I just felt it worth mentioning invalidity pension, more so because I feel you'd be entitled, it's a more long term payment without the stress of these reviews and I believe your permitted to earn up to a certain amount which I believe you wish to to.

Admitidly invalidity pension very tough to get but there's ample supports to advise and assist.

Keep positive and good luck

Hi, I wouldn’t be an expert on DA or DB either but my husband is in receipt of invalidity pension and in order to qualify you need 260 PRSI contributions plus some of them have to be paid in a certain time frame. You also need to be either so sick that you are unable to work for life or been sick for the last 12 months and highly likely to be unable to work for a further 12 months or something like that.

Most people are on illness benefit for about 2 years and only apply for invalidity pension before their illness benefit is due to run out.

For personal experience and talking to people that worked in social welfare/ citizens information you really need to show that you are incapable to do any type of work.

The forms sent by dept of social welfare look quiet simple but you want to put in a good letter from yourself outlining how your condition affects your daily life and your capability to work. You basically have to say that you are unable to do hardly anything.

OP says that he is self employed at present so that on its own would result in an immediate refusal of IP as he is still working so clearly capable to work (to some degree at least).

Dempo1

Howcanyou wrote: »

Hi, I wouldn’t be an expert on DA or DB either but my husband is in receipt of invalidity pension and in order to qualify you need 260 PRSI contributions plus some of them have to be paid in a certain time frame. You also need to be either so sick that you are unable to work for life or been sick for the last 12 months and highly likely to be unable to work for a further 12 months or something like that.

Most people are on illness benefit for about 2 years and only apply for invalidity pension before their illness benefit is due to run out.

For personal experience and talking to people that worked in social welfare/ citizens information you really need to show that you are incapable to do any type of work.

The forms sent by dept of social welfare look quiet simple but you want to put in a good letter from yourself outlining how your condition affects your daily life and your capability to work. You basically have to say that you are unable to do hardly anything.

OP says that he is self employed at present so that on its own would result in an immediate refusal of IP as he is still working so clearly capable to work (to some degree at least).

Thanks for that insight as I honestly don't know much about illness benefits, I thought IP would be extremely difficult to get and wasn't aware of the contributions required. Just seems a very stressful process with reviews albeit I appreciate SW have to be diligent etc, just hope OP gets issue resolved satisfactorily. Thanks again

Howcanyou

Dempo1 wrote: »

Thanks for that insight as I honestly don't know much about illness benefits, I thought IP would be extremely difficult to get and wasn't aware of the contributions required. Just seems a very stressful process with reviews albeit I appreciate SW have to be diligent etc, just hope OP gets issue resolved satisfactorily. Thanks again

For IP they turn down pretty much every application at first unless you literally have no limbs or something equally severe. Most people get it on appeal as did my husband but as I said the main thing is that you can not work as you will be turned down even if you work a few hours per week.

Once you get it there is something called partial capacity benefit which allows people with long term Inness to go back to training/ employment of some sort but my husband is not able to do any of it so we haven’t looked at it in much detail.

If OP has enough PRSI contributions IP is something that they might potentially be eligible for but they definitely cant work in any sort of a job while trying to get it.

Snow_White1987

Dempo1 wrote: »

Hi there, hope your well albeit looking a little anxious. I can't claim to know much about disability benefits so won't pretend too, I just wondered should you not actually be entitled to an invalidity pension given your defined illness, I am sure this allows you earn a certain amount without affecting your payment. I understood DA is only for 2 years, needing a re application, similar to DB, forgive me if I'm incorrect.

I'm guessing because your registered self employed, this is why an income review is being done but it does seem unusual given, as you say its been done already and recently. Are you on PUP also? Being self employed? Perhaps this is the issue re earnings threshold? It's rare to see a self employed person on DA.

I'm hoping someone more familiar with DA will offer some guidence but I just felt it worth mentioning invalidity pension, more so because I feel you'd be entitled, it's a more long term payment without the stress of these reviews and I believe your permitted to earn up to a certain amount which I believe you wish to to.

Admitidly invalidity pension very tough to get but there's ample supports to advise and assist.

Keep positive and good luck

Thank you so much for the reply!

I was on PUP for a few months but have been off it since the end of February as work started to trickle in.

They actually mentioned IP in the last review but I wasn't a candidate given that I'd rather be out trying to earn something – the DA while brilliant is so small (I don't get the full amount as it is) that you couldn't live off it!

I actually looked back and my last review was almost two years ago – I thought it was only last year! – so I presume I'm getting called up due to the timeframe of the two-year mark which eases my anxiety a little.

It just annoys me because the minuscule amount I get given that my disability is permanent – they make out like you're trying to scam the system! I work when I can, pay taxes each year and the DA is a buffer that makes my already difficult life a bit easier. They seem to target the wrong people.

I claim nothing else off the Government and even had my medical card taken off me – despite the CP!

These reviews stress me out so much because while I might be able to work for a month or two, the nature of the CP means that I might not have the energy to work for weeks and the DA would be a buffer.

I agree it's unusual given that I'm self-employed but at the last review they said that was fine – I explained that it was the easiest way for me to try to earn based on my condition and agreed that I couldn't submit a fresh review every month if earnings changed as DA can take weeks to get back to you for a single change.

I think I'll include a letter with my application explaining my situation in full which may help.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to say as well, you can be on DA and still claim PUP (they said initially at least that your DA would be unaffected by the PUP, presumably as you can still work while on it).

Snow_White1987

Howcanyou wrote: »

Hi, I wouldn’t be an expert on DA or DB either but my husband is in receipt of invalidity pension and in order to qualify you need 260 PRSI contributions plus some of them have to be paid in a certain time frame. You also need to be either so sick that you are unable to work for life or been sick for the last 12 months and highly likely to be unable to work for a further 12 months or something like that.

Most people are on illness benefit for about 2 years and only apply for invalidity pension before their illness benefit is due to run out.

For personal experience and talking to people that worked in social welfare/ citizens information you really need to show that you are incapable to do any type of work.

The forms sent by dept of social welfare look quiet simple but you want to put in a good letter from yourself outlining how your condition affects your daily life and your capability to work. You basically have to say that you are unable to do hardly anything.

OP says that he is self employed at present so that on its own would result in an immediate refusal of IP as he is still working so clearly capable to work (to some degree at least).

Thank you so much! The reason the DA is the most appropriate is that it's a payment you can work on – and I can work to some degree even though the CP makes it difficult at times. At my last review, they agreed I likely wouldn't be a candidate for IP at this point.

The tip about the letter is brilliant – I actually noticed there was no space to write anything about your condition likely because they are looking at means but I still think the context of the disability in my case is so important, especially as I'm self-employed – I'll definitely include one!

Dempo1

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Thank you so much for the reply!

I was on PUP for a few months but have been off it since the end of February as work started to trickle in.

They actually mentioned IP in the last review but I wasn't a candidate given that I'd rather be out trying to earn something – the DA while brilliant is so small (I don't get the full amount as it is) that you couldn't live off it!

I actually looked back and my last review was almost two years ago – I thought it was only last year! – so I presume I'm getting called up due to the timeframe of the two-year mark which eases my anxiety a little.

It just annoys me because the minuscule amount I get given that my disability is permanent – they make out like you're trying to scam the system! I work when I can, pay taxes each year and the DA is a buffer that makes my already difficult life a bit easier. They seem to target the wrong people.

I claim nothing else off the Government and even had my medical card taken off me – despite the CP!

These reviews stress me out so much because while I might be able to work for a month or two, the nature of the CP means that I might not have the energy to work for weeks and the DA would be a buffer.

I agree it's unusual given that I'm self-employed but at the last review they said that was fine – I explained that it was the easiest way for me to try to earn based on my condition and agreed that I couldn't submit a fresh review every month if earnings changed as DA can take weeks to get back to you for a single change.

I think I'll include a letter with my application explaining my situation in full which may help.

I have to say your quite amazing and I have so much respect for you, I recall we touched base.during the pandemic re PUP, I'd obviously no idea you have CP. Yes now I understand the review, 2 years is the norm. I have to say I'm astonished you lost your medical card, that's quite extraordinary given your challenges. As it happens I have a full medical card, I've a rare Thyroid illness known as Graves, sounds ominous I know but I'd consider your needs greater albeit I have expensive monthly meds and would be in serious trouble without the medical card, I'd certainly be appalling it's loss.

I think you will be fine re the review, you've proven your deserving, availed of PUP appropriately and show genuine determination to earn as much as possible without support (very commendable), DSP to be fair, are reasonable so don't be worrying too much

Howcanyou

Dempo1 wrote: »

I have to say your quite amazing and I have so much respect for you, I recall we touched base.during the pandemic re PUP, I'd obviously no idea you have CP. Yes now I understand the review, 2 years is the norm. I have to say I'm astonished you lost your medical card, that's quite extraordinary given your challenges. As it happens I have a full medical card, I've a rare Thyroid illness known as Graves, sounds ominous I know but I'd consider your needs greater albeit I have expensive monthly meds and would be in serious trouble without the medical card, I'd certainly be appalling it's loss.

I think you will be fine re the review, you've proven your deserving, availed of PUP appropriately and show genuine determination to earn as much as possible without support (very commendable), DSP to be fair, are reasonable so don't be worrying too much

Absolutely quiet unusual that he lost his medical card with CP. My earnings are way beyond the limits for my husband to qualify for one and he still got it way before he was approved for IP. Now I personally don’t have it and our child only has a GP visit card but that’s the norm for children under 6.

Snow_White1987

Dempo1 wrote: »

I have to say your quite amazing and I have so much respect for you, I recall we touched base.during the pandemic re PUP, I'd obviously no idea you have CP. Yes now I understand the review, 2 years is the norm. I have to say I'm astonished you lost your medical card, that's quite extraordinary given your challenges. As it happens I have a full medical card, I've a rare Thyroid illness known as Graves, sounds ominous I know but I'd consider your needs greater albeit I have expensive monthly meds and would be in serious trouble without the medical card, I'd certainly be appalling it's loss.

I think you will be fine re the review, you've proven your deserving, availed of PUP appropriately and show genuine determination to earn as much as possible without support (very commendable), DSP to be fair, are reasonable so don't be worrying too much

What a lovely reply, thank you so much!

As soon as I see a brown envelope I start to worry!

I'm even filing my tax for 2020 now so that it's all done and sorted ahead of time but being self-employed, the means-tested part of a DA review always worries me because I could get almost nothing one month and a lot the next month if payments suddenly land!

As it happens, the last 3 months I've got paid a good bit of what I was owed for work done last year (!) and this will be reflected in my bank statements so I've really no idea in terms of the income threshold if my DA allowance reflects that as it should at the moment – COVID and PUP really threw everything out of whack as well – so the anxiety is through the roof tbh.

I think I'll ring the DSP DA section tomorrow before submitting my application just to put my mind at ease (they should consider day-to-day living costs as well I was told, even given what you might earn) and hope it turns out okay!

I'll keep you updated for sure – my biggest fear is them saying I owe them something – and thank you for all the kind words and fantastic help.

Jerry Attrick

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Could I submit my tax payment receipt from 2019 do you think?

Not much point, as Social Welfare would already have access to the details of your tax payments. Furthermore, they want to know what your income is today, not what it was two years ago!

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

It just annoys me because the minuscule amount I get given that my disability is permanent – they make out like you're trying to scam the system! I work when I can, pay taxes each year and the DA is a buffer that makes my already difficult life a bit easier. They seem to target the wrong people.

Don't take it personally. The department is regularly hammered in the C&AG's Annual Reports for not carrying out enough checks on welfare recipients and DA is one of the payments that is seen as most open to abuse.

The ideal solution would be for you to be accepted for the Invalidity Pension so I urge you to apply for it.

For both payments the best advice I can give you is to set out your situation in your own words. Bear in mind that the person reading your form (and deciding whether or not to pay you) won't have you standing in front of them explaining things as they read it, so you have to try your best to paint a picture for them. i.e. spell out exactly how disabled you are by means of a daily diary that sets out what your normal working day is like. Make it easy for them to say "YES".


The Medical Card decision seems strange, but that's the HSE, not Social Welfare. Did they give you a GP card?

Snow_White1987

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Not much point, as Social Welfare would already have access to the details of your tax payments. Furthermore, they want to know what your income is today, not what it was two years ago!




Don't take it personally. The department is regularly hammered in the C&AG's Annual Reports for not carrying out enough checks on welfare recipients and DA is one of the payments that is seen as most open to abuse.

The ideal solution would be for you to be accepted for the Invalidity Pension so I urge you to apply for it.

For both payments the best advice I can give you is to set out your situation in your own words. Bear in mind that the person reading your form (and deciding whether or not to pay you) won't have you standing in front of them explaining things as they read it, so you have to try your best to paint a picture for them. i.e. spell out exactly how disabled you are by means of a daily diary that sets out what your normal working day is like. Make it easy for them to say "YES".


The Medical Card decision seems strange, but that's the HSE, not Social Welfare. Did they give you a GP card?

Thank you so much, I don't think I'm a candidate for the Invalidity Pension, because, as is my understanding, you are not able to earn anything while on it, whereas on DA, you can.

And my 2019 tax was filed less than a year ago under the remits of being self-employed but yes, they should be able to see it.

Great advice RE setting it out for them, should I do this even though the application was solely focused on my means (there's nothing mentioned about a medical condition)?

My main anxiety is that I'm self-employed – so weekly earnings are difficult to calculate as I'm honestly never sure what will land! – but given that the CP is something I'll have my whole life, I'm certainly not abusing the system! Though I know it's easy to abuse the DA system.

I'm likely just a PPSN number who got called up among many but it's so hard not to worry.

Dempo1

Howcanyou wrote: »

Absolutely quiet unusual that he lost his medical card with CP. My earnings are way beyond the limits for my husband to qualify for one and he still got it way before he was approved for IP. Now I personally don’t have it and our child only has a GP visit card but that’s the norm for children under 6.

Yes I agree it's quite a surprise, I also thought of your on any benifit, allowance, regardless of what it is, your entitled to some sort of MC, mine is a full one primarily because of meds needed monthly and 3 monthly endocrinologist visits, bloods etc, I'm very grateful to have it

Snow_White1987

Dempo1 wrote: »

Yes I agree it's quite a surprise, I also thought of your on any benifit, allowance, regardless of what it is, your entitled to some sort of MC, mine is a full one primarily because of meds needed monthly and 3 monthly endocrinologist visits, bloods etc, I'm very grateful to have it

I was disgusted – I appealed it and never heard back – and this was also mentioned during the last review.

Dempo1

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

What a lovely reply, thank you so much!

As soon as I see a brown envelope I start to worry!

I'm even filing my tax for 2020 now so that it's all done and sorted ahead of time but being self-employed, the means-tested part of a DA review always worries me because I could get almost nothing one month and a lot the next month if payments suddenly land!

As it happens, the last 3 months I've got paid a good bit of what I was owed for work done last year (!) and this will be reflected in my bank statements so I've really no idea in terms of the income threshold if my DA allowance reflects that as it should at the moment – COVID and PUP really threw everything out of whack as well – so the anxiety is through the roof tbh.

I think I'll ring the DSP DA section tomorrow before submitting my application just to put my mind at ease (they should consider day-to-day living costs as well I was told, even given what you might earn) and hope it turns out okay!

I'll keep you updated for sure – my biggest fear is them saying I owe them something – and thank you for all the kind words and fantastic help.

You'll be fine and do update us, I personally love an occasional brown envelope as long as no harp on it, take care

Snow_White1987

Dempo1 wrote: »

You'll be fine and do update us, I personally love an occasional brown envelope as long as no harp on it, take care

This one had a harp on it, hence the panic!!

Thanks so much, I will do. Say a prayer for me!

Dempo1

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

I was disgusted – I appealed it and never heard back – and this was also mentioned during the last review.

Personally I'd would not let this go, it's outrageous, I'd at the very least touch base with your local TD, honestly, I believe the Department of Health have messed up here, I'm sure your GP or your consultant etc would also be supportive

Dempo1

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

This one had a harp on it, hence the panic!!

Thanks so much, I will do. Say a prayer for me!

Will do

Jerry Attrick

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Great advice RE setting it out for them, should I do this even though the application was solely focused on my means (there's nothing mentioned about a medical condition)?

That part of my suggestion related to a possible IP application rather than to your DA means test.

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

My main anxiety is that I'm self-employed – so weekly earnings are difficult to calculate as I'm honestly never sure what will land! – but given that the CP is something I'll have my whole life, I'm certainly not abusing the system! Though I know it's easy to abuse the DA system.

Treat it as a game of tennis, hit the ball back to their side of the net and help to make their job easy. They don't want hassle either, but they have to have something from you for their file. So send them the bank statements for the year to date, add whatever narrative will help to clarify lodgements and explain as best you can what your situation is. Bear in mind that your the file will remain open on someone's desk until you've hit the ball back!

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

I'm likely just a PPSN number who got called up among many

Exactly. So give them what they want and they'll go away. And try to look at it from their perspective - they've been given a list of people to write to and they have to do what they're told or they'll get grief from their manager. That's how all the best bureaucracies work!

Snow_White1987

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

That part of my suggestion related to a possible IP application rather than to your DA means test.



Treat it as a game of tennis, hit the ball back to their side of the net and help to make their job easy. They don't want hassle either, but they have to have something from you for their file. So send them the bank statements for the year to date, add whatever narrative will help to clarify lodgements and explain as best you can what your situation is. Bear in mind that your the file will remain open on someone's desk until you've hit the ball back!



Exactly. So give them what they want and they'll go away. And try to look at it from their perspective - they've been given a list of people to write to and they have to do what they're told or they'll get grief from their manager. That's how all the best bureaucracies work!

Thank you so much, this is all so helpful.

I have statements from Feb to May this year from both my current accounts which should be enough and I will include a cover letter explaining my situation as best I can.

Fingers crossed it's all okay, the anxiety!

Cherry Blossom

There is no time limit on DA and there is no such thing as DB. Include a letter if you wish but if it is a means review there is little point. They are not questioning whether you qualify for DA or not, you have been awarded it already. They are checking if your means have changed since your last review. There is nothing you can do that will have any bearing on the outcome. They will simply recalculate how much DA you are entitled to based on any property or monies you own and your income over time from self employment. The limits for DA are really very generous and i’ve found the department very fair. I’ve no problem living off my DA combined with part-time wages. I don’t get any help with rent but I manage fine.

All you can do is send all the information they are requesting and let them do their job.

Dempo1

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

There is no time limit on DA and there is no such thing as DB. Include a letter if you wish but if it is a means review there is little point. They are not questioning whether you qualify for DA or not, you have been awarded it already. They are checking if your means have changed since your last review. There is nothing you can do that will have any bearing on the outcome. They will simply recalculate how much DA you are entitled to based on any property or monies you own and your income over time from self employment. The limits for DA are really very generous and i’ve found the department very fair. I’ve no problem living off my DA combined with part-time wages. I don’t get any help with rent but I manage fine.

All you can do is send all the information they are requesting and let them do their job.

My own knowledge on DA limited, I actually thought it was only for a defined period and had to be re applied for but thank you for the clarification, re DB, I meant illness benefit. Thanks again, info very helpful.

Snow_White1987

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

There is no time limit on DA and there is no such thing as DB. Include a letter if you wish but if it is a means review there is little point. They are not questioning whether you qualify for DA or not, you have been awarded it already. They are checking if your means have changed since your last review. There is nothing you can do that will have any bearing on the outcome. They will simply recalculate how much DA you are entitled to based on any property or monies you own and your income over time from self employment. The limits for DA are really very generous and i’ve found the department very fair. I’ve no problem living off my DA combined with part-time wages. I don’t get any help with rent but I manage fine.

All you can do is send all the information they are requesting and let them do their job.

Thanks so much, I’m aware that they are just doing their job. I simply want to make clear in my review application that some weeks I earn zero and others, chunks can land at a time (usually owed months behind) such is the nature of getting paid while working for yourself!

My part time hours are regular (and I always am aware that I can only earn x amount or it will affect my DA which I don’t want to lose) but when I get paid is not! If I earned the same each month they could easily calculate my weekly earnings as there’d be a strict pattern but alas, even if I file an invoice - it might not land for 3 months or a few could land together owed from 6 months ago as happened once!

I had a face to face review along with the needed statements the last time so it was easier to explain - I think there’s always a grey area when you’re self employed.

But I’ll submit with a note and I’d even be happy to meet an officer if required so hopefully all will be fine. They are usually very good - especially when they see cases are genuine. I’d love to be working full time and off the DA but the CP means that is sadly unlikely.

Snow_White1987

Dempo1 wrote: »

My own knowledge on DA limited, I actually thought it was only for a defined period and had to be re applied for but thank you for the clarification, re DB, I meant illness benefit. Thanks again, info very helpful.

I think your point about the assessment reviews was definitely correct though - every two years seems to be the norm.

Cherry Blossom

You can write a letter stating that your income varies. I would even send them 6 months of statements so their calculations can be more accurate. I was in a temporary job for the first 4 months of this year where I didn’t work the same hours every week. I sent a letter with my first payslip. After three months they requested two most recent payslips which has your year to date figures and they took a weekly average of what I earned. If you don’t agree with what they come back with you can appeal at that stage or ask for a review. It is more awkward if you don’t make the same money each week but as I said I’ve found them to be fair. Do you have end of year accounts you can send them a copy of?

Cherry Blossom

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

I think your point about the assessment reviews was definitely correct though - every two years seems to be the norm.

There are people on DA that haven’t had a review in decades. It’s when your circumstances keep changing that triggers reviews. I’m on my third this year due to getting a job, the job finishing, then getting another job.

Snow_White1987

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

There are people on DA that haven’t had a review in decades. It’s when your circumstances keep changing that triggers reviews. I’m on my third this year due to getting a job, the job finishing, then getting another job.

My circumstances haven’t changed though - I’ve been self-employed the last two and a half years.

I’ve also just filed my tax return for 2020 - I keep on top of everything like that. The only thing that has changed if you will is that I was on PUP for a few months (which I clarified with them before I went on it) but am no longer on it.

Looking at my notes again, I had a medical review two years ago (I was also asked to bring accounts) but a specific means test review I haven’t actually had in years so I’m probably due one anyhow.

Since my circumstances haven’t changed really since the last review (still part time, still have the CP with the same income by and large) I suppose that has triggered the worry.

And have you had reviews due to your job changing?

Snow_White1987

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

You can write a letter stating that your income varies. I would even send them 6 months of statements so their calculations can be more accurate. I was in a temporary job for the first 4 months of this year where I didn’t work the same hours every week. I sent a letter with my first payslip. After three months they requested two most recent payslips which has your year to date figures and they took a weekly average of what I earned. If you don’t agree with what they come back with you can appeal at that stage or ask for a review. It is more awkward if you don’t make the same money each week but as I said I’ve found them to be fair. Do you have end of year accounts you can send them a copy of?

It’s definitely super awkward when you don’t have payslips.

I have my letter written explaining and can send this years accounts up to May and let them work with that and see how I get on.

I can appeal but I hopefully won’t have to as they are as you said, quite fair. I don’t get the full DA as it is so I’d be delighted staying on near the same or thereabouts. After seeing the PUP, it really does annoy me how minuscule the DA is (and the hoops you have to go through to get it) but I’d never complain as it’s a lifesaver for me so I’m happy to get even a little.

Cherry Blossom

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

And have you had reviews due to your job changing?

They were triggered by me ringing up and telling them I was now working, ringing again to tell them I was no longer working and a third time to let them know I’d found another job.

It took them 3 months to start deducting money from my DA first time round and they didn’t backdate it so I didn’t have to pay back money they’d paid me while waiting to process the info. I sent. They said it was their problem it was sitting. for 3 months. When I stopped work they processed the paperwork in two weeks and paid me back money for those few weeks. I have never got the full rate of DA either but I think they appreciated my honesty. I started job number two last week and sent them more paperwork just today so we will see how long it takes this time.

Snow_White1987

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

They were triggered by me ringing up and telling them I was now working, ringing again to tell them I was no longer working and a third time to let them know I’d found another job.

It took them 3 months to start deducting money from my DA first time round and they didn’t backdate it so I didn’t have to pay back money they’d paid me while waiting to process the info. I sent. They said it was their problem it was sitting. for 3 months. When I stopped work they processed the paperwork in two weeks and paid me back money for those few weeks. I have never got the full rate of DA either but I think they appreciated my honesty. I started job number two last week and sent them more paperwork just today so we will see how long it takes this time.

Oh my goodness, I see they still have those ridiculous time-frames!

When I was working part time on a contract and changed jobs to a new one, I obviously wrote in and told them, sent payslips etc - took them I’d say 4 months to reduce/change the rate as well and I kept ringing them because I was so afraid I’d have to backdate money!

When I began self-employment I sent a letter to inform them and asked about appropriate steps as I’d no wage slips. Heard nothing. Soon I was called for review and I asked what I should do about the fact that my income varies each month - the officer said there was no point writing in every month as they’d never get around to processing them in time and it would look like I was changing jobs every single month - considering it took them 3/4 months for a single job change review I agreed.

He advised that as long as my earnings stayed consistent, I kept my taxes up to date as self employed (which I do) and I didn’t start full time work, I’d have nothing to worry about so now I just have to explain this to the new reviewer... I’m actually going to call them tomorrow before I send everything next week just to make sure I have everything right.

Snow_White1987

Just a little update:

I actually rang DA section this morning and they were really lovely.

Woman on the phone said almost everyone would get likely called up for means-tested reviews on DSP over coming weeks due to the pandemic and income changing for the bulk of people – but assured me that I was just one of thousands getting called.

She also said in the case of the more complex cases such as the self-employed I might be called up to go to my local intro office which I said was fine and she advised to mark on the statements the payments as I didn't have wage slips to make it easier for the person doing the review.

She also said it could take up to a year (!) for them to come back with the rate feedback so just to submit and forget about it because I could be in for a long wait and there was no point in being anxious about something I might not know the outcome of for 12 months.

Hi Snow white.

I am on disability allowance and am self employed since 2015.
I have a multitude of health problems which i discuss on another thread.
Was there a copy of your accounts or tax return requested.
The first €120 weekly is disregarded when it comes to the means test.

Some good news was announced in the last budget for us. The €120 was increased to €140 in June.

Anything that is earned between €350 and €140 is halved and that is considered your means. The disability allowance is reduced by this.

You probably no this already but if not it might give you a bit of a guide.

If the weekly means or weekly profit goes over this, the weekly disability allowance is reduced accordingly. Thats what i was told.

I no it sounds a bit complicated but the citizens information website is excellent on this.

Hope this helps a bit.

Take Care.

Dempo1

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Just a little update:

I actually rang DA section this morning and they were really lovely.

Woman on the phone said almost everyone would get likely called up for means-tested reviews on DSP over coming weeks due to the pandemic and income changing for the bulk of people – but assured me that I was just one of thousands getting called.

She also said in the case of the more complex cases such as the self-employed I might be called up to go to my local intro office which I said was fine and she advised to mark on the statements the payments as I didn't have wage slips to make it easier for the person doing the review.

She also said it could take up to a year (!) for them to come back with the rate feedback so just to submit and forget about it because I could be in for a long wait and there was no point in being anxious about something I might not know the outcome of for 12 months.

That's great so less worrying now

Snow_White1987

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi Snow white.

I am on disability allowance and am self employed since 2015.
I have a multitude of health problems which i discuss on another thread.
Was there a copy of your accounts or tax return requested.
The first €120 weekly is disregarded when it comes to the means test.

Some good news was announced in the last budget for us. The €120 was increased to €140 in June.

Anything that is earned between €350 and €140 is halved and that is considered your means. The disability allowance is reduced by this.

You probably no this already but if not it might give you a bit of a guide.

If the weekly means or weekly profit goes over this, the weekly disability allowance is reduced accordingly. Thats what i was told.

I no it sounds a bit complicated but the citizens information website is excellent on this.

Hope this helps a bit.

Take Care.

Thanks so much for this helpful information! They requested my accounts as I don't have wage slips.

And do you know if anything earned between €350 and €140 is halved after taking into account tax and PRSI? Or not?

I hope it's after tax as I take 20% – 25% of everything I earn and put it aside for tax at the end of the year – I don't count it as means I have to spend!

I was also told they take into account things like transport and medical expenses depending on the disability in question when looking at your outgoings – were you ever told this?

I am not fully sure on the tax and prsi part.
I always gave my net profit. My income was small the last few years. I only paid prisi.

Probably a welfare officer would be in best position to advise.
The citizens information again could help.
They have an excellent part on the website on working with disability allowance.
It covers means testing etc.

Just to confirm again the €140 only came in from 1 June 2020.€120 before that.

Also sometimes the social welfare work out there own means. They accepted my notice of assessment as my means.

I no for some other payments like farm assist they dont allow some expenses. Thats a different job though.

Let me no how you get on.

Good luck again

Snow_White1987

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to confirm again the €140 only came in from 1 June 2020.€120 before that.

Also sometimes the social welfare work out there own means. They accepted my notice of assessment as my means.

I no for some other payments like farm assist they dont allow some expenses. Thats a different job though.

Let me no how you get on.

Good luck again

Thank you so much!

What's a Notice of Assessment as means, if you don't mind my asking?

I was told also it's sometimes definitely them taking it on a case-by-case basis in terms of what counts as expenses and means, dependant on the disability.

I'm sending my accounts and form with a cover note next week but they've said the review could take months so I'm going to send it off and forget about it until I need to worry!

Snow_White1987

Deleted User wrote: »

I am not fully sure on the tax and prsi part.
I always gave my net profit. My income was small the last few years. I only paid prisi.

Probably a welfare officer would be in best position to advise.
The citizens information again could help.
They have an excellent part on the website on working with disability allowance.
It covers means testing etc.

Thank you so much – net profit is a good way to go when you're self-employed I think.

Jerry Attrick

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

What's a Notice of Assessment as means, if you don't mind my asking?

It's the notice that you get back from Revenue confirming the Form 11 information that you filed under ROS. (see box)

As I mentioned previously, SW can access this information from Revenue if necessary, but as they have asked you to provide the means information, it's more convenient if you send them a copy.

I acknowledge receipt of your income tax return and self assessment for the year ending 31/12/20XX.

Details of your Self Assessment are set out as follows:

Amount of income or profits arising for this period €XXXXX
Amount of income tax chargeable for this period €XXXX
Amount of USC chargeable for this period for self €XXXX
Amount of PRSI chargeable for this period for self €XXX

Amount of tax payable for this period €XXXX"

Dude240502

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Woman on the phone said almost everyone would get likely called up for means-tested reviews on DSP over coming weeks due to the pandemic and income changing for the bulk of people – but assured me that I was just one of thousands getting called.

Did anyone else hear this?

Dempo1

Dude240502 wrote: »

Did anyone else hear this?

The DSP and indeed HSE have been at a standstill in terms of their normal operational procedures in relation to reviews on a host of Benifit/allowance payments, DSP in particular have been totally focused on Pandemic payments and processing for near 14 months now.

Now this has eased, they are returning to normality which includes regular reviews of existing awarded claims. I've heard from a dozen people recently who are under going reviews, not specifically DA & Self employed but DA, JSA, two working family payments etc. I mention HSE as their medical card division are are also reviewing eligibility of medical cards on renewal for 3 people I know.

Reviews are SOP but due to pandemic they were pretty much halted. It's nothing to be concerned about and reviews certainly nothing new.

Dude240502

Does that mean that everyone who is on any type of social welfare payment will be reviewed, even the types that normally don't get reviewed, did anyone else hear this, I can't see where it was reported anywhere?

Dempo1

Dude240502 wrote: »

Does that mean that everyone who is on any type of social welfare payment will be reviewed, even the types that normally don't get reviewed, did anyone else hear this, I can't see where it was reported anywhere?

No it does not mean everyone and that is not was said, DSP don't advertise the fact they are reviewing anyone, why would you expect to see it reported on?

All sorts of reviews can take place, medical, financial, means etc this is not new. Every year a percentage of recepients are reviewed. If you take a recent post on another Thread relating to a new Invalidity Pension awarded, it clearly states in the T&C"S recepient must make themselves available for a medical review if requested to do so. It's likely never to happen but the DSP retains the right to review.

Snow_White1987

Dude240502 wrote: »

Does that mean that everyone who is on any type of social welfare payment will be reviewed, even the types that normally don't get reviewed, did anyone else hear this, I can't see where it was reported anywhere?

I was told by the DSP it was to be expected that most on DSP will be reviewed now given the pandemic - and that it was a totally normal procedure.

It’s known that you can be reviewed on DSP payments at any time so what they told me is not unusual so it wouldn’t be reported anywhere really.