Deplorable Conditions at Halting Site

Dempo1

Yet another report but what's curious is the complete absence of a concept known as Parental Responsibility.

Whilst I'm not suggesting Halting Sites are ideal housing solution, they are the preferred choice of many Traveller's.

County Councils seem to me to get mostly blamed for alledged Deplorable Conditions, in this report the Name of relevant county council not revealed which is curious in itself.

More to the point of specific findings affecting children, it seems to me that Parental responsibilities is non existant and certainly never reported on. Sending children to school unwashed or in poor state of dress can not be blamed on local authorities, it's ludicrous. Curious too vasts sums can be spent of luxurious Mobile homes, Vans etc by parents and yet little spent on the welfare and well being of their Children.

I know of a halting Site in the Midlands and the services, water, waste etc would put major industrial developments to shame and yet, the filth, Rubbish, waste allowed to build up by residents is beyond shocking, is this too the fault of local Authorities? I think not.

By all accounts do reports, studies etc but time for a little objectivity but more importantly a focus on PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY.

sentient_6

How do you help people who don't want to help themselves.

I wonder how all the rubbish got onto the halting site, it's a complete mystery how that might have occurred.

Tombo2001

A discussion on Current Affairs/ IMHO about travellers can only go one way.

Welcome to Boards.

Ri_Nollaig

sentient_6 wrote: »

How do you help people who don't want to help themselves.

With money obliviously!
and when that doesn't work, just give them more!
Question this?
...well that would be racist.

Rinse and Repeat

dhaughton99

At Xmas, I contacted the EPA over travelers pouring 6 50gallon drums of engine oil into the stream beside labre park halting site and I’m still waiting for a callback.

mloc123

b0nk1e wrote: »

I wonder how all the rubbish got onto the halting site, it's a complete mystery how that might have occurred.

Settled folk apparently come and dump their rubbish on sites....

jmayo

b0nk1e wrote: »

I wonder how all the rubbish got onto the halting site, it's a complete mystery how that might have occurred.

Jaysus where have you been?

Settled people are forever dumping their rubbish at halting sites.

jmayo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

A discussion on Current Affairs/ IMHO about travellers can only go one way.

Welcome to Boards.

You mean it is only RTE that are allowed have a poor traveller story every other day?

Even when it is about bad traveller behaviour the concern from RTE is how it will affect travellers.

Are we not allowed have a counter point these days?

Rows Grower

mloc123 wrote: »

Settled folk apparently come and dump their rubbish on sites....

That particular halting site has had massive investment of money from the local council, over half a million euro in the last decade. It has been cleaned up by the council numerous times and I'm not talking about sending up a few lads in a lorry or two, the last clean up cost over 50,000 euro and mounds of rubbish were somehow back within weeks.

A security hut was erected and manned to stop illegal dumping and it was burned to the ground, security staff were threatened by an armed and masked gang.

Firemen have been attacked and injured trying to control fires there. It seems some people want to make the place a no go area.

Dempo1

Tombo2001 wrote: »

A discussion on Current Affairs/ IMHO about travellers can only go one way.

Welcome to Boards.

A ligitimate question being asked, It's about another Report that yet again seems not to deal with issues that clearly come under the area of Parental Responsibility or lack of it. These numerous reports are generally very quick to apportion blame and always deflect any notion of personal responsibility. If for example a citizen, not under the the Auspices of Ethnic Minority, sent their children to school unwashed, disheveled looking etc, don't you think the Authorities might be asking some questions of the Parents?? This report mentions absolutely NOTHING about basic parental responsibilities. The argument re low income doesn't wash with me (no pun intended), one only has to look at various driveways in halting sites to understand Money and certainly not Income, not the issue.

questionmark?

So this is an overcrowded site where families moved onto the site illegally.
The same site that is known for having numerous (allegedly) criminals.
The same site that has piles and I mean piles of rubbish that are too great to be produced by the occupants and are clearly brought in by those living there to be dumped.
Question is here why aren't Tusla looking into the care of the children here as its clearly an unsafe location for children to be raised.

fiachraX

The point above about parental (and personal - some of these children are teenagers) responsibility is a fair one.
According to the RTE report,

"The local authority advised that many of the families would not consider any houses outside of their preferred area, which did not have sufficient housing stock to meet this desire...
The site was originally a sand and gravel quarry, which in 1989 was established by the local authority as an official 10-bay halting site for members of the Traveller community...
It is reported that several families also took up unauthorised residency on the site, some on the bays and others on vacant areas throughout the site. Over the years, overcrowding has become a significant issue, as family growth has resulted in extended families taking up residence on the periphery of the halting site.
The local authority estimated that 38 families now live on site with 66 children between them."

They're Travellers. Surely the whole point is that they can readily move around. It doesn't seem entirely reasonable to take up unauthorized residence in a site that doesn't have room for you and then complain when it doesn't have adequate facilities for you.

"Children were sleeping on makeshift beds cramped into the living/dining spaces".
With all due respect, buy a bigger caravan, take the accommodation you're offered, or keep it zipped up.

"Children were seen to be walking and playing in areas where there was an abundance of rubbish."
So please manage your rubbish. The radio report indicated that the contractors for maintenance and rubbish removal had met with conflict.

"With their parents' permission, several children escorted investigators around to the areas of the site where they play, and showed the route, a shortcut, they take to school.
Investigators observed that due to the water pools in the grassed areas and parts of the roadways, passage through the area can result in muddied shoes and clothing, which the children described as a particular problem in terms of their daily journey to and from school, and which they felt drew negative and unwanted attention from their peers."
So on wet days walk on the official paved path. How much shorter is this shortcut?

They also describe rats (but you'd have to think those are largely attracted by the rubbish) and dampness in the caravans (but my understanding is that the caravans are the property of and maintained by the Travellers, not the local authority).

It seems that most problems could be solved if they didn't overwhelm the site facilities, allowed the local authority contractors to do their work, and took some responsibility themselves.

I've worked with Travellers and, like other folk, some are great, some are awful and some are in between. But these complaints smack badly of entitlement without any sense of personal responsibility, and a good instinct for marketing (the poor childer).

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

A discussion on Current Affairs/ IMHO about travellers can only go one way.

Welcome to Boards.

It might not happen if the likes of RTE weren't always pushing these things from a bleeding hearts angle.

Nothing in the report advocates any responsibility.

Who had the 66 children in the first place?.

As I said on the "Progressive Taxes" thread, we're continuing on a path of increased dependence as we encourage people who pay nothing to have as many kids as they can, who replicate that same issue.

66 kids only emphasises what kind of issues we'll have from this one cohort in twenty years.

Time those in charge looked instead to incentive the likes of those to have no kids and we might see less of the above going forward.

Jerry Attrick

Location (which many of us guessed) is named in the Examiner.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40296665.html

Jerry Attrick

Dempo1 wrote: »

A ligitimate question being asked, It's about another Report that yet again seems not to deal with issues that clearly come under the area of Parental Responsibility or lack of it. These numerous reports are generally very quick to apportion blame and always deflect any notion of personal responsibility. If for example a citizen, not under the the Auspices of Ethnic Minority, sent their children to school unwashed, disheveled looking etc, don't you think the Authorities might be asking some questions of the Parents?? This report mentions absolutely NOTHING about basic parental responsibilities. The argument re low income doesn't wash with me (no pun intended), one only has to look at various driveways in halting sites to understand Money and certainly not Income, not the issue.

The statutory remit of the Ombudsman for Children is to blame everyone but the parents. And, in fairness, it's not the kids' fault that they were born to such parents.

MarkR

The rubbish part was the bit that annoyed me. I don't know who pays for the commercial sized bins they have outside, but they should be cleaning up after themselves. Maybe it's difficult to take pride in your surroundings when they live in the conditions they are in, but short of providing a cleaning service for them, the responsibility should lie with them.

In case anyone says I am generalizing, I'm only talking about the ones that I know and pass often in Limerick. Conditions seem to match the general descriptions in the article.

Fann Linn

It's the residents that are at fault here. Simples really, Ombudsman person & RTE.

griffdaddy

I've said this before to people when reports like this come up - the way that many, many travellers choose to live isn't a cultural choice, it's anti-social, child endangering behaviour. The prejudice arguement doesn't even come into it. Society has progressed. You have to raise your children to certain standards, you have to send them to school, you have to maintain hygiene levels. Living in your own sh1t and getting uppidity when someone calls you out on it is absolute nonsense and it's time a much harder line was taken by the likes of Tulsa, the Gardai and local authorities. Anyone who can't see the difference between this argument and saying something like 'all black people are criminals' is either being deliberately obtuse or is incredibly naive.

TomTomTim

This is like me burning my house down and wanting the state to come in and build me a new one. We're getting into murky waters when people want the state to do everything for them, including fixing problems they've created themselves.

VelaSupernova

Happiness is a choice that requires effort at times.

- Aeschylus, about 1,500 years ago. Times have not changed.

Jerry Attrick

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Location (which many of us guessed) is named in the Examiner.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40296665.html

Yeah a very quick google will give another examiner article from a few months ago that gives a few more interesting details.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40065686.html

"Caretaker intimidated and prevented from doing essential work at Cork halting site"


I have no idea what can be done. Go heavy on them and your a racist who wants to eradicate their culture, go easy on them and the place and the kids lives are in ****e.

This is the back of a halting site in Castletroy, Limerick. It's absolutely disgusting. And they wonder why a lot of these places are infested with rats..

newuser99999

questionmark? wrote: »

Question is here why aren't Tusla looking into the care of the children here as its clearly an unsafe location for children to be raised.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Tusla couldn’t be bothered because they’d be verbally and/or physically assaulted.

They do it to mental health workers all the time making house visits and then wonder why they have such high suicide rates.

Fann Linn

Jacksie66. wrote: »

This is the back of a halting site in Castletroy, Limerick. It's absolutely disgusting. And they wonder why a lot of these places are infested with rats..

And you could replicate that photo from any of their sites throughout the rest of the 32 counties plus sites across the water also.

BrokenArrows

I live in London and used to live near a a halting site here.

The problems of halting sites in Ireland are identical to the problems of halting sites in the UK.

Different governments, different country, same issues.
Drug dealing, storage of scrap waste/any waste, illegal dumping outside the boundary of the sites, raided by police at least twice a year finding stashes of weapons and drugs.

It truly is their culture and there is nothing anyone can do except make that way of life impossible. Providing halting sites doesn't help anyone in the long run.

They need to get with the times and live in houses like normal people. Alternatively buy land a place their caravans on that. The government shouldnt have to fund the lifestyle choices of a minority.

Pussyhands

The usual twitter activists will be saying it's discrimination as usual I suppose.

Kermit.de.frog

Seems like they are trying to blame a life style choice on others.

As usual.

punisher5112

Is it settled or the Amish that are causing this, I always get confused.

If people want to live as they do then they need to take personal responsibility for all their actions, millions thrown at them and they destroyin many cases everything they are given such as housing where they burn them, vandalism, won't allow other travelers move in beside them.....

Dempo1

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

The statutory remit of the Ombudsman for Children is to blame everyone but the parents. And, in fairness, it's not the kids' fault that they were born to such parents.

Good point and I'm certainly not blaming the Kids, astonishing it takes 3 years to come up with a report that deflects yet again Parental Responsibility

Dempo1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Is it settled or the Amish that are causing this, I always get confused.

If people want to live as they do then they need to take personal responsibility for all their actions, millions thrown at them and they destroyin many cases everything they are given such as housing where they burn them, vandalism, won't allow other travelers move in beside them.....

My God, Travellers could learn much from the Amish, I spent 2 months in an Amish community in Pennsylvania and what an eye opener it was, self sufficient, industrious, decent and quite amazing people. Sure they have their problems but certainly don't expect anyone to resolve them but themselves

Kalimah

There’s a halting site a mile or two from me. One of the loveliest spots in South Co Dublin near the mountains. The place is destroyed. Roofs half pulled off, rubbish and bits of God knows what all over the place.
What kills me is that the best of materials have gone into those houses and they’re in bits. If I pulled the roof off my house I’d be left with it. Not these guys - probably will be sorted out by the council if they can get access to the place without being intimidated.
The way I see it is- behave like a responsible member of society and you’ll benefit from it. If you don’t want to do that, sort yourself out and stop making life difficult for the rest of us.

b0nk1e

b0nk1e wrote: »

I wonder how all the rubbish got onto the halting site, it's a complete mystery how that might have occurred.

Thats an easy answer. It was the fairies.

Jerry Attrick

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Yeah a very quick google will give another examiner article from a few months ago that gives a few more interesting details.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40065686.html

"Caretaker intimidated and prevented from doing essential work at Cork halting site"


I have no idea what can be done. Go heavy on them and your a racist who wants to eradicate their culture, go easy on them and the place and the kids lives are in ****e.

We lost the battle along time ago. They and their uniquely cultural way of life will endure and we will continue to pick up the bills while being condemned as racists.

However, looking on the bright side, we now have a Travellers' Rights senator (yee-haw!) and the proud history of Traveller Culture is in the process of being added to the school curriculum. I feel truly uplifted by these progressive developments.

punisher5112

Kalimah wrote: »

There’s a halting site a mile or two from me. One of the loveliest spots in South Co Dublin near the mountains. The place is destroyed. Roofs half pulled off, rubbish and bits of God knows what all over the place.
What kills me is that the best of materials have gone into those houses and they’re in bits. If I pulled the roof off my house I’d be left with it. Not these guys - probably will be sorted out by the council if they can get access to the place without being intimidated.
The way I see it is- behave like a responsible member of society and you’ll benefit from it. If you don’t want to do that, sort yourself out and stop making life difficult for the rest of us.

Nutgrove I guess, they burnt one, it was fixed up, they done it again, they as you say took roof off another and stripped it, they have a thing against letting another traveller family in so it will most likely stay that way....

Huge improvement to years ago though as the space they had was downsized, they would burn rubbish day and night, toxic tyre etc.... They would charge for removal, vans go in and burn it or just dump it and council would go in every so often to clean up. If I recall there was 7 or 8 houses and all but 2 were destroyed.

Gunmonkey

TomTomTim wrote: »

This is like me burning my house down and wanting the state to come in and build me a new one. We're getting into murky waters when people want the state to do everything for them, including fixing problems they've created themselves.

99.999999999% chance its this. This group probably looking for the Gov to buy/build a nice 30 house estate to house them all in (with appropriate stables for de horsies, obviously).

Kalimah

punisher5112 wrote: »

Nutgrove I guess, they burnt one, it was fixed up, they done it again, they as you say took roof off another and stripped it, they have a thing against letting another traveller family in so it will most likely stay that way....

Huge improvement to years ago though as the space they had was downsized, they would burn rubbish day and night, toxic tyre etc.... They would charge for removal, vans go in and burn it or just dump it and council would go in every so often to clean up. If I recall there was 7 or 8 houses and all but 2 were destroyed.

Not Nutgrove- it’s Stocking Avenue but Nutgrove is exactly the same. I pass it regularly.

suicide_circus

I know this is the fault of the state and settled people, i'm just not sure how

punisher5112

suicide_circus wrote: »

I know this is the fault of the state and settled people, i'm just not sure how

Pandering to them and the NGOs in my opinion.....

Atlantic Dawn

Why can't they name the site? RTE regularly do news items on places like O'Devaney Gardens highlighting dampness, mould and rats, where children also live, do traveller children have special status?

suicide_circus

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why can't they name the site? RTE regularly do news items on places like O'Devaney Gardens highlighting dampness, mould and rats, where children also live, do traveller children have special status?

They literally do.

SEPT 23 1989

hopefully they can rehome the rats

no animal should have to live like that:(

Fann Linn

Listening to the whining here on RTE and no questions being asked re their responsibilities.

Chavez.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

hopefully they can rehome the rats

no animal should have to live like that:(

Will you take them

KrustyUCC

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why can't they name the site? RTE regularly do news items on places like O'Devaney Gardens highlighting dampness, mould and rats, where children also live, do traveller children have special status?

It's named on the Examiner website

It's a fairly infamous halting site in Cork

Been issues there for years

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40253195.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30731240.html

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40139042.html

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-examiner/20190130/281517932348288

RTE now having traveller representative on to talk about the shocking report on the news at 1

KrustyUCC

KrustyUCC wrote: »

RTE now having traveller representative on to talk about the shocking report on the news at 1

Any comment on the intimidation of the council caretaker that the Examiner also reported a few months ago and that I linked earlier?

gw80

I suspect this report will be waved in front of some European officials in Brussels and ireland will be charged with mistreatment of minorities.

suicide_circus

KrustyUCC wrote: »

RTE now having traveller representative on to talk about the shocking report on the news at 1

Wonder if any tough questions will be asked

Immortal Starlight

Why can’t the group of fully grown able bodied men and women that live in the halting site pick up their own rubbish. Why can’t their children avoid walking in muddy puddles going to school. It’s not rocket science is it.

Dempo1

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why can't they name the site? RTE regularly do news items on places like O'Devaney Gardens highlighting dampness, mould and rats, where children also live, do traveller children have special status?

They need to control the narrative, add a bit of suspense, controversy and mystery etc. It hadn't occurred to me that it was a Traveller Advocacy group that contacted the Children's ombudsman who in turn spent 3 years coming up with another blame game report , curious this very group didn't contact Tusla if they were so concerned about the wellbeing of Traveller children.

KrustyUCC

Fann Linn wrote: »

Listening to the whining here on RTE and no questions being asked re their responsibilities.

Come now couldn't ask hard questions

The rats problem should be thrown back at the representative straight away

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30902953.html

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40142996.html