Sheepdog training

arctictree

Lads, looking for some hints on training a young collie I have. I'm new to this...

I have been teaching her commands the last few weeks and she will stand, lie down and walk on, no problem.

This morning, I picked 5 empty hoggets and put them in a field behind the house.

So when I let her off, she initially races at them and grabs one by the wool. When all this has calmed down we just end up with the sheep in the corner and her standing about 10 feet away keeping them there. They just wont move. Eventually I can push them along the fence but they just wont follow me. They just stand there looking at the dog.

Any tips?!!

orm0nd

Search for Ted Hope videos on YouTube

What age is the dog.

MayoAreMagic

To be honest, my advice would be sell her and buy a trained dog. Doesnt have to be a hero, just a working dog. Ive been in your position and it turned out that i just didnt have the experience to train the dog at the time and i made a mess of it. Having a trained one will train you too, and you will be in tune with how dogs work. I persevered when someone gave me this advice and it was a mistake. You might manage it but the truth is it isnt an easy thing to do.

wrangler

arctictree wrote: »

Lads, looking for some hints on training a young collie I have. I'm new to this...

I have been teaching her commands the last few weeks and she will stand, lie down and walk on, no problem.

This morning, I picked 5 empty hoggets and put them in a field behind the house.

So when I let her off, she initially races at them and grabs one by the wool. When all this has calmed down we just end up with the sheep in the corner and her standing about 10 feet away keeping them there. They just wont move. Eventually I can push them along the fence but they just wont follow me. They just stand there looking at the dog.

Any tips?!!

Sounds like she has the making of a good one. I'd always clip a 20ft rope to her collar when training...... at least when she chases them you can stand on the rope.
Towing the rope tires them quicker too

arctictree

orm0nd wrote: »

Search for Ted Hope videos on YouTube

What age is the dog.

Thanks, she's nearly nine months and very fast, has no problem catching up with them.

arctictree

Have been advised to get them into a round pen in the middle of the field for a few weeks and teach her the flanking commands slowly. Will try that before i let her on loose sheep again as she seems very keen.

148multi

arctictree wrote: »

Have been advised to get them into a round pen in the middle of the field for a few weeks and teach her the flanking commands slowly. Will try that before i let her on loose sheep again as she seems very keen.

Make a pen in the field, make sure she can't get through the gates, a pen of 60' min. Do the sheep flock very tight with her.
Describe what the dog is doing with her eyes when the sheep are in the corner, and the position of her tail.

arctictree

148multi wrote: »

Make a pen in the field, make sure she can't get through the gates, a pen of 60' min. Do the sheep flock very tight with her.
Describe what the dog is doing with her eyes when the sheep are in the corner, and the position of her tail.

Made the pen earlier, was quite successful. She went immediately to the 12 o clock position and i gave her the flanking commands as I moved left and right and she went the right ways. I'll just keep at this for a few weeks and see how I go.

I think my problem maybe the sheep I have. They just stand there looking at her instead of moving around. Too tame. I'll have some weaned lambs soon that are quite wild and I'll try her on them when she's off the round pen. Maybe in July.

orm0nd

arctictree wrote: »

Made the pen earlier, was quite successful. She went immediately to the 12 o clock position and i gave her the flanking commands as I moved left and right and she went the right ways. I'll just keep at this for a few weeks and see how I go.

I think my problem maybe the sheep I have. They just stand there looking at her instead of moving around. Too tame. I'll have some weaned lambs soon that are quite wild and I'll try her on them when she's off the round pen. Maybe in July.

Little and often and if the dog isn't doing as she should any day just call her up and leave it for another day.

We've s young bitch as well and I reckon she will need a lot of time but plenty of power and very willing.

joe35

What size is your round pen. I made up 1 here with a 100m of sheep wire.

I'm trying to train a dog here, I've him flanking the sheep both ways at present. When I'm inside the pen he's on the outside and will run right round the fence behind me. (Outside flank)

If I stand outside, back from the fence, about 10 foot. I can, sometimes, get him to flank inside. Between me and the sheep.

He's fairly good at commands in side the pen just need to keep working on him.

My main problem is he wants to run away when works over. I thought at first that he was afraid of me, but realising now that when he thinks"fun time" is over he won't come in behind.

Apart from that he's coming along nicely

arctictree

joe35 wrote: »

What size is your round pen. I made up 1 here with a 100m of sheep wire.

I'm trying to train a dog here, I've him flanking the sheep both ways at present. When I'm inside the pen he's on the outside and will run right round the fence behind me. (Outside flank)

If I stand outside, back from the fence, about 10 foot. I can, sometimes, get him to flank inside. Between me and the sheep.

He's fairly good at commands in side the pen just need to keep working on him.

My main problem is he wants to run away when works over. I thought at first that he was afraid of me, but realising now that when he thinks"fun time" is over he won't come in behind.

Apart from that he's coming along nicely

Sounds good. I have her doing the flanking commands now on the outside of the round pen no problem. What you need is her on a really long rope so that when she's at 12 o clock, the rope is at your feet and you can give your finish command (that'll do) and stand on the rope so she can't run away. A tip I picked up is 3 out of 4 times after she comes back, praise her and then let her back on the sheep. Otherwise she'll associate coming back to you with end of fun time.

My biggest problem I have is that the ewes I have spend their time staring down the dog instead of staying close to me. I fear that when I get them out of the round pen that they just won't move and might attack the dog and ruin her. I'm tempted to just keep her on the round pen training until I have weaned lambs in about 6 weeks...

Limestone Cowboy

Have a young pup here with the last month just gone 14 weeks. He's mad keen, have him walking well on the lead, lying down, walking on and coming back to me well now and he's getting used to travelling around on the jeep, quad and tractor. Is it to soon to do any more with him? First time trying to train a dog so its all new to me. As soon as he sees the sheep or the cattle he has the head down and he's stalking them. Reckon he has the makings of a right good dog if I could train him right.

arctictree

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Have a young pup here with the last month just gone 14 weeks. He's mad keen, have him walking well on the lead, lying down, walking on and coming back to me well now and he's getting used to travelling around on the jeep, quad and tractor. Is it to soon to do any more with him? First time trying to train a dog so its all new to me. As soon as he sees the sheep or the cattle he has the head down and he's stalking them. Reckon he has the makings of a right good dog if I could train him right.

Sounds like he has it in him. He's a bit young to start on sheep though, give him a few months...

arctictree

An update on my progress. I now start in the round pen and then bring them out into the field. Generally there's chaos for a few minutes but when things have calmed down I can walk up and down the field backwards with her flanking the sheep on command. Now teaching her to stay back a bit and walk on, on command. I had to muzzle her to stop her gripping the sheep, would like opinions on that?

wrangler

arctictree wrote: »

An update on my progress. I now start in the round pen and then bring them out into the field. Generally there's chaos for a few minutes but when things have calmed down I can walk up and down the field backwards with her flanking the sheep on command. Now teaching her to stay back a bit and walk on, on command. I had to muzzle her to stop her gripping the sheep, would like opinions on that?

A good trick is to put their front paw in their collar so they have to run on three legs, when they go bite they fall on their head. your's might be a bit young for that yet

148multi

arctictree wrote: »

An update on my progress. I now start in the round pen and then bring them out into the field. Generally there's chaos for a few minutes but when things have calmed down I can walk up and down the field backwards with her flanking the sheep on command. Now teaching her to stay back a bit and walk on, on command. I had to muzzle her to stop her gripping the sheep, would like opinions on that?

It's not hard to stop the griping, but first do you intend to use her with cattle.

148multi

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Have a young pup here with the last month just gone 14 weeks. He's mad keen, have him walking well on the lead, lying down, walking on and coming back to me well now and he's getting used to travelling around on the jeep, quad and tractor. Is it to soon to do any more with him? First time trying to train a dog so its all new to me. As soon as he sees the sheep or the cattle he has the head down and he's stalking them. Reckon he has the makings of a right good dog if I could train him right.

Very small bits, he's not developed physically for full work yet.

arctictree

148multi wrote: »

It's not hard to stop the griping, but first do you intend to use her with cattle.

No, she'll be just used for sheep. I now take the muzzle off halfway through the session and all is OK. I think though that the sheep are more trained now than the dog! They tend to just bunch around me with her running in circles around us. I hope to get a new larger batch of ewe lambs next week so we'll see where we are then.

148multi

arctictree wrote: »

No, she'll be just used for sheep. I now take the muzzle off halfway through the session and all is OK. I think though that the sheep are more trained now than the dog! They tend to just bunch around me with her running in circles around us. I hope to get a new larger batch of ewe lambs next week so we'll see where we are then.

Get a long Hazel branch with a light shopping bag over the twigs, shake it at her to balance her on the sheep, the sound of the bag should work. there's a reason why they flock around you. If she ignores that you may have to use something more severe. Try to train a keep out command and that will help balance the sheep.

Limestone Cowboy

148multi wrote: »

Very small bits, he's not developed physically for full work yet.

I know that, he's not fast enough yet to get ahead of them anyway. I set up a round pen a few evenings ago just to give him a run around them the odd evening for 5 minutes and be teaching him his sides and get him stopping around sheep. He has taken to it fairly well so far.

148multi

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I know that, he's not fast enough yet to get ahead of them anyway. I set up a round pen a few evenings ago just to give him a run around them the odd evening for 5 minutes and be teaching him his sides and get him stopping around sheep. He has taken to it fairly well so far.

That's great to hear, the structure of the dog affects his /her speed. But work can damage the joints of a young dog.if you intend working cattle the goats with long ears are great to train with.

Limestone Cowboy

Have made good progress with my lad the last few days. Picked out 4 quiet hoggets and put them into a small paddock and he's handling them fairly well now. He has his sides figured out now and is stopping really well and bringing the sheep to me. Hopefully try and start him doing bits of short out runs now and try him working a small bit away from me. One of the most headwrecking and satisfying things I have ever attempted doing all rolled into one He's getting a lot more confident around them too, there was a few times the sheep tried to take refuge against the fence and he has no bother now going into the gap to push them off it, he wouldn't have done that a week ago.

148multi

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Have made good progress with my lad the last few days. Picked out 4 quiet hoggets and put them into a small paddock and he's handling them fairly well now. He has his sides figured out now and is stopping really well and bringing the sheep to me. Hopefully try and start him doing bits of short out runs now and try him working a small bit away from me. One of the most headwrecking and satisfying things I have ever attempted doing all rolled into one He's getting a lot more confident around them too, there was a few times the sheep tried to take refuge against the fence and he has no bother now going into the gap to push them off it, he wouldn't have done that a week ago.

That's great to hear.
When the dots connect with him, you'll feel like you won an Olympic gold medal.

arctictree

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Have made good progress with my lad the last few days. Picked out 4 quiet hoggets and put them into a small paddock and he's handling them fairly well now. He has his sides figured out now and is stopping really well and bringing the sheep to me. Hopefully try and start him doing bits of short out runs now and try him working a small bit away from me. One of the most headwrecking and satisfying things I have ever attempted doing all rolled into one He's getting a lot more confident around them too, there was a few times the sheep tried to take refuge against the fence and he has no bother now going into the gap to push them off it, he wouldn't have done that a week ago.

Amazing how much they progress in a few weeks when the effort is put in. I have now weaned my lambs and started my bitch on a new batch of 24 today. She's heading up the side of them now and getting them off the fence much better. Although sometimes I feel like I'm training the sheep as much as the dog!!

orm0nd

orm0nd wrote: »

Little and often and if the dog isn't doing as she should any day just call her up and leave it for another day.

We've s young bitch as well and I reckon she will need a lot of time but plenty of power and very willing.

we have done very little with our lady but she's showing serious potential

she's has massive power and all the moves just needs a bit more on the commands when she's working , still young and don't want to breAk her confidence

Limestone Cowboy

arctictree wrote: »

Amazing how much they progress in a few weeks when the effort is put in. I have now weaned my lambs and started my bitch on a new batch of 24 today. She's heading up the side of them now and getting them off the fence much better. Although sometimes I feel like I'm training the sheep as much as the dog!!

Ya I see mine now after only a few days are straight in around me when I bring him out to them. My sheep are fair quiet though and truth be told I don't need a dog for working them but was hoping in time he'd work with the cattle where he would be a godsend in the wintertime bringing cattle out of the winterage. Not sure if he will though, he's interested in them alright but there's no bit of a nip in him at all. I'll keep him away from them until the end of the year anyway and see then. He might be tougher than I think.

funkey_monkey

How old can you start training a dog? Ours was meant to go out for training at the start of Covid, but never made it so is approaching 2 and not yet been introduced to sheep. He stalks the calves in the pens - will stay all day looking in at them running along the gate. Probably have left it too late here, but would like an opinion before giving up on him.

jd06

Hi all

In the last 4 weeks I got a dog 12 months old with nothing done at all but I know hes very well bred.

Problem is hes very shy doesn't like being rubbed or handled and if I let him off he will not come back hes always cowering away

The other problem is he not showing much interest in sheep .an odd time he makes a drive at them but rarely

I know I haven't him long and I'm trying to build up trust any ideas on getting him to come to me

Thanks

The DayDream

Sounds like the dog wasn't socialized properly or even mistreated before you got him. Collies are very sensitive and shy ones take a long time to come around and will always have a bit of that - he may never make a good working dog but he could if you spend all day with him and he figures out bit by bit your routine. He certainly won't work until he trusts you and knows you are someone he can trust not to take a hand at him.

They are very sensitive to noise and tone of voice. If you are trying to train a skittish one by shouting you've no hope. They are usually smart enough you don't need to shout too hard to get them to do what you want anyway, you hear lots of lads do it but their dogs aren't nervous like that.

Talk to him like he's a baby (he still is really) very softly. Forget about the sheep training and let him get settled in. He has no idea what he's there for if he isn't trained and he won't work for you until he knows you're the lovely man who feeds him and never hurts him.

My girl I got 11 months old 9 years ago she was no good for sheep anyway and was skittish it took 2 months for her to come over to me and she is just a pet. Shame cuz she's actually very smart and fast as lightning but all she likes to do is play fetch with a ball.

Get one of those ball throwers that come with a tennis ball they're a fiver in most shops. They help the ball go farther and you don't have to touch the dirty ball. Never seen a collie who didnt got mad for this game.

Teach him to bring the ball back so you can throw it again. Once he learns that game you can walk out with the sheep and he might want to learn the next game of herding. Collies quickly learn routines and what to expect or what's expected of them when it's repeated each day.

jd06

Fairplay daydream that's all very good advice

I'm not doing much with him maybe 20 min a day or so.

He definitely wasn't mistreated so hes probably just nervous

Would doggy treats work to get him coming back ?

Limestone Cowboy

I wouldn't be worrying about him around the sheep yet either. My pup here is shy enough aswell, grand with myself and the missus but he won't go to anyone else. I'd say just to spend a good bit of time with him until he's used to you. Small things like bringing him in the jeep for an hour when you are doing the herding or bringing him into the house for an hour in the evening and he won't be long building a bond with you. A few treats and plenty of praise will help.