Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR) [Old archived version]

questionmark?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948515#Comment_122948515

Very valid points.

Glounthaune is oversubscribed with even some parking on the grass outside someone's property. With space so tight there I'm not sure where the parking could be expanded.

Little Island could certainly be expanded parking wise. Lots of space in the overflow carpark there which could be better utilised and would be a cheaper option than the multi story.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948742#Comment_122948742

Exactly, start with extra surface parking at Gounthaune, the existing car park could be doubled at very little cost.

The Little Island one is a bit more challenging because I think the overflow car park is a public park. The council and IÉ could come to an agreement. But even a realignment of the current car park would be straightforward: they have a 2-way entrance road, a one-way car park road beside it and another one-way car park road at the other side. Just use the available space more efficiently, have an entrance route and an exit loop route - clockwise - and you'll get another 40 or more spaces in at minimal cost.

A multi-story would be expensive but would give a long-term solution with direct integration between Eastgate and the train station itself. You could have people get the lift/stairs up to the pedestrian bridge and cross directly to Eastgate. That multi-story car park would be more valuable than the new North Esk station because it could incorporate the other complimentary facilities like lockers/bike rental/shops/etc. You could even dream big and integrate the bus stop into it at the Northern side, thus giving an integrated loop stop a Little Island shuttle bus.

And North Esk could go back to being a freight distribution depot, or someone could try and develop that land. Better again, use it as the IÉ Cork maintenance/stabling location, and free up Horgans Quay/Kent for more development. They currently seem to have ~350m of sheds at Kent, it looks to me as though they can fit at North Esk.

cantalach

One pro for North Esk station is that it is much closer to the burgeoning population in Ballinglanna…

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951373#Comment_122951373

It's just slightly too far still though. I go through there very regularly. When Ballinglanna gets a through bus (which it will have before too long, from what I can see, likely within 5 years) then it'll have a 20-min frequency bus from earlier in the morning than the train until later in the evening than the train, with a stop right in the middle of the houses. I don't see anyone walking all the way to North Esk for the train then.

The newer proposed (O'Flynn) development to the West of Ballinglanna will be oriented towards Glanmire Village too, it would be in exactly the same situation.

DylanQuestion

I read recently someone say that Cork - Dublin will continue to only stop at Charleville, Mallow (for the transfers to Kerry) and Kent, and not Blackpool and Blarney. How will the intercity trains not impact the CART trains and their 10 minute frequency?

spacetweek

Very valid points about Little Island. Also, a new station at Little Island West would slightly increase the journey time into Cork for everyone coming from Cobh and Midleton, for not much benefit.

DylanQuestion

Platform 6 directional signage has been added at the main concourse in Kent Station

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168449#Comment_123168449

I haven't been through the station in a while so couldn't see, is the platform fairly complete? And I wonder what that project team will tackle next.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123169874#Comment_123169874

Per The wanderer, expected to be opening in March!

Plus a photo of some of the progress too

https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2025-Photos/February-2025/i-KgKrxXh/A

MindBent

North Esk (east of N Esk road) looks to be at least three times the size of black ash. It's next to a population of nearly 10,000 people and growing. O'Flynns plan to build another 1000 houses a few minutes walk away. This population will eventually be linked up by a greenway/cycleway making it ideal for sustainable travel.

It's right off the motorway for people travelling from the north and the N25 for people coming from the east, so not a terrible location for a park and ride.

The extra land could be used for apartments and retail (there's no supermarket that side of glanmire, in little island or glounthane 🤞). It's a logical location for a train station, forward thinking. Would love to see it used and developed correctly.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123172974#Comment_123172974

I have addressed the O'Flynn Developments already: to start with lets agree that North Esk will be 2km from those developments, in the best case scenario. It's more likely a cycle than a walk.

The Eastern O'Flynn development (Ballinglanna) will have a 15-minute bus route straight through the middle of it. I cycle through here regularly. It's a steep hill, and there's little chance people will cycle past that 15-minute bus route outside their door to get to the train a few km away.

Then the Western O'Flynn development will have a greenway connecting them directly into Glanmire village where they'll have that same high frequency bus around 400m away. Again without the hill. If they opted to go East out of the estate instead, towards the train station, then they'll first reach the high-frequency (15 minute) bus route previously mentioned around 200m away from them. If they opt to go directly South they end up at Tivoli, where they'd be better served by a Tivoli station like I'm advocating for. If they chose to walk past the bus outside their door for whatever reason, or have a rail destination, or maybe just prefer rail (lots of people do!) then Little Island is around 1km further walk/cycle. That's trivial by bike, particularly on dedicated greenway infrastructure, around 4 mins. Walking is already out of the question, but even if they were determined to get rail from Ballinglanna then they'd STILL be equally facilitated by a Tivoli East station.

North Esk is not really a more beneficial P&R for people coming from the N25 than the current Little Island station is. It's virtually the same effort for them to get to either station. And it's not very attractive for people coming from the N8, because most of those Tivoli-bound people leave the N8 at Watergrasshill and Sarsfield's Court to avoid the DKI. The volume of traffic continuing on the M8 to Tivoli was small before the DKI upgrade, but it's absolutely miniscule now since the upgrade.

Apartments and retail will not be built on North Esk site if it's a P&R site. The NTA would feel strongly about residential and commercial development directly onto the DKI and two intersecting N roads too. The area is zoned as a "special policy area" at the moment. They intend to put a railway fleet depot in there (just like I'm advocating for) and also a bus depot and a big P&R car park and railway sidings. This will then be an "islanded" train station intended to attract people from motorised transport, it will realistically not be designed to attract people on foot or encourage development. And if Glounthaune can't support a supermarket (Fitzpatricks) and Little Island can't (Spar) then North Esk definitely can't without a big buildup of adjacent residential units. As I've said, the O'Flynn developments are oriented towards Glanmire and Riverstown and they've done a pretty good job of that, all things considered. This P&R is absolutely not being developed with them in mind.

So building the P&R 1km from the existing train station to my mind is not optimum use of money, I'd much rather see a P&R at the East of Tivoli (Crosbie car lot). This could connect to the O'Flynn developments directly, connect to Glanmire indirectly, and leave North Esk for industrial rail use (maintenance, containers, whatever). It would collect N8 traffic AND Glanmire traffic and could immediately facilitate development in Tivoli. Building P&R at North Esk ticks some of those boxes but not all of them.

Here's the clincher: a station in this area would actually suit me more than most people. I'm cycling through Ballinglanna a lot and I'm telling you I'd benefit as much from a station in Tivoli East. Now, they might not be able to do a station at Tivoli East or might not want to, but I'm just saying I think it'd be better if they could.

So it's a question of "what do you get more long-term value from". And to me, there's greater long-term value in setting up Tivoli as the P&R first. In the longer-term when the Tivoli area becomes heavily developed, you move the P&R out to North Esk, building the dedicated station there.

Maybe they'll build both Tivoli and North Esk stations simultaneously, and we can see whether what I'm saying comes to pass: that local people will gravitate towards Tivoli and the bus!

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123172974#Comment_123172974

My reply got swallowed up by the board.

Synopsis:

Point 1: O'Flynn Developments aren't the target of this, they're explicitly being built around a high-frequency bus route. Almost nobody will walk past this bus route to get to the train. Cyclists won't be impacted by the slight extra distance to Little Island. (I say this as someone who currently cycles through there).

Point 2: N25 drivers can access Little Island exactly as easily as North Esk. Many M8-N8 drivers are already avoiding the DKI, so it won't attract them.

Point 3: There will be no residential or retail, the zoning and plans for the area would need to change and NTA would have a meltdown that two of their primaries are being developed on. Not going to happen.

Here's the clincher: Those M8-N8 drivers and O'Flynn developments can be facilitated just as easily by a Tivoli station, which could ALSO catch Glanmire commuter traffic. And when Tivoli is more heavily developed the P&R can always move out to North Esk anyway.

My final point was, maybe they'll just build both North Esk and Tivoli at the same time, but I expect to see North Esk first and I think that's short sighted. I think it should be Tivoli as top priority, put the P&R in there short term, move the rail depot out to North Esk as planned, then move the P&R aspect to North Esk when Tivoli is more heavily used

Markcheese

Its a fair walk ,from most of glanmire and balinglanna to north esk , and that gets you the train to Kent , which isn't that wonderfully connected to other parts of the city . yet ,

Obviously it's connected to the far side of little island , and to the village of carrigtohil ,but not the industrial estates ..

MindBent

https://www.echolive.ie/index.php?puid=105

Good news out today.

L1011

Is this thread super broken? Keep getting new post notifications but nothing since the 14th of Feb on the last visible page?

KrisW1001

test

L1011

Definitely something broken as I'm seeing more new posts by different users, but still nothing on the page.

riddlinrussell

Does anyone else have an issue with this thread in particular not displaying new posts at all?

leahyl

Can anybody else not see any posts on this thread beyond the 14th February? It says there are new posts but I can't see them.

rounders

Anyone else getting notifications about new message here but can't read them?

hans aus dtschl

Oh wow the thread is back working again

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123172974#Comment_123172974

OK, I had tried to reply sooner but the thread wouldn't allow. There lots of problems with your post.

First paragraph. O'Flynn developments will have a 15min frequency bus passing through their first development and right beside the newly proposed development. That proposed development is oriented entirely towards Glanmire and not Dunkettle. It has an entrances onto the Glashaboy bridge and directly to the bus route in two places. Everywhere in the developments are approx. 200m from the bus and these design features weren't accidental because that's the limit of public transport ridership distance. If someone were to choose to go past that high frequency bus in front of them and head the 1.5-2km trip to North Esk, they'd most likely be cycling that greenway rather than walking. In which case cycling an extra 1500m on the flat to Little Island would be trivial anyway. But nobody will do that realistically, because the 15-min frequency 214 will effectively pass their door and bring them directly to the train station.

On the same topic, the new station will be a P&R, and its entrance will not be on the old road, it will be through the current North Esk depot. That makes it a much longer trip than you'd want for a walk/cycle station. And it's a big hill. I cycle it a lot myself. Almost nobody will choose to go to the train rather than walk to the bus in front of them. Remember the cycle/train is awkward at best, and with the under-construction greenway to town if they cycle West rather East they get to bring their bike right to their destination. But all of that's actually OK, because the proposed station is not being developed as an urban rail station. It will be oriented towards the car park as a P&R station, as it should be.

So in short, the O'Flynn developments have virtually nothing whatsoever to do with this P&R. It's just not going to suit them.

Next paragraph: nobody from the N25 needs to go to this station. The Little Island station is almost exactly as easy for them, and for many N25 drivers Glounthaune is even easier. So this proposed station is to collect people from the M8 mostly. It will collect some from the N40, but very few. For M8 drivers going to Midleton or Cobh, they will continue driving. For those going towards Tivoli, a Tivoli East P&R would be just as useful. In fact, a Tivoli East P&R would actually collect ridership from Glanmire and the new O'Flynn developments much better than the North Esk location.

On the issue of land used for apartments and retail, that's just not going to happen unfortunately. There's supermarkets in Little Island (2) and Glounthaune (1) already, and as I've said already the O'Flynn development is oriented towards Glanmire where there's currently a fierce retail battle between the three supermarkets. Only two major supermarkets are missing and that's about to become one….with the remaining one having stated that they simply aren't interested. There simply won't be major retail here.

It gets worse though for that concept, the NTA would likely have a meltdown if they thought large residential and retail were going directly onto the Dunkettle Interchange slip roads. The area has been earmarked in the development plans as X-03 special policy area, to host railway depot and bus depot etc. "Green Infrastructure". Everything around it is zoned industrial or flood zone. There's almost no chance that retail and dense housing are going in there. Worse than that is the low density of residential housing and steep relief directly to the North of it.

TLDR: the proposal is a P&R, not an urban rail station. It will only ever be a P&R. My pushback on that is that I believe a Tivoli East station could provide both P&R and urban in the short and medium term while providing additional benefits. And in the long term if/when Tivoli becomes suitably developed and train ridership firmly established, they can retreat the P&R to North Esk, leaving Tivoli East as an urban station (only).

cantalach

(Test post. There appears to be a defect in boards.ie. It doesn’t show be any post in this thread after 14th Feb even though I receive email notifications about new posts.)

Frostybrew

I'm missing about 14 comments in this thread. Does anyone else have this issue?

Grassy Knoll

not from cork so this is perhaps a silly question, but it seems all suburban train services are north and east of the city. Is there ever scope for anything to the west _ ballincollig etc comes to mind? Even by of future proofing and reserving land ?

EnzoScifo

cannot see the new posts on this thread. How frustrating

Grassy Knoll

possibly a silly question- not from Cork so unaware of the lay of the land. All the rail for obvious reasons is north and to the East. However would it ever be feasible to run to the West - Ballincollig and the like (or land be reserved if it were to ever come to pass) ?
I’m sure someone will tell me no, I’m aware the river etc to the south presents a natural barrier, but across the north of the city to the Western side ?

Economics101

Is the latest post in this thread really 14th February?

Frostybrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123247994#Comment_123247994

A LUAS line has been proposed for Ballincollig.

There was a route option for a freight line to Ringaskiddy examined in 2008/2009, as part of the proposed Ringaskiddy port expansion, which would have gone to the west of the city, before turning east and travelling south of the airport. It was ruled out due to various issues.

The 1978 LUTS plan looked at reopening a commuter rail line from Kent to Carrigaline, but did not recommend proceeding.

The 1991 LUTS review recommended constructing a line from Kent to Patricks Bridge with a terminus station at Patricks bridge to make the city centre more accessible for rail commuters.

The commuter network on the current lines (north and east) has been proposed several times since 1978. The extension to Midleton was opened in 2009.

hans aus dtschl

Thread broken again…shame…

Anyway good/bad news to report: Little Island and Glounthaune parking now both totally oversubscribed during the working week. Cars overflowing everywhere around the two stations. You love to see it.

IÉ need to increase the available space ASAP and build on this success.