Is it time Ireland considered having a new capital city?

Swindled

Moved from current affairs . . .

Is it time Ireland considered some lateral thinking and considered having a new capital city ?

The capital city of the a country does not have to be the largest / most populous, and often isn't.

Dublin is currently under pressure in terms of population vs resources.

I like Dublin, it's a good city overall, but it doesn't have to be the capital, and not being the capital would do it no harm.

Also Ireland has always been traditionally ruled by Leinster. No harm to the Leinster Government and Leinster Civil Service (the permanent government) but it does it have much interest in the rest of Ireland ? or much knowledge about life outside Leinster and the problems / solutions therein ?

For example the Leinster powers that be, and their media, like to call the rest of Ireland "rural Ireland" as if it's all a special conservation area and national park, the Austrian outback, or the Shetland Islands instead of largely consisting of large towns, villages and densely populated non urban areas.

Would having a Capital elsewhere, more neutral outlook, and in touch with the rest of the country be of help ? Perhaps even a brand new city, specifically designed and constructed for the purpose ? Perhaps it could even help bring about an actual united Ireland ?

Anyways, some food for thought . . . let the food fighting commence . . .

Timberrrrrrrr

You want to build a new city.....in Ireland?


Where would you locate it?

How many people would live there?

Would you build the airport first? The housing? The office blocks? Would there be a port?

piplip87

Swindled wrote: »

Moved from current affairs . . .

Is it time Ireland considered some lateral thinking and considered having a new capital city ?

The capital city of the a country does not have to be the largest / most populous, and often isn't.

Dublin is currently under pressure in terms of population vs resources.

I like Dublin, it's a good city overall, but it doesn't have to be the capital, and not being the capital would do it no harm.

Also Ireland has always been traditionally ruled by Leinster. No harm to the Leinster Government and Leinster Civil Service (the permanent government) but it does it have much interest in the rest of Ireland ? or much knowledge about life outside Leinster and the problems / solutions therein ?

For example the Leinster powers that be, and their media, like to call the rest of Ireland "rural Ireland" as if it's all a special conservation area and national park, the Austrian outback, or the Shetland Islands instead of largely consisting of large towns, villages and densely populated non urban areas.

Would having a Capital elsewhere, more neutral outlook, and in touch with the rest of the country be of help ? Perhaps even a brand new city, specifically designed and constructed for the purpose ? Perhaps it could even help bring about an actual united Ireland ?

Anyways, some food for thought . . . let the food fighting commence . . .

The Leinster Government - Made up of TDS and Senators from every county in Ireland.

The Leinster Civil Service - Again made up of people from every part of Ireland ..

Swindled

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You want to build a new city.....in Ireland?


Where would you locate it?

How many,people would live there?

Would you build the,airport first? The housing? The office blocks? Would there be a port?

New cities have been proposed for Ireland in the past.
It doesn't have to be a new city, could be an existing one.

banie01

Put in Athlone with that fabled free trade zone!

Honestly tho?
It's a question to be considered post any reunification

ILoveYourVibes

The capital city of the a country does not have to be the largest / most populous, and often isn't.

In a small country it really does.

The population of cork is only 120k.

Timberrrrrrrr

Swindled wrote: »

New cities have been proposed for Ireland in the past.
It doesn't have to be a new city, could be an existing one.

Well you did say

Perhaps even a brand new city, specifically designed and constructed for the purpose ?

But let's say it's an existing one, which city would you propose that would be a better option than Dublin?

MarkR

So Dublin is full, time to get a new one?

How Soon Is Now

So basically this would have no actual benefit to anyone in Ireland other than culchies thinking they're getting one over on Dublin?

RealJohn

banie01 wrote: »

Put in Athlone with that fabled free trade zone!

Honestly tho?
It's a question to be considered post any reunification

It might be more palatable to the unionists if the government wasn’t in Dublin, even if it was only a token gesture. I suggest Monaghan Town, because most politicians deserve that.

ForestFire

May I suggest Waterford city (first and oldest city in ireland) as the new capital.....


We cannot get a university...
We cannot get 24 cardiac care...
Airport is all but lost....
We cannot win an all Ireland...

We cannot even get a shopping centre...for God sake...

But maybe we've been aiming too low to all this time....

The "NEW capital of Ireland" could be just the project that will succeed.....or wait.....maybe not.....carry on...

ILoveYourVibes

TBH you have to bear in mind when most people COME to Dublin from another country ..they already think its too small for a capital city.

Being a dub ..i don't make claims that Dublin is a spectacularly large and cosmopolitan populous European capital. Its not. But its got the biggest population and concentration of services.

TBH i wish people would stop moving here its getting too hard to get anywhere to live.

Swindled

piplip87 wrote: »

The Leinster Government - Made up of TDS and Senators from every county in Ireland.

The Leinster Civil Service - Again made up of people from every part of Ireland ..

The Leinster Civil service (the permanent government) outnumber non Leinster TD's considerably. The vast majority work/live in Leinster, and Leinster is their primary interest.

spitonmedickie

Comes up periodically. If we've not done it by now and it's not something envisaged in the National Planning Framework can't see it happening. This book has an account of some of the other suggestions https://books.google.ie/books?id=cUCtBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT71&lpg=PT71&dq=gaelic+brasilia+planning+sense+of+place&source=bl&ots=Pj6j4lov2N&sig=ACfU3U0g_yJB3KV3EHHFUfcJntIeGVsnKA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU5ImlueDwAhWITxUIHa14CGoQ6AEwFXoECCkQAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

Swindled

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

So basically this would have no actual benefit to anyone in Ireland other than culchies thinking they're getting one over on Dublin?

Why is anyone who's not a Dubliner described in derogatory terms ?

El Tarangu

While it's an interesting idea, you would face the same problem that the Government faced last time that they tried decentralisation: a lot of the more senior civil servants, who would already have kids in schools, etc, wouldn't go. So you would be faced with a huge loss of institutional memory if it did go ahead.

banie01 wrote: »

Put in Athlone with that fabled free trade zone!

I do think that capital city in the dead centre of the island does have a nice symmetry to it...

ILoveYourVibes

Swindled wrote: »

Why is anyone who's not a Dubliner described in derogatory terms ?

Culchie is short for cultured.

I dont doubt some dubs think they are more sophisticated than people from outside. Needless to say they are very wrong.

We are really a big town in Dublin.

How Soon Is Now

Swindled wrote: »

Why is anyone who's not a Dubliner described in derogatory terms ?

The same reason most of Dublin is labelled a scumbag or a junkie.

Archeron

Muff, Muff, Muff!!!

Swindled

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

TBH you have to bear in mind when most people COME to Dublin from another country ..they already think its too small for a capital city.

Being a dub ..i don't make claims that Dublin is a spectacularly large and cosmopolitan populous European capital. Its not. But its got the biggest population and concentration of services.

TBH i wish people would stop moving here its getting too hard to get anywhere to live.

See this is it, I like Dublin and the real Dubliner, but the overconcentration is not doing Dublin or anyone any favours.

Swindled

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

The same reason most of Dublin is labelled a scumbag or a junkie.

It isn't, give me a real working class Dubliner any day over the snobs there. Good decent fun people.

ILoveYourVibes

Swindled wrote: »

See this is it, I like Dublin and the real Dubliner, but the overconcentration is not doing Dublin or anyone any favours.

Indeed.

At the same time I understand people come here BECAUSE of the concentration. Or opportunity etc or education.

It feels like services are spread thin. I'm sure the lack of development outside Dublin makes people feel the same.

Muff, Muff, Muff!!!

I take back everything. Muff is our new capital. :pac:

Gatling

Sorry cork it's not happening

ILoveYourVibes

Swindled wrote: »

It isn't, give me a real working class Dubliner any day over the snobs there.

There is a lot of Dublin (and yes old old south dublin) that is in between.

odyssey06

Is there any other country of comparable size where the capital isnt the main city?

Its not going to happen.

Pawwed Rig

I suggest Bastardstown in Wexford as the location of our new capital.

spitonmedickie

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is there any other country of comparable size where the capital isnt the main city?

Its not going to happen.

Netherlands.

Swindled

odyssey06 wrote: »

Its not going to happen.

Probably not, like a United Ireland, but it's interesting to discuss / consider.

Swindled

RealJohn wrote: »

It might be more palatable to the unionists if the government wasn’t in Dublin, even if it was only a token gesture. I suggest Monaghan Town, because most politicians deserve that.

Best answer so far :pac:

ILoveYourVibes

spitonmedickie wrote: »

Netherlands.

Nope they have 2 capitals offically. And Amsterdam is one.

The princes of orange historically kept the Hague as a seat of power.

It would be like if we had a united Ireland and decided belfast was the other capital along with dublin.

RandomViewer

I propose Muff, it perfectly straddles what was the border in a new United Ireland and will raise a smile when mentioned internationally

ILoveYourVibes

Swindled wrote: »

Best answer so far :pac:

In my experience it wouldn't matter a jot to unionists.

El Tarangu

spitonmedickie wrote: »

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is there any other country of comparable size where the capital isnt the main city?

Its not going to happen.

Netherlands.

Scotland also

odyssey06

spitonmedickie wrote: »

Netherlands.

Population 18 million though, formed from 12 previously self-governing provinces with a royal family and once in charge of a global empire.

New Zealand is one of the few countries of comparable population without a history of decentralized\federal type government where the capital and largest city are separate. The capital was moved to Wellington to forestall possible push towards separation by South Island.

So realistically the only time the capital here will move would be in a united Ireland to Belfast.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

Population 18 million though, formed from 12 previously self-governing provinces with a royal family and once in charge of a global empire.

New Zealand is one of the few countries of comparable population without a history of decentralized\federal type government where the capital and largest city are separate. The capital was moved to Wellington to forestall possible push towards separation by South Island.

So realistically the only time the capital here will move would be in a united Ireland to Belfast.

Considering where most of the trouble would be, probably be the best shout to get as much funding for the police force as possible by moving the countries administration up there.

odyssey06

El Tarangu wrote: »

Scotland also

Interesting... but for a long time they had no capital so they had a free choice to a certain extent to revert to their historic capital, plus it's not a full capital city of a state.

kub

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In a small country it really does.

The population of cork is only 120k.

Which part of Cork city is that ?


The entire Cork City was indeed that, but that was years ago.

Swindled

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In my experience it wouldn't matter a jot to unionists.

I was referring to the deserve bit

Swindled

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In a small country it really does.

Why ?

Burt Renaults

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is there any other country of comparable size where the capital isnt the main city?

Its not going to happen.

Not a country of comparable size, but Australia is a good example of a country where the capital is not the main city. In terms of population, Canberra is only the eighth largest city in the country. A soulless shithole, by all accounts, built as a compromise because they couldn't decide whether Sydney or Melbourne should be the capital.

Dave_The_Sheep

I feel stupider for having read this thread.

OneEightSeven

I was pondering about this myself a few months ago. Looking at the Pobal Deprivation map, the most affluent areas are mostly located in or near Limerick, Cork, Galway and Dublin. The wealth from cities is distributed out to commuter towns, but since Dublin is hugging the coast, that limits the number of commuter towns that can enjoy the city's wealth. If Dublin was located in the centre of the island would allow its wealth to be distributed across a wider breadth of the country.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

It's 2021 - we could have a distributed, virtual capital.

Mehapoy

This was the point of the decentralization program that people were proposing and FF/ Charlie McGreevy proposed around 98/99, that's before Fianna Fail reverted to type and realised they could buy every electorate across the country with placing bits of the civil service here and there in every 2 bit town and get their mates in on the action with hefty government contracts.

quickbeam

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Nope they have 2 capitals offically. And Amsterdam is one.

The princes of orange historically kept the Hague as a seat of power.

It would be like if we had a united Ireland and decided belfast was the other capital along with dublin.

Not quite. Netherlands has only one capital (Amsterdam). But the seat of government isn't there, it's in The Hague which isn't the capital.

McGinniesta

Swindled wrote: »

Moved from current affairs . . .

Is it time Ireland considered some lateral thinking and considered having a new capital city ?

The capital city of the a country does not have to be the largest / most populous, and often isn't.

Dublin is currently under pressure in terms of population vs resources.

I like Dublin, it's a good city overall, but it doesn't have to be the capital, and not being the capital would do it no harm.

Also Ireland has always been traditionally ruled by Leinster. No harm to the Leinster Government and Leinster Civil Service (the permanent government) but it does it have much interest in the rest of Ireland ? or much knowledge about life outside Leinster and the problems / solutions therein ?

For example the Leinster powers that be, and their media, like to call the rest of Ireland "rural Ireland" as if it's all a special conservation area and national park, the Austrian outback, or the Shetland Islands instead of largely consisting of large towns, villages and densely populated non urban areas.

Would having a Capital elsewhere, more neutral outlook, and in touch with the rest of the country be of help ? Perhaps even a brand new city, specifically designed and constructed for the purpose ? Perhaps it could even help bring about an actual united Ireland ?

Anyways, some food for thought . . . let the food fighting commence . . .

You're right that the largest city doesn't need to be the capital city.

The most obvious example is Washington D.C.

However, Washington houses all the government buildings as does every other capital city (or at least the very significant majority, I'm sure that there may be exceptions).

A lot of countries will be sub-divided.

In ireland, we have our provinces, county towns and local councils.

In the U.K, they have a similar system. The nine major regions further subdivided into counties.

Swiss Cantons,

U.S States.

To move Dublin as the Capital city would be such a pain in the arse that it wouldn't be worth the effort.

murpho999

spitonmedickie wrote: »

Netherlands.

Amsterdam is the largest city and it its capital.

Den Haag is where the government and parliament is located but it is not the capital but many people cannot seem to grasp this.

murpho999

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Nope they have 2 capitals offically. And Amsterdam is one.

The princes of orange historically kept the Hague as a seat of power.

It would be like if we had a united Ireland and decided belfast was the other capital along with dublin.

Sorry this is wrong, Netherlands does not have 2 capitals. Amsterdam is the capital and that's the end of it.

jimgoose

Dublin's a wake gomie misfortchun of a cit-AAAAHH - Limerick for capital, kiiiiiiid. :cool:

View

murpho999 wrote: »

Amsterdam is the largest city and it its capital.

Den Haag is where the government and parliament is located but it is not the capital but many people cannot seem to grasp this.

The capital is where the government and parliament of a country are located. That’s what defines what a capital is.

The Dutch recently declaring Amsterdam to be the “capital” was just political populism to keep Amsterdammers happy. It didn’t alter the fact that the day-to-day business of a capital was, and is, still carried out in The Hague.

quickbeam

View wrote: »

The capital is where the government and parliament of a country are located. That’s what defines what a capital is.

The Dutch recently declaring Amsterdam to be the “capital” was just political populism to keep Amsterdammers happy. It didn’t alter the fact that the day-to-day business of a capital was, and is, still carried out in The Hague.

From Wiki:

A capital or capital city is the municipality holding primary status in a department, country, state, province, or other administrative region, usually as its seat of the government.

So "usually" but not always. Amsterdam is the capital. The Hague is not.