Why Does it Cost More to Build a House in Dublin than Other Counties?

Marius34

Marius34 wrote: »

Because its absolutely false information that land in cities are same value as outside urban areas.
And he keeps repeating this nonsense.

If I own a site in Dublin, outright.
And I own a site in Leitrim, outright.
Can I get a house built for the same price on either site? If not, why not?

Marius34

Marius34 wrote: »

Probably not, I'm not an expert in building costs in different locations, won't tell you why. But I can tell you with confidence that same size Dublin site is much more expensive, than Leitrim, it ridiculous to think otherwise.
And if you want to sell that land in Leitrim and Dublin, would you sell it for the same price? if not, why not?

But I own both the sites. Outright.
Now I'm looking to build a house on both.
Does it cost the same? If not, why not?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

But I own both the sites. Outright.
Now I'm looking to build a house on both.
Does it cost the same? If not, why not?

Why not put it to the test and apply for planning for the same type of house on both sites.

I recently built a house not far from Dublin and gave the plans to 4 builders for tender. There were substantial differences between bids, the highest being from a builder based in Dublin. Make of that what you will.

Marius34

bubblypop wrote: »

But I own both the sites. Outright.
Now I'm looking to build a house on both.
Does it cost the same? If not, why not?

I was contradicting market/sale price, not construction cost. I answered your question, that I'm not sure about construction costs in different locations, I would need to find contractors in both locations, I think in Dublin would charge me more.
But again, I was arguing about land value, not construction costs. It's ridiculous to think that land in Leitrim and Dublin cost same.
And you haven't answered if you would sell same size of land in Leitrim and Dublin for the same price? and if not, why not?

Marius34

Marius34 wrote: »

I was contradicting market/sale price, not construction cost. I answered your question, that I'm not sure about construction costs in different locations, I would need to find contractors in both locations, I think in Dublin would charge me more.
But again, I was arguing about land value, not construction costs. It's ridiculous to think that land in Leitrim and Dublin cost same.
And you haven't answered if you would sell same size of land in Leitrim and Dublin for the same price? and if not, why not?

I'm not making a point about land cost, I'm making a point about construction costs.
Everyone knows land is more expensive in dublin.
But if land is already in someones possession, the council, for example, then land costs don't come into construction costs.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not making a point about land cost, I'm making a point about construction costs.
Everyone knows land is more expensive in dublin.
But if land is already in someones possession, the council, for example, then land costs don't come into construction costs.

Are you talking about materials costs, or what a builder charges to build the house?

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Are you talking about materials costs, or what a builder charges to build the house?

The cost.
The cost to build the house.
I own the land. How much to build the house.
One house in leitrim, one house in Dublin.

Marius34

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not making a point about land cost, I'm making a point about construction costs.
Everyone knows land is more expensive in dublin.
But if land is already in someones possession, the council, for example, then land costs don't come into construction costs.

And here is my point, that not everyone, at least not Props. I was not discussing about council, but private sector.

Marius34 wrote: »

I'm not sure how this is still related to Cairn Home price decrease.
In short, regular land around small towns are cheaper, than in the cities, all around the world. Based on economic fundamentals due to Demands/Supplies. If you ask again kids style question "Why", I consider that you are trolling by now.

PropQueries wrote: »

It can’t be land costs.

The price difference between Co. Dublin and Co. Wexford obviously has got near nothing to do with economic fundamentals

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

The cost.
The cost to build the house.
I own the land. How much to build the house.
One house in leitrim, one house in Dublin.

It is not unreasonable to expect the cost of building to reflect what builders charge in different parts of the country. A builder will get a QS to price materials, then the builder adds their charge on top. I would suspect that builders and contractors have a lower cost of living in Leitrim than in Dublin and that as house prices are lower, tender costs reflect that also.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

It is not unreasonable to expect the cost of building to reflect what builders charge in different parts of the country. A builder will get a QS to price materials, then the builder adds their charge on top. I would suspect that builders and contractors have a lower cost of living in Leitrim than in Dublin and that as house prices are lower, tender costs reflect that also.

But why would they charge more in different parts of the country?
And what difference does it make where they live?
I work in Dublin but people that do my job in the country are paid the same as me.

Ace2007

bubblypop wrote: »

But why would they charge more in different parts of the country?
And what difference does it make where they live?
I work in Dublin but people that do my job in the country are paid the same as me.

Well that's just in your sector, in construction and in many professional roles it's not like that - here's a salary guide from a random recruitment company. You can see the Dublin salaries compared with the rest of the country, and that the salaries in Dublin are higher

https://www.brightwater.ie/docs/default-source/surveys/salary-survey/2020/brightwater-salary-survey-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=79138276_8

An Architect for instance is on 10k more in Dublin than in rest of the country - so he's call all rates to do plans will be higher.
The upper end of basically every construction role is higher in Dublin than the rest of the country.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

But why would they charge more in different parts of the country?
And what difference does it make where they live?
I work in Dublin but people that do my job in the country are paid the same as me.

Builders have scope to price jobs based on what they believe their labour is worth, employees rarely have that privilege.

A 4 bed 1600 sqft house may sell for €160k in Leitrim and €500k in Dublin, do you think a builder does not know this?

A builder in Leitrim may clear €70k on a house in Leitrim and that may cover the cost of living there, but in Dublin a builder, and by extension contractors/labourers may need/want more than that for the same job. Therefore it is not unreasonable to expect differences in pricing.

From a logistical viewpoint, I suspect working on sites in rural areas may be easier and also by extension cheaper than in built up urban areas. There is also demand to be considered, there may be more demand for construction workers in Dublin than in rural areas. It would be interesting to see how many planning applications there are for one off housing in Leitrim compared to the number of building projects in Dublin. Demand pushes prices up.

Ace2007

Ace2007 wrote: »

Well that's just in your sector, in construction and in many professional roles it's not like that - here's a salary guide from a random recruitment company. You can see the Dublin salaries compared with the rest of the country, and that the salaries in Dublin are higher

https://www.brightwater.ie/docs/default-source/surveys/salary-survey/2020/brightwater-salary-survey-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=79138276_8

An Architect for instance is on 10k more in Dublin than in rest of the country - so he's call all rates to do plans will be higher.
The upper end of basically every construction role is higher in Dublin than the rest of the country.

Just because Dublin.
No reason as such, just because Dublin adds costs onto everything.
so what is the reason?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Just because Dublin.
No reason as such, just because Dublin adds costs onto everything.
so what is the reason?

Are you asking why prices of commodities and services are higher in cities compared to rural areas? Surely if you live in Dublin you have noticed this phenomenon daily in other purchases. Perhaps it could be summed up with, the costs of living and doing business are higher in cities than in rural areas, so prices often reflect that.

Ace2007

bubblypop wrote: »

Just because Dublin.
No reason as such, just because Dublin adds costs onto everything.
so what is the reason?

You asked why more expensive, i told you salaries are higher- provided you with back up from a random recruitment survey, and yet you ask what the reason is?

Very troll like - ignore the answer and ask the question again.

I don't even know what your trying to achieve with your question.

Why is bed and breakfast in Letrim cheaper than in Killarney? They are both offering the same service????

Bass Reeves

bubblypop wrote: »

But I own both the sites. Outright.
Now I'm looking to build a house on both.
Does it cost the same? If not, why not?

If I go into a fast food restaurant in Leitrim I get a quarter pounder meal for 5-6 euro. If I go into a fast food restaurant in Dublin it probably nearer a tenner.

How come its not the same.. As well the chip portion in Leitrim will be larger and the coke will be a can of Coca Cola can as opposed to s cup filled with ice.

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If I go into a fast food restaurant in Leitrim I get a quarter pounder meal for 5-6 euro. If I go into a fast food restaurant in Dublin it probably nearer a tenner.

How come its not the same.. As well the chip portion in Leitrim will be larger and the coke will be a can of Coca Cola can as opposed to s cup filled with ice.

That's not true. It will cost the same. If it is the same fast food restaurant,it will be exactly the same, drink and everything.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

That's not true. It will cost the same. If it is the same fast food restaurant,it will be exactly the same, drink and everything.

Exactly, if it is the same restaurant. That is unlikely to be true of independent restaurants.

Similarly the builders in Dublin and Leitrim are not the same builders and do not advertise the same fixed price. “Why” you may ask, because as independent businesses they can ask what they feel their labour is worth, because their labour costs are higher, because it costs more to live in Dublin, because they may be in greater demand, and maybe because they just want more profit because the property will be worth more to the owner when finished.

It is hard to imagine that anyone who lives in a city has not experienced higher prices compared to rural living.

Cyrus

Dav010 wrote: »

It is hard to imagine that anyone who lives in a city has not experienced higher prices compared to rural living.

Indeed

Same way a cleaner will cost more, an accountant, a solicitor.

Anyone suggesting otherwise is being deliberately perfidious.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

It is hard to imagine that anyone who lives in a city has not experienced higher prices compared to rural living.

If course I have experienced higher prices, I have lived in Dublin since 1993.
The point is that most things are just more expensive because that's what they can get away with.
Obviously I'm not talking about places that have overheads such as rents, rates etc.

For example, let's say there is a builder, based in Meath, he will, most probably charge me more to do work in Dublin then he will if he does the same work in Cavan, don't you think?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

If course I have experienced higher prices, I have lived in Dublin since 1993.
The point is that most things are just more expensive because that's what they can get away with.
Obviously I'm not talking about places that have overheads such as rents, rates etc.

For example, let's say there is a builder, based in Meath, he will, most probably charge me more to do work in Dublin then he will if he does the same work in Cavan, don't you think?

I don’t know. But a builder living in Dublin is likely to have more overheads than one in Leitrim, certainly that would apply to mortgages/living, and labour costs. And you are right, maybe builders can get away with charging more in Dublin as they know their skills are in demand and that the finished house is worth more than in Leitrim.

Unlike a McDonalds burger which may be priced the same no matter where you buy, or a public service job where you are paid the same no matter where you live, independent contractors whose labour is in demand due to shortages or their superior skills, can charge what they like and whatever the market will bare.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t know. But a builder living in Dublin is likely to have more overheads than one in Leitrim, certainly that would apply to mortgages/living, and labour costs.

Yes, but that wasn't the question.
I am well aware that things cost more in Dublin, like I said, I'm here since 93.
But even when costs are not an issue, they will charge more , just because they can.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Yes, but that wasn't the question.
I am well aware that things cost more in Dublin, like I said, I'm here since 93.
But even when costs are not an issue, they will charge more , just because they can.

Exactly, as private businesses, they can charge what they like.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Exactly, as private businesses, they can charge what they like.

Yep. Exactly.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep. Exactly.

That took a long time.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

That took a long time.

Just backs up what I said, they can and do charge more in Dublin, just because they can.
Nothing to do with costs.
So, as a poster already stated here, if sisk builders can build a house for approx 200K in the countryside, they can also build the same house for the same price in Dublin.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Just backs up what I said, they can and do charge more in Dublin, just because they can.
Nothing to do with costs.
So, as a poster already stated here, if sisk builders can build a house for approx 200K in the countryside, they can also build the same house for the same price in Dublin.

Just a moment, in your post above you said “if costs are not an issue”, costs are an issue, material costs may be relatively constant through out the country, but the costs of labour and the Builder’s living costs are not, as you well know. So you are cherry picking some parts of posts to suit your viewpoint. But yes, builders can charge whatever they think the client will pay.

TheSheriff

bubblypop wrote: »

Just backs up what I said, they can and do charge more in Dublin, just because they can.
Nothing to do with costs.
So, as a poster already stated here, if sisk builders can build a house for approx 200K in the countryside, they can also build the same house for the same price in Dublin.

From reading the previous points, I don't believe that's what was proven at all.

Villa05

Ace2007 wrote:

If property investment funds didn't exist - then that is one less growth asset that is available for pension schemes - the majority of Irish people have no idea what their DB/DC pension funds are invested in, they might think oh it's a default - and not realize that there is property funds within the default growth funds for instance. So while a large number of people complain about it - they are oblivious to the fact that their pension may be invested in those funds.

So what, your pension is the most diversified investment product on the market, or at least should be

Cyrus wrote:

Same way a cleaner will cost more, an accountant, a solicitor.

I'd doubt if a cleaner is being paid much more in Dublin compared to Limerick for example

Rent allowance and Family income supplement makes up the difference
Yet another example of how unaffordable property is a drain on the state

Villa05

Villa05 wrote: »

I'd doubt if a cleaner is being paid much more in Dublin compared to Limerick for example

Rent allowance and Family income supplement makes up the difference
Yet another example of how unaffordable property is a drain on the state

That is a rather tenuous connection. People on near minimum wage jobs have always struggled to buy properties in cities and it is hardly unusual for countries to have policies in place to help those who need assistance in getting accommodation.

domrush

bubblypop wrote: »

Just backs up what I said, they can and do charge more in Dublin, just because they can.
Nothing to do with costs.
So, as a poster already stated here, if sisk builders can build a house for approx 200K in the countryside, they can also build the same house for the same price in Dublin.

Some reasons why a builder would charge less in rural areas compared to Dublin:
1. Cost of living is lower eg lower rent. That means the tradespeople on site require lower wages to support the same lifestyle.
2. Less competition for jobs. Tradespeople in cities tend to be very busy, and can charge extra due to the higher demand for their skills.
3. Noise pollution is less of an issue. This allows the builders to work longer days and fit more jobs into the year.
4. Suppliers outside Dublin for the larger materials are easier to access and often closer e.g quarries. Ease of access to sites makes a delivery of blocks quicker. Being closer reduces delivery costs as well.
5. Building is less awkward in lower density areas. Ease of access to site again, but also more storage nearby. Also less road blockage, less subterranean services to navigate.

Cyrus

Villa05 wrote: »

So what, your pension is the most diversified investment product on the market, or at least should be




I'd doubt if a cleaner is being paid much more in Dublin compared to Limerick for example

Rent allowance and Family income supplement makes up the difference
Yet another example of how unaffordable property is a drain on the state

I'm referring to a domestic cleaner someone that comes to your house 3 hours a week not a salaried commercial cleaner.

TheSheriff

TheSheriff wrote: »

From reading the previous points, I don't believe that's what was proven at all.

So you don't think the Meath builder will charge me more for work in Dublin rather then Cavan?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So you don't think the Meath builder will charge me more for work in Dublin rather then Cavan?

They may, and as the Builder is an independent trader, they are entitled to quote you what they think you will pay. Free enterprise, it’s a bitch.

TheSheriff

bubblypop wrote: »

So you don't think the Meath builder will charge me more for work in Dublin rather then Cavan?

I am not sure what point you are trying to prove here?

Of course the Meath builder will charge you more for work in Dublin rather than Cavan.

As pointed out several times, this increased cost of work in Dublin is likely justified with the builders increased cost for conducting work in a capital city in combination with the free market.

Not sure where you are going with this; there is no reality where a capital city project should cost the same as a rural project. This is head in the sky stuff.

TheSheriff

TheSheriff wrote: »

I am not sure what point you are trying to prove here?

Of course the Meath builder will charge you more for work in Dublin rather than Cavan.

As pointed out several times, this increased cost of work in Dublin is likely justified with the builders increased cost for conducting work in a capital city in combination with the free market.

Not sure where you are going with this; there is no reality where a capital city project should cost the same as a rural project. This is head in the sky stuff.

You seem to be completely missing the point!
What increased costs are there for a Meath builder doing work in Dublin as opposed to doing the same work in Cavan?
They can charge whatever They want, and they do. The point is, if they can build a house for 200K in the countryside, then they can build the same house in Dublin for 299K.

Bass Reeves

bubblypop wrote: »

That's not true. It will cost the same. If it is the same fast food restaurant,it will be exactly the same, drink and everything.

No they do not costs the same. Invidual restaurants with group chains charge different prices similar to Centra and SuperValu's. They are independent operators using a franchise. Franchise owners cannot set prices as it's generally seen anti compeditive. They may at times set headline prices

https://www.corkbeo.ie/culture/food-drink/cheapest-most-expensive-mcdonalds-restaurants-16064095

As well smaller independent fast food restaurants will more often have larger portion sizes of chips/ fries and give you a can instead of a cup

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

You seem to be completely missing the point!
What increased costs are there for a Meath builder doing work in Dublin as opposed to doing the same work in Cavan?
They can charge whatever They want, and they do. The point is, if they can build a house for 200K in the countryside, then they can build the same house in Dublin for 299K.

You are asking how free enterprise works and why some traders charge more than others. In reality, you nor I have any way of knowing how the Builder arrives at their quote outside of knowing that it is material costs plus labour. What the Builder charges for their labour is no more quantifiable than what your barber/hairdresser charges for his/her labour. Constantly asking why one person puts a higher value on their service than another is futile, because it is their personal decision. All you can do as a purchaser is compare prices and quality, then decide if the higher price is worth it.

I’m not going to say anymore about the costs of building in Dublin v Leitrim/Cavan, this has been explained to you clearly by a number of posters.

Bass Reeves

bubblypop wrote: »

You seem to be completely missing the point!
What increased costs are there for a Meath builder doing work in Dublin as opposed to doing the same work in Cavan?
They can charge whatever They want, and they do. The point is, if they can build a house for 200K in the countryside, then they can build the same house in Dublin for 299K.

The Meath builder is unlikely to get the job in Cavan. A Cavan builder will undercut him.on price as the job is local. The Meath builder if looking for work not local to him will price Jobs in Dublin as he can recover his extra costs associated with time and labour in that market

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The Meath builder is unlikely to get the job in Cavan. A Cavan builder will undercut him.on price as the job is local. The Meath builder if looking for work not local to him will price Jobs in Dublin as he can recover his extra costs associated with time and labour in that market

Allegedly, Cavan people might be a little more difficult to negotiate a price with. 😜

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m not going to say anymore about the costs of building in Dublin v Leitrim/Cavan, this has been explained to you clearly by a number of posters.

The only explanation is that they can charge more because they feel like it.
And that's fine, no issue with people charging whatever they want.
But, posters are adamant that a house cannot be built for the same price, when clearly they can!

domrush

bubblypop wrote: »

The only explanation is that they can charge more because they feel like it.
And that's fine, no issue with people charging whatever they want.
But, posters are adamant that a house cannot be built for the same price, when clearly they can!

I gave you 5 reasons in post 31. Sounds like you’re happy in your echo chamber

TheSheriff

bubblypop wrote: »

The only explanation is that they can charge more because they feel like it.
And that's fine, no issue with people charging whatever they want.
But, posters are adamant that a house cannot be built for the same price, when clearly they can!

You've literally been told the opposite several times, its not only because they can charge more.

This is a strange cross to carry, you are wrong, let it go.

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The Meath builder is unlikely to get the job in Cavan. A Cavan builder will undercut him.on price as the job is local. The Meath builder if looking for work not local to him will price Jobs in Dublin as he can recover his extra costs associated with time and labour in that market

Meath borders cavan.

Graham

Mod Note

thread split from Irish Property Market Chat

TheSheriff

TheSheriff wrote: »

You've literally been told the opposite several times, its not only because they can charge more.

This is a strange cross to carry, you are wrong, let it go.

I am not wrong, I asked a question and as yet, no-one can actually answer it, other then builders can charge whatever They want.
Which is fair enough, but doesn't actually mean costs are more.

listermint

What sort of nonsense thread is this.


The OP knows full well salaries are not the same in Dublin versus Leitrim or Waterford or Limerick.

They know this full well they were even given stats already which they chose to ignore.

This waffle about charging what they like because they can is just that. A builder in Dublin has higher input costs the end.


The end.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

What sort of nonsense thread is this.


The OP knows full well salaries are not the same in Dublin versus Leitrim or Waterford or Limerick.

They know this full well they were even given stats already which they chose to ignore.

This waffle about charging what they like because they can is just that. A builder in Dublin has higher input costs the end.


The end.

I employ a builder in Meath to do a job in Dublin
I employ the same builder to do the same job in Cavan
Does he charge me the same for both jobs?

Graham

bubblypop wrote: »

I employ a builder in Meath to do a job in Dublin
I employ the same builder to do the same job in Cavan
Does he charge me the same for both jobs?

No, the builder will take the Dublin job.

The Cavan job will probably go to a local builder that prefers to work locally.

TheSheriff

bubblypop wrote: »

I employ a builder in Meath to do a job in Dublin
I employ the same builder to do the same job in Cavan
Does he charge me the same for both jobs?

:rolleyes:

This has been answered already, several times now.

Bass Reeves

bubblypop wrote: »

Meath borders cavan.

And it will depend on what part of Meath the builder is from and what part of Cavan the builder is from. They will both price work that is adjacent to them. However the Cavan builder will have access to labour especially if he is from the Northern half of Cavan that us less influenced by Dublin building labour costs than the Meath builder. 10-20 miles nearer to Dublin makes a difference not to mind 40-50.


No small or mid sized builder has electricians or plumbers directly on the books. He subcontracts them in. The builder from North Cavan will have cheaper lads he know local compared to the builder from Meath.

If you were a self employed trades person would you charge exactly the same for work that is ten minutes from you as work that will take 90 minutes travelling each way morning and evening.

I know I wouldn't have especially if there was demand for my services. I make hay while the sun was shining