Exemption from Irish - what are your experiences?

Hi,

My children will be granted an exemption from Irish when they join a primary school, having been abroad for years.

I would like to hear from people whose kids are also eligible for an exemption: did you take the exemption, or not? What were your reasons for deciding what you did?

What do your kids do instead of Irish in primary / secondary schools and how has the application process for third level been affected, if at all?

Thanks,

byhookorbycrook

It varies,children with an exemption usually have one due to additional needs and would attend the learning support teacher at that time . Otherwise, there aren’t spare staff around , so your child may be given additional work to do independently. I’d allow them join in on the oral work , if at all possible. ( Primary )

starlady1

Primary Level

Children who have Irish exemptions in my experience have been granted it due to literacy difficulties. As a consequence they generally work on literacy skills during Irish time or sometimes maths if that is an area of need for them. This may be done independently in class or they would attend a support teacher but this probably would not apply in your case as children would only attend a support teacher if they have additional needs.

I imagine if your children are finding any other subject difficult at primary level they would focus on that during Irish time.

I don't know about second level but there can be implications for third level.

Taken from the department's website:

Irish language requirements for entry to third level courses/programmes of study are at the discretion of the relevant colleges and universities. These requirements may be subject to change and it is therefore important that students/parents are aware of such requirements. Information on third level entry requirements can be accessed on relevant college/university websites. Typically, at post-primary level, guidance teachers have access to this information.

It is important that parents/guardians and pupils/students are made aware that Irish is an entry requirement for access to programmes for initial teacher education (primary) offered in the four state funded Higher Education Institutions.

Information on entry requirements to these primary teacher education courses is available at https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Information/-New-Teachers/-Initial-Teacher-Education-ITE-Primary.html



There is also a faqs section on Irish Exemptions which may be of interest to you.

https://www.education.ie/en/Parents/Information/Irish-Exemption/FAQs.html#:~:text=In%20the%20case%20of%20an,he%2Fshe%20did%20not%20have

spookwoman

I don't know what it's like these days but when I didn't do Irish and religion I was usually in a room with others and left to study. I didn't do Irish because I refused, I hated it and thought it was a complete waste of time. Would have been better off learning another language.

Sleepy

There are a couple of kids in my daughters class that were lucky enough to qualify for exemptions. They do the same as she does during religion: work away independently (usually getting their homework done).

The general response from the rest of the class is envy. The biggest impact on future careers is that it may disqualify them from certain professions that have had an artificial requirement for the language added to them (e.g. primary teaching, the gardaí etc.)

I joined national school in 5th class, I did take Irish.
By the time I was in first year I was the same as all other students and I did honours at leaving cert.
I know when Irish class was on in secondary school, there were no other classes timetabled against it, so I guess I would have been left to my own devices if I didn't do it, schools may be different now though, maybe more students not doing Irish etc.

I got a crash course in learning Irish which I reckon was a lot easier then how the rest of the students learned

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

There are a couple of kids in my daughters class that were lucky enough to qualify for exemptions. They do the same as she does during religion: work away independently (usually getting their homework done).

The general response from the rest of the class is envy. The biggest impact on future careers is that it may disqualify them from certain professions that have had an artificial requirement for the language added to them (e.g. primary teaching, the gardaí etc.)

Any second language is a requirement for AGS, but they do irish in the training college.

freshpopcorn

I did a very small bit of Irish in 1st class and didn’t do it again until 6th class.
I had a bit of a speech impediment and had resource hours. (These took place during Irish.)
Was resource useful to me? Yes, it was originally but in the end I ended up doing loads of stuff I didn’t need assistance with and sort of got sick of it and I basically refused to do it in 6th class and that’s how I ended up taking up Irish again.

In secondary school I didn’t have to do Irish either but I kept it on and had no regrets doing Ordinary Level.
Those who had exceptions generally went off and did work with another teacher. None of them took on French or German either in secondary school. However, that was 16 years ago.

jood22

bubblypop wrote: »

I joined national school in 5th class, I did take Irish.
By the time I was in first year I was the same as all other students and I did honours at leaving cert.
I know when Irish class was on in secondary school, there were no other classes timetabled against it, so I guess I would have been left to my own devices if I didn't do it, schools may be different now though, maybe more students not doing Irish etc.

I got a crash course in learning Irish which I reckon was a lot easier then how the rest of the students learned

what do you mean by crash course?? Did your parents get you something outside of school? Curious as we are due back to Ireland in the coming months and our daughter will be going into 5th also with very little Irish

Jim2007

Deleted User wrote: »

My children will be granted an exemption from Irish when they join a primary school, having been abroad for years.

How do your kids feel about it?

Both my kids are grown up now and never lived Ireland, so there never was a need for Irish. But both have done classes in recent years because they felt a bit left out when in Ireland with their cousins. Little things, like common phrases, the bit of Irish in speeches, place names etc….

The Mighty Quinn

jood22 wrote: »

what do you mean by crash course?? Did your parents get you something outside of school? Curious as we are due back to Ireland in the coming months and our daughter will be going into 5th also with very little Irish

I'd say that's what the poster means.

When I left primary school my Irish was abysmal because our teachers were crap beyond belief at teaching us. Some in my class in first year then were years ahead of me.

I'd 3 great Irish teachers in secondary school and got a higher level A at leaving cert. Most of first year was spent by the teacher getting people "up to a level", she ran over all the basics again.

So out of school help at 5th class should easily help your daughter if she has any aptitude for learning in my opinion.

NIMAN

Funny reading the comments here, and knowing that the northern assembly could be collapsed over the Irish language.

kowloonkev

bubblypop wrote: »

I joined national school in 5th class, I did take Irish.
By the time I was in first year I was the same as all other students and I did honours at leaving cert.
I know when Irish class was on in secondary school, there were no other classes timetabled against it, so I guess I would have been left to my own devices if I didn't do it, schools may be different now though, maybe more students not doing Irish etc.

I got a crash course in learning Irish which I reckon was a lot easier then how the rest of the students learned

Really great to hear this positive attitude of getting on with it even though you were at a disadvantage. I'm sure it's a reflection on your parents too and has served you in good stead.

kowloonkev

bubblypop wrote: »

I joined national school in 5th class, I did take Irish.
By the time I was in first year I was the same as all other students and I did honours at leaving cert.
I know when Irish class was on in secondary school, there were no other classes timetabled against it, so I guess I would have been left to my own devices if I didn't do it, schools may be different now though, maybe more students not doing Irish etc.

I got a crash course in learning Irish which I reckon was a lot easier then how the rest of the students learned

Really great to hear this positive attitude of getting on with it even though you were at a disadvantage. I'm sure it's a reflection on your parents too and has served you in good stead.

3DataModem

NIMAN wrote: »

Funny reading the comments here, and knowing that the northern assembly could be collapsed over the Irish language.

Those who don't want it to be mandatory in Ireland and those who do want it to be recognised in Northern Ireland, want the same thing; choice.

jood22

jood22 wrote: »

what do you mean by crash course?? Did your parents get you something outside of school? Curious as we are due back to Ireland in the coming months and our daughter will be going into 5th also with very little Irish

No, it was the regular teacher, she just taught me very well, quickly I had caught up in no time. There were a couple of days where we would stay after class, but not for long
It was a rural school though, and had very small numbers.

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

How do your kids feel about it?

Both my kids are grown up now and never lived Ireland, so there never was a need for Irish. But both have done classes in recent years because they felt a bit left out when in Ireland with their cousins. Little things, like common phrases, the bit of Irish in speeches, place names etc….

They are too young to be aware of it at this stage (both are under 5). I'm just thinking ahead.

The point you make about feeling left out is a valid one, and I've thought of it myself. They may feel more culturally aloof from their peers by not doing it.

On the other hand, I personally believe it is a complete waste of time, resources and intellectual energy in a schooling context.

I'd be inclined to give them a choice for primary and secondary, but avail of the opt-out from the university requirement so that they could focus on other subjects in the senior cycle.

They are under five?
So not even a little bit behind in the learning?
Seems it's just your personal dislike of the language that is the main reason for them not doing Irish?
They might like it........

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

They are under five?
So not even a little bit behind in the learning?
Seems it's just your personal dislike of the language that is the main reason for them not doing Irish?
They might like it........

By the time we move back they will be significantly older, but...frankly my reasons are none of your business and your opinion on same is not requested.
I am simply looking for the experiences of parents or students who availed of the exemption.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

By the time we move back they will be significantly older, but...frankly my reasons are none of your business and your opinion on same is not requested.
I am simply looking for the experiences of parents or students who availed of the exemption.

Well your posting on a discussion board looking for experiences, and seeing as I was significantly older then your children when I started school here, I thought maybe my experience might help in some way.
But I can see you don't need any help from me or anyone really, apart from maybe a someone to teach you some manners.

byhookorbycrook

bubblypop wrote: »

Well your posting on a discussion board looking for experiences, and seeing as I was significantly older then your children when I started school here, I thought maybe my experience might help in some way.
But I can see you don't need any help from me or anyone really, apart from maybe a someone to teach you some manners.

Keep it civil, please .

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Well your posting on a discussion board looking for experiences, and seeing as I was significantly older then your children when I started school here, I thought maybe my experience might help in some way.
But I can see you don't need any help from me or anyone really, apart from maybe a someone to teach you some manners.

I prefer straight talking to passive aggressive insinuations myself, even it makes me sound blunt. For example, I don't use smily emoticons to make my insults seem more innocuous and constructive than they are.

I detected an all too common insinuation in your post that I have a complex about Irish and therefore I'm being an overbearing parent, bent on depriving my children of the beauty and blessings of the Irish language and all that it represents.

Aware that indulging you in this point could pitch the thread into a pro/anti Irish culture war, I answered you accordingly. No regrets.

Do you detect that I think you're a bit paranoid also?
You have taken an awful lot of personal issues there and somehow made the connection that I insinuated those things.

I merely said your kids might like Irish, which they might, they may be good at languages.
Calm down.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Do you detect that I think you're a bit paranoid also?
You have taken an awful lot of personal issues there and somehow made the connection that I insinuated those things.

I merely said your kids might like Irish, which they might, they may be good at languages.
Calm down.

If you had merely said that, there wouldn't be an issue.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you had merely said that, there wouldn't be an issue.

There is no issue.
Not with me anyway

Jim2007

Deleted User wrote: »

On the other hand, I personally believe it is a complete waste of time, resources and intellectual energy in a schooling context.
.

I can understand where you are coming from and when I was 17 or 18, I’d have been standing right there beside you. But now at the age of 58 I’d be standing opposite you!

Most people learn a language for it’s utility, their mother tongue simply to communicate, for work, travel, retire abroad and so on. And from that point of view Irish for most adults is a waste of time…. It’s not as if you’ll be unable to get your car serviced because you can’t talk to the mechanic!

But for a child it is different. It introduces them to the idea that there are other languages out there, they learn not only the grammatical concepts but experience putting in to practice and most importantly they learn to think in another language, it’s basically gymnastics for the brain! And the earlier the brain starts to learn these techniques the easier it is to learn other languages.

I’ve sat in German classes with Americans and English people and seen them fall further and further behind as they try to come to grips with the entire concept for the first time! Some are even afraid to try thinking in another language in case they might forget their English! It is truly amazing.

Swiss people have a reputation for being good at languages, especially those from the German speaking region. But it is not so impressive when you understand that the dialect they speak at home is not used in school. Basically from their first day in school they have to learn a new language, so they have an advantage right from the start.

This is purely my opinion, but I believe there is a big deficiency in the teaching of English grammar in Irish schools and it is compensated for by the fact that Irish teachers end up teaching English grammar.

So while I’d agree Irish does not have much to offer most adults, for a child it does teach a lot of skills that make the learning of other languages easier later on.

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

I can understand where you are coming from and when I was 17 or 18, I’d have been standing right there beside you. But now at the age of 58 I’d be standing opposite you!

Most people learn a language for it’s utility, their mother tongue simply to communicate, for work, travel, retire abroad and so on. And from that point of view Irish for most adults is a waste of time…. It’s not as if you’ll be unable to get your car serviced because you can’t talk to the mechanic!

But for a child it is different. It introduces them to the idea that there are other languages out there, they learn not only the grammatical concepts but experience putting in to practice and most importantly they learn to think in another language, it’s basically gymnastics for the brain! And the earlier the brain starts to learn these techniques the easier it is to learn other languages.

I’ve sat in German classes with Americans and English people and seen them fall further and further behind as they try to come to grips with the entire concept for the first time! Some are even afraid to try thinking in another language in case they might forget their English! It is truly amazing.

Swiss people have a reputation for being good at languages, especially those from the German speaking region. But it is not so impressive when you understand that the dialect they speak at home is not used in school. Basically from their first day in school they have to learn a new language, so they have an advantage right from the start.

This is purely my opinion, but I believe there is a big deficiency in the teaching of English grammar in Irish schools and it is compensated for by the fact that Irish teachers end up teaching English grammar.

So while I’d agree Irish does not have much to offer most adults, for a child it does teach a lot of skills that make the learning of other languages easier later on.

Actually I don't object to anything you've written. I just think that you could obtain the same expansion of the mind by teaching kids more - shall we say - thriving languages, i.e. languages spoken by millions or even billions of people in other countries, rather than Irish. My kids are both learning other languages currently -- their mother's (Tagalog) and Arabic (as it is mandatory in school here, and no the irony is not lost on me!)

Jim2007

bubblypop wrote: »

I merely said your kids might like Irish, which they might, they may be good at languages.

They almost certainly won’t and pretty much nobody is born good at languages it’s a skill the brain learns!

Kids are funny little buggers, they’re just like adults - if they can’t see a point to learning something they won’t. My daughter did not speak a word of English to me until she was about nine, although I always responded in English. She knew I understood her when she spoke in the local Zürich dialect, so why bother. It was not until she spent two weeks on her own with her Mayo cousins that she decided learning to speak English was important and she started to make a conscious effort to speak English to me. Not for my benefit, but hers, mind.

There are studies out there that show that people how speak more than one language have their brain wired differently. It’s a skill to be learned and just like most skills the more proficient you become the more enjoyable it is.

UID0

If your children are under 5, they won't be eligible for an exemption for having been abroad (unless you are a foreigner who is a diplomatic or consular representative in Ireland). The relevant Department of Education Circular is 0052/2019. It has made it much more difficult to get an Irish exemption.
On the basis of being abroad, the child has to be at least 12 and in/after the final year of primary school.
If the child has a SEN (Special Educational Need) they have to be in at least 2nd class to get an exemption and the school have to have documented their attempts to make the curriculum accessible to the child.
This change was brought in by Joe McHugh to enforce (as opposed to encourage) uptake of Irish by making it more difficult to be exempted.

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

They almost certainly won’t...

Kids are funny little buggers, they’re just like adults - if they can’t see a point to learning something they won’t. My daughter did not speak a word of English to me until she was about nine, although I always responded in English. She knew I understood her when she spoke in the local Zürich dialect, so why bother. It was not until she spent two weeks on her own with her Mayo cousins that she decided learning to speak English was important and she started to make a conscious effort to speak English to me. Not for my benefit, but hers, mind.

My eldest is just about to turn 5. A few weeks ago he got up and excused himself from his class when the Arabic teacher entered the room. When the staff followed him out and told him he had to learn, he actually argued (politely) with them that it wasn't necessary because none of his friends and family speak it, and "people don't speak it in the shops either". The teachers told me subsequently that they couldn't counter his points from the point of view of utility, which is all he was interested in.

He is only just 5.

For separate behavior-related reasons, we were advised to have a psychoeducational assessment done on him. As part of that, he was found to have an IQ two standard deviations above the mean. He's smarter than his parents and the psychologist told us that very often he is going to push back when rules don't make much sense to him.

There's just no way he will want to start Irish when he's 9 or 10. He'll already have a hard enough time moving away from all his friends to a cloudy, cold country without having to spend 20-30% of his time in school learning a language that for all intents and purposes, no one speaks*.

Now I could be wrong and if he tells me he wants to learn it, I'll raise no objections. But it's not going to happen.

*I know that some people really do speak Irish.

Jim2007

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually I don't object to anything you've written. I just think that you could obtain the same expansion of the mind by teaching kids more - shall we say - thriving languages, i.e. languages spoken by millions or even billions of people in other countries, rather than Irish. My kids are both learning other languages currently -- their mother's (Tagalog) and Arabic (as it is mandatory in school here, and no the irony is not lost on me!)

Well if that is the case, I’d be very slow to exclude them from Irish, it’s not going to be particularly burdensome for them and it is part on the national identity.

I did not really appreciate how important that was for my kids until I heard my son described himself to an Italian border guard when he was about seven: I’m Irish but I have a Swiss mother! Although he has never lived in Ireland, at 23 he always Identifies as Irish, travels on an Irish passport and reads the Mayo News every week, follows the GAA etc! Where as my daughter does the exact opposite.

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

Where as my daughter does the exact opposite.

Interesting. Any theories as to why she has gone in the other direction?

Jim2007

Deleted User wrote: »

There's just no way he will want to start Irish when he's 9 or 10. He'll already have a hard enough time moving away from all his friends to a cloudy, cold country without having to spend 20-30% of his time in school learning a language that for all intents and purposes, no one speaks*.

Now I could be wrong and if he tells me he wants to learn it, I'll raise no objections. But it's not going to happen.

At that stage you won’t be the one making the decisions, you’ll be one of the parties to the negotiations :P. (Been there, done that, have the t-shirt)

One of my son’s reasons for learning Irish was that as a citizen of Ireland, he should at least know the basics, that was at 22. He also finds it amusing to break down Irish place names to get the meaning of them, for what ever reason.

Jim2007

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting. Any theories as to why she has gone in the other direction?

I really don’t know. Where we live here in Switzerland, the majority of they kids going to school are dual nationals or their parents come from different language regions and they all seem to do the same. I guess national culture is an important part of identity.

On one occasion when he was about 6, my son came home from school and declared: Hans-Ruedi is strange! After much probing we discovered the reason - he spoke the same language to his mother AND his father. Turns out he was the only 100% Swiss-German kid in the class….

kowloonkev

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My eldest is just about to turn 5. A few weeks ago he got up and excused himself from his class when the Arabic teacher entered the room. When the staff followed him out and told him he had to learn, he actually argued (politely) with them that it wasn't necessary because none of his friends and family speak it, and "people don't speak it in the shops either". The teachers told me subsequently that they couldn't counter his points from the point of view of utility, which is all he was interested in.

He is only just 5.

For separate behavior-related reasons, we were advised to have a psychoeducational assessment done on him. As part of that, he was found to have an IQ two standard deviations above the mean. He's smarter than his parents and the psychologist told us that very often he is going to push back when rules don't make much sense to him.

There's just no way he will want to start Irish when he's 9 or 10. He'll already have a hard enough time moving away from all his friends to a cloudy, cold country without having to spend 20-30% of his time in school learning a language that for all intents and purposes, no one speaks*.

Now I could be wrong and if he tells me he wants to learn it, I'll raise no objections. But it's not going to happen.

*I know that some people really do speak Irish.

It's a tricky situation because I think it's very important that kids learn that even though some things don't make a lot of sense, they have to accept it anyway if they want to be successful, because the world isn't going to change for anybody.

Maybe a child can get around a lot of rules that most follow, but if they grow up with that mindset they won't be very popular in any walk of life.

kowloonkev

kowloonkev wrote: »

It's a tricky situation because I think it's very important that kids learn that even though some things don't make a lot of sense, they have to accept it anyway if they want to be successful, because the world isn't going to change for anybody.

Maybe a child can get around a lot of rules that most follow, but if they grow up with that mindset they won't be very popular in any walk of life.

You're 100% correct. However we (as his parents) want to pick battles that are actually worth having and win them. If we insist on things that aren't truly important, we'll have reduced credibility when it comes to insisting on that things that are.

anplaya27

I was exempt from doing Irish as a child in school. Am profoundly Deaf ( ISL user). Hard enough learning/understanding English considering we cant hear spoken languages. Which is why the church/state policy of oralism was deem to fail - the linguistic suppression of Irish Sign Language - like when spoken Irish was banned by the British exept the Irish State did the exact same thing to the Deaf community in the 1950s onwards - Deaf people were forbidden from using their native sign language and punished if caught signing. Research has shown Deaf people need access to their first language ie sign to gain any type of fluency in a spoken one.

Only thing it stopped you from doing was being a primary school teacher due to the Irish requirement. However since 2017 when ISL was recognised as a native official language of Ireland in legislation through the Irish Sign Language Act, the Irish requirement was swapped for ISL fluency - Deaf can now teach as primary school teachers in Deaf schools.

Big Bag of Chips

I did Geography to Leaving Cert. I can honestly say I don't use anything I learnt up to Leaving Cert in my day to day life! I work in an environment where a lot of Arabic speaking immigrants use our services and we are always trying to match them up with an Arabic speaking worker.

I think starting out from the point of trying to figure out how to stop your child learning something is a strange view point. In primary school your child having an exemption from Irish isn't going yo be a benefit in the sense that they will be able to use that time to be taught something else. They are not going to learn French, or German or Chinese or Science during that time instead. Most they'll do is get their homework done or read a book.

I know that's not the opinion you asked for, but I think it's worth pointing out. Your children will go through school learning lots of stuff that they will not ever need to use in life beyond school. (how many of us still remember all the theorems and their application?!)

Your children may well qualify for an exemption from Irish. But that doesn't mean they have to use the exemption. And it doesn't mean they will automatically thank you for removing them from Irish. Your likes/dislikes/opinions aren't your children's. And rather than limit their learning, why not encourage it?

You could replace the study of Irish in your post with Catholic religion / communion and confirmation prep, and somehow I don't think anyone would raise an objection to parents seeking an exemption from those. They'd probably point you to Educate Together and be totally understanding.

But because it's Irish, it's somehow different in the eyes of many people. There are probably many reasons for this attitude ranging from "conform, conform, why do you have to be so awkward??" to "I suffered through it; you bloody well should too" to proud-to-be-Irish types feeling a flush of anger when someone says they don't want to do it or see the point of it, to more innocuous viewpoints holding that it really is a beneficial experience.

I was sent off to boarding school when I was 12. I hated it. I wouldn't dream of putting my kids through that experience, but hey, my dislikes are not their dislikes.

Anyway, like I said, they'll be old enough to have a view when we move back and if they want to do it, I'll be happy to let them at it. This despite the fact that I'd rather they do homework or read a good book while the teacher is teaching the modh coinniollach and talking about the aimsear and scamaill sa speir.

Anyway thanks for the replies and input.

Wanting kids to stay out of religious doctrine is completely different.
Would you say the same for history? Useless subject, no need to learn about it, kids shouldn't have to, therefore they should be able to opt out?

Big Bag of Chips

Deleted User wrote: »

You could replace the study of Irish in your post with Catholic religion / communion and confirmation prep, and somehow I don't think anyone would raise an objection to parents seeking an exemption from those. .

That's not comparing like for like.

You'd need to replace Irish with any other subject, history, geography, science, French etc to see what the objection would be.

kowloonkev

I think most people would agree that Irish shouldn't be a mandatory leaving cert subject. A choice should come in after JC if not from the start of secondary school. I would agree with the OP in terms of it being really unnecessary for the most part, and I don't think the subject gave me a greater sense of Irish culture than if I had never learned a word of it.

I'd much prefer a different subject of Irish Culture without emphasis on language that focused instead more on Irish history, traditional arts, folklore etc in primary school and as an option in secondary school, because a lot of kids just don't get introduced to that unless their parents bring them to outside classes.

spookwoman

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I did Geography to Leaving Cert. I can honestly say I don't use anything I learnt up to Leaving Cert in my day to day life! I work in an environment where a lot of Arabic speaking immigrants use our services and we are always trying to match them up with an Arabic speaking worker.

I think starting out from the point of trying to figure out how to stop your child learning something is a strange view point. In primary school your child having an exemption from Irish isn't going yo be a benefit in the sense that they will be able to use that time to be taught something else. They are not going to learn French, or German or Chinese or Science during that time instead. Most they'll do is get their homework done or read a book.

I know that's not the opinion you asked for, but I think it's worth pointing out. Your children will go through school learning lots of stuff that they will not ever need to use in life beyond school. (how many of us still remember all the theorems and their application?!)

Your children may well qualify for an exemption from Irish. But that doesn't mean they have to use the exemption. And it doesn't mean they will automatically thank you for removing them from Irish. Your likes/dislikes/opinions aren't your children's. And rather than limit their learning, why not encourage it?

You may not need geography in your day to day life but that does not mean that's the case with everyone. Geography is probably used a lot more than Irish for the every day person who doesn't use it in the job.
I don't use geography every day but I know how to use a map, I know how to get to somewhere when the satnav isn't up to the job in the boonies. I know never to buy a house on a flood plain. I know when I see a lake on the side of a mountain I know how it was formed. I have an interest in fossils and I use geography there, I also use geography to appreciate how our landscape was formed.

Even if that kid doesn't take Irish and ends up sitting in a room with a few others to study, they sound like they are smart enough to make good use of their time. They may go against the grain when it comes to what they think is best and may p*ss a few people off for standing up to their beliefs but that doesn't mean that the world will turn against them and make it difficult. We are not all cut from the same cloth and the schooling system doesn't take that into account.

Parents make choices when their children enter secondary school on what classes their children will take. Will they take German or French. Which of the science will it be and it should be no different when it comes to Irish.
Why do people have such a problem with those who don't want to learn Irish, want to have an Irish identity or even interested all things Irish. People make their own choices and parents make choices for who their children want to be. Not everyone cares about having cultural identities and to be honest some of them could do with being forgotten about.

Big Bag of Chips

spookwoman wrote: »

Parents make choices when their children enter secondary school on what classes their children will take.

I have 3 children in secondary school. I never made the choice on what subjects they took.

I've been through secondary school, 30 years ago, as have my siblings, our parents didn't make our subject choices.

I was thinking that, what parents decide their children's subjects in secondary school!?

Jim2007

spookwoman wrote: »

Parents make choices when their children enter secondary school on what classes their children will take. Will they take German or French. Which of the science will it be and it should be no different when it comes to Irish.
Why do people have such a problem with those who don't want to learn Irish, want to have an Irish identity or even interested all things Irish. People make their own choices and parents make choices for who their children want to be. Not everyone cares about having cultural identities and to be honest some of them could do with being forgotten about.

Well I don't know any that did and I don't know any 13 or 14 year would agree to it either....

Big Bag of Chips

OP, just for context on where I'm coming from: I don't live in or near a gaeltacht area. Neither of my parents can speak Irish. In school Irish came very naturally to me. So naturally that I didn't even notice I was good at it.

I did higher level Irish in my leaving cert and got an A2 in it. Easiest grade I got with by far the least amount of effort put into study. It was a nice, easy, boost to my overall points total. I got 2 higher level As in my leaving, English and Irish.

I know for a fact that if my parents had the choice they might have been very likely to opt me out of Irish, purely on their own experience or ability. And I wouldn't have gotten the easy (for me) A in my leaving. My other subjects were all averaging Bs and Cs.

Despite doing so well in my leaving cert, I don't use Irish in my day to day life. After 13 years of Geography I can read a map, and know not to by build a house on a flood plain but I'd guess people who haven't studied geography for 13 years could probably figure that out too! And anyone with a small bit of interest and Google could learn about fossils and lake formations in an evening. Actually all of that was probably taught in primary school.

Speaking from my own personal experience I know my parents may have made very different choices for me if they were making choices for me, based on their own preferences. These choices almost certainly wouldn't have worked out as well for me. I wouldn't have gotten 2 As for a start. I'd have gotten 1, and a few Bs and Cs.

I think you're always better to try something and see what happens rather than immediately shutting the option down and deciding there's no point. Your children might well decide Irish is not for them and be happy to remove themselves. Or they might find, especially if languages come naturally to them, that it's an easy honour in the leaving cert.

freshpopcorn

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I have 3 children in secondary school. I never made the choice on what subjects they took.

I've been through secondary school, 30 years ago, as have my siblings, our parents didn't make our subject choices.

I think they call it Helicopter parenting!

In most schools unless the child has a language difficulty they will be in the classroom while the class is being taught. They will be able to work on other things albeit surrounded by an entire group learning a language. It might just be easier to let them see how they get on at in at primary level before you make a decision for second level.

@Big Bag of Chips

@Big Bag of Chips Totally agree. Any subject can be relevant depending on what direction you take in life. I did Leaving Cert Chemistry and Higher Level English. Jasus so much poetry on that English course 🙄 but at least I have some knowledge of who Séamus Heaney is. Also I made soap in my kitchen but apart from that Chemistry! However Agricultural Science, French and Irish were very useful to me career wise and regards life experience . These could be absolutely useless to the next person.

Let the child figure out what they like I’d say. You’ve no idea what’s ahead of them.

@[Deleted User]

@[Deleted User] Arabic can be taken here as an extra Leaving Cert subject. A lot of kids who speak another language take that language as an extra subject. It’s great for points and entry to university. If it’s a language they speak at home or with family sure all the better. It’s encourages them to learn how to write and read the language they speak. All EU recognised languages can be taken as can Arabic and a few more. I don’t think Tagalong is one of them though.