Buying to let an apartment in Dublin Citywest - Carrigmore Crescent

John1648

Dear Board.ie contributors, here comes a kind request to you to critique such a small investment idea:

I am a cash buyer, looking at buying a property in Dublin for letting purposes. I am looking at the lower end of the budget properties, which seem to me to produce a better yield.

The calculation is like this: 1300 EUR monthly rent, purchase price - 180 000 EUR.

I am currently looking at an apartment in Citywest area (Carrigmore Crescent), 2 mins from LUAS, next to the shopping centre, 1-bedroom, 42 sqm, in pretty good shape, furnished.

Would such rents be realistic, for these apartments? Would it be easy to find tenants in the current market?

Would it too be risky, in the sense that these apartments risk to sit empty in the event of a recession?
I currently reside abroad, so would not pay the PRSI.

My calculations would go like this:

Apartment Rented for 1300 a month.

Rental Income per year 15600.

Expenses:

Mgmt Charges 1050
Letting and property management fees: 1550
Tax advisory costs: 250

Total allowed deductible expenses 2850.
Local property tax: 250
Income: 12750

Income Tax at 20pc (minus the allowance of 1650) is 900; PRSI 0 pc; , USC 0.5 pc is 80

Overall Profit: 15600-1050-250-1550-250-900-80 is 11770.

Does it make sense?

Many thanks!

John

John1648

John1648 wrote: »

Dear Board.ie contributors, here comes a kind request to you to critique such a small investment idea:

I am a cash buyer, looking at buying a property in Dublin for letting purposes. I am looking at the lower end of the budget properties, which seem to me to produce a better yield.

The calculation is like this: 1300 EUR monthly rent, purchase price - 180 000 EUR.

I am currently looking at an apartment in Citywest area (Carrigmore Crescent), 2 mins from LUAS, next to the shopping centre, 1-bedroom, 42 sqm, in pretty good shape, furnished.

Would such rents be realistic, for these apartments? Would it be easy to find tenants in the current market?

Would it too be risky, in the sense that these apartments risk to sit empty in the event of a recession?
I currently reside abroad, so would not pay the PRSI.

My calculations would go like this:

Apartment Rented for 1300 a month.

Rental Income per year 15600.

Expenses:

Mgmt Charges 1050
Letting and property management fees: 1550
Tax advisory costs: 250

Total allowed deductible expenses 2850.
Local property tax: 250
Income: 12750

Income Tax at 20pc (minus the allowance of 1650) is 900; PRSI 0 pc; , USC 0.5 pc is 80

Overall Profit: 15600-1050-250-1550-250-900-80 is 11770.

Does it make sense?

Many thanks!

John

Some tell me to wait a year, as a recession is coming, and prices will go down.

Same was the advice when covid started. Now price went up by 20 000, plus the net lost rent income was approx 12 000.

Can a small saver afford to lose 32 000???

That is the question!

Darc19

Income tax @20% would suggest that you have not much other income?

Most social welfare payments are taken into account for tax purposes.

A one bed is not the greatest investment. I'd look towards Naas and find a two bed which you'll get 1200-1300 and good tenants.

Citywest also has a lot of property in the pipeline, so rents could come under pressure.

John1648

Darc19 wrote: »

Income tax @20% would suggest that you have not much other income?

Most social welfare payments are taken into account for tax purposes.

A one bed is not the greatest investment. I'd look towards Naas and find a two bed which you'll get 1200-1300 and good tenants.

Citywest also has a lot of property in the pipeline, so rents could come under pressure.

For now I have other income but will rely on this rent later on.

I am a very small investor. I have been saving cash for 15 years for retirement.

Now that inflation is coming, I am looking at purchasing a small apartment, to shield myself from loss of USD and EUR purchasing power, inflation, further prices increases, and make a small profit.

Does it make sense to buy in Citywest? Does 1400 eur rent for 1 bedroom seem credible?

I wish I had more money or bought earlier.

Some tell me to wait a year, as a recession is coming, and prices will go down.

Same was the advice when covid started. Now price went up by 20 000, plus the net lost rent income was approx 12 000.

Can a small saver afford to lose 32 000???

That is the question!

Experience_day

Are you trying to convince us or yourself?

Pawwed Rig

Would you consider getting a retirement fund to purchase the property on your behalf and then you can draw an income at the right time.
Much better tax outcomes

Geuze

John1648 wrote: »

Some tell me to wait a year, as a recession is coming, and prices will go down.

There was a sharp COVID recession in 2020.

The recovery is underway now.

You expect another recession, so soon after the 2020 recession?

The US economy is recovering, output, wages and inflation are all rising.

Allinall

John1648 wrote: »

Dear Board.ie contributors, here comes a kind request to you to critique such a small investment idea:

I am a cash buyer, looking at buying a property in Dublin for letting purposes. I am looking at the lower end of the budget properties, which seem to me to produce a better yield.

The calculation is like this: 1300 EUR monthly rent, purchase price - 180 000 EUR.

I am currently looking at an apartment in Citywest area (Carrigmore Crescent), 2 mins from LUAS, next to the shopping centre, 1-bedroom, 42 sqm, in pretty good shape, furnished.

Would such rents be realistic, for these apartments? Would it be easy to find tenants in the current market?

Would it too be risky, in the sense that these apartments risk to sit empty in the event of a recession?
I currently reside abroad, so would not pay the PRSI.

My calculations would go like this:

Apartment Rented for 1300 a month.

Rental Income per year 15600.

Expenses:

Mgmt Charges 1050
Letting and property management fees: 1550
Tax advisory costs: 250

Total allowed deductible expenses 2850.
Local property tax: 250
Income: 12750

Income Tax at 20pc (minus the allowance of 1650) is 900; PRSI 0 pc; , USC 0.5 pc is 80

Overall Profit: 15600-1050-250-1550-250-900-80 is 11770.

Does it make sense?

Many thanks!

John

If you live abroad, you won't receive the tax credit of €1,650.

Also, your calculation of the 20% on €12,750 is €2,550.

You need to allow for vacant periods, so maybe calculate on the basis if 11 months occupancy in a year.

And you have no allowance for repairs- decoration, call-outs for plumbing issues, electrical issues, broken equipment etc.

Caranica

John1648 wrote: »

Does it make sense to buy in Citywest? Does 1400 eur rent for 1 bedroom seem credible?

That rent does absolutely not make sense and won't be sustainable long term. It could drop to closer to half that over time.

Baby01032012

None of above makes sense. Would you not be better off buying a 2 bed in say nearby clondalkin for 180k..rent of €1,300 would be more sustainable there. Im not sure about your tax calc. You would want to be earning 0 for those figures to work. If you have a job your rental income will be taxed on top of that possible at the higher 40% rate plus USC plus prsi. Management & letting fees seem low have you included VAT @23% on top of that, should be about 10% letting & mngt fee plus VAT. You've made no allowance for repairs etc. needed, new applicances etc. You've made no allowance for void periods where apartment empty between rentals or tenants not paying and overholding.

Allinall

OP isn’t living in Ireland.

JimmyVik

What will you do if the tenant decides not to pay the rent.
I know a few landlords who havent been paid rent in over 2 years.
And the worst part. they get fined if they dont maintain the place for the person who isnt paying the rent.

John1648

Allinall wrote: »

If you live abroad, you won't receive the tax credit of €1,650.

Also, your calculation of the 20% on €12,750 is €2,550.

You need to allow for vacant periods, so maybe calculate on the basis if 11 months occupancy in a year.

And you have no allowance for repairs- decoration, call-outs for plumbing issues, electrical issues, broken equipment etc.

In fact these are deductible for tax purposes. See https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/rental-income/irish-rental-income/what-expenses-are-allowed.aspx

Mgmt Charges 1050
Letting and property management fees: 1550
Tax advisory costs: 250

Total allowed deductible expenses 2850.

So the 20% tax is calculated based on 15600 EUR minus the allowed expenses, and minus the tax credit of 1650 EUR.

Also, the non resident landlords are entitled to tax credit of 1650 EUR, see here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-45/45-01-04.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwinzpGZkdHwAhXbhv0HHURqB48QFjABegQIBhAG&usg=AOvVaw2E63HCDmETeldqg4UHpQr9&cshid=1621268946498

John1648

Experience_day wrote: »

Are you trying to convince us or yourself?

Well, I am looking for criticism of the idea, seeing if I had it wrong on calculations, and assumptions of getting 1400 eur for 1 bedroom apartment

John1648

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Would you consider getting a retirement fund to purchase the property on your behalf and then you can draw an income at the right time.
Much better tax outcomes

Did not think of such an option actually. How would this work? Would they pass on the rent on monthly basis? Prior to my retirement?

John1648

Geuze wrote: »

There was a sharp COVID recession in 2020.

The recovery is underway now.

You expect another recession, so soon after the 2020 recession?

The US economy is recovering, output, wages and inflation are all rising.

Well, some analysis say that FED only delayed the problems, by issuing even more debt, and pumping liquidity, increasing the M1 monetary mass by 4 times in one year, potentially leading to either - 1. Hyperinflation or. 2 if they increase the funds rates to curtail the inflation - this will crash the markets. If 1 happens, prices for real estate will continue growing at very high rates. If 2 happens, a stock market crash will happen like in 2008, and a new recession, with real estate to tumbles. Odds are high 1 will happen

John1648

Allinall wrote: »

If you live abroad, you won't receive the tax credit of €1,650.

Also, your calculation of the 20% on €12,750 is €2,550.

You need to allow for vacant periods, so maybe calculate on the basis if 11 months occupancy in a year.

And you have no allowance for repairs- decoration, call-outs for plumbing issues, electrical issues, broken equipment etc.

Actually repairs are allowed for tax purposes, see here https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/rental-income/irish-rental-income/what-expenses-are-allowed.aspx

John1648

Allinall wrote: »

OP isn’t living in Ireland.

That is correct

John1648

Caranica wrote: »

That rent does absolutely not make sense and won't be sustainable long term. It could drop to closer to half that over time.

So your analysis is that in Dublin, rents will go down 50% over time?

I.e. not increase with the inflation, but on the opposite, will go down?

Would be interesting to hear other views on this.

John1648

Baby01032012 wrote: »

None of above makes sense. Would you not be better off buying a 2 bed in say nearby clondalkin for 180k..rent of €1,300 would be more sustainable there. Im not sure about your tax calc. You would want to be earning 0 for those figures to work. If you have a job your rental income will be taxed on top of that possible at the higher 40% rate plus USC plus prsi. Management & letting fees seem low have you included VAT @23% on top of that, should be about 10% letting & mngt fee plus VAT. You've made no allowance for repairs etc. needed, new applicances etc. You've made no allowance for void periods where apartment empty between rentals or tenants not paying and overholding.

These figures are all real quotes provided to me by service providers. Incl the Management & letting fees, the management costs for the estate too, which btw are not VAT liable.

Why would clondalkin be better?

I have checked the other adds, and all speak of 1300-1500 EUR for 1 bedroom in the region I refer too. Actually I have not found rents lower than 1300 for 1 bedroom aprts in Dublin, unless we speak of studios or granny houses ...

Sad story for tenants, I agree ...

Was a tenant myself for many years...

JimmyVik

John1648 wrote: »

So your analysis is that in Dublin, rents will go down 50% over time?

I.e. not increase with the inflation, but on the opposite, will go down?

Would be interesting to hear other views on this.

If you are investing and depending on what all of us strangers on the internet are saying to you, I think you need to think about your strategy.
Do your own research. Internet opinions are just that .. opinions.

You need to do hard research of your own. Its a lot of money to put on the line.

John1648

JimmyVik wrote: »

What will you do if the tenant decides not to pay the rent.
I know a few landlords who havent been paid rent in over 2 years.
And the worst part. they get fined if they dont maintain the place for the person who isnt paying the rent.

That is indeed an issue !

Thanks for pointing out to this!

I am afraid this can happen to anyone ... so it is important to chose a diligent, solvent, disciplined tenant, with good morale, and excellent references. I hear queues form of prospective tenants, so it would be possible to choose a good one, if not the best

JimmyVik

John1648 wrote: »

That is indeed an issue !

Thanks for pointing out to this!

I am afraid this can happen to anyone ... so it is important to chose a diligent, solvent, disciplined tenant, with good morale, and excellent references. I hear queues form of prospective tenants, so it would be possible to choose a good one, if not the best

You make it sound so easy

John1648

JimmyVik wrote: »

If you are investing and depending on what all of us strangers on the internet are saying to you, I think you need to think about your strategy.
Do your own research. Internet opinions are just that .. opinions.

You need to do hard research of your own. Its a lot of money to put on the line.

Thank you for this perspective! I am taking it seriously, have researched a lot of other options, looked at 10 different properties, have a solicitor, got tax advice already confirming the above figures.

I am only checking here whether indeed Dublin is such a market where 1 bedroom apt goes for 1400 eur. Nowhere else have I seen this, for apartments costing 160- 190 000 EUR. Yields tend to be very good in Dublin

John1648

P.s.

I have actually first looked at the matter 5 years ago, when I could have bought the same apartments for 80 000. Now they are 180 000.

Back then I was laughed at, being told that NEVER will the prices recover, nor the rents go up again. So that is then a total loss of 160 000 EUR, i.e. 100 000 price difference and 60 000 in lost rent.

Can a small investor allow to lose 160 000 ??!

Lots of regrets in fact ...

But what if prices indeed tumble in one year again like in 2013?

JimmyVik

John1648 wrote: »

Thank you for this perspective! I am taking it seriously, have researched a lot of other options, looked at 10 different properties, have a solicitor, got tax advice already confirming the above figures.

I am only checking here whether indeed Dublin is such a market where 1 bedroom apt goes for 1400 eur. Nowhere else have I seen this, for apartments costing 160- 190 000 EUR. Yields tend to be very good in Dublin

I researched it for 2 years and I live in Dublin. But I just couldnt make the risk/reward work for me.
I have lots of friends who were invested in property. The majority advised against it and are indeed all out of it now.
The risk to a single investor is significant.

Caranica

John1648 wrote: »

So your analysis is that in Dublin, rents will go down 50% over time?

I.e. not increase with the inflation, but on the opposite, will go down?

Would be interesting to hear other views on this.

It's not sustainable. With major pressure on this government to look after tenants and the likelihood that SF will be in government soon, landlords will be crucified.

John1648

Caranica wrote: »

It's not sustainable. With major pressure on this government to look after tenants and the likelihood that SF will be in government soon, landlords will be crucified.

SF in Government soon?

Thanks for the heads up, valid point perhaps ...

If so, prices for apartments will also drop dramatically...
However on other pages here, where landlords gather, the expectations are very different, compated with tenants perspective.

Whom to believe, that is the question ?!

Many tell me to wait a year, as a recession is coming, and prices will go down.

Same was the advice when covid started. Now price went up by 20 000, plus the net lost rent income was approx 12 000.

Can a small saver afford to lose 32 000???

That is the question!

circular flexing

You are taking the best case scenario. You have not accounted for

- repairs
- vacant periods
- over holdings
- non-payment of rent

and other things I have not considered. Also don't forget when you sell the apartment, the CGT will be 33% on any gain.

I was an overseas landlord and I would not recommend it to anyone, it's too stressful and the downside is huge. This is particularly true if you are investing your retirement funds.

circular flexing

John1648 wrote: »

Also, the non resident landlords are entitled to tax credit of 1650 EUR, see here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-45/45-01-04.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwinzpGZkdHwAhXbhv0HHURqB48QFjABegQIBhAG&usg=AOvVaw2E63HCDmETeldqg4UHpQr9&cshid=1621268946498

You won't get the full 1650, you'll only get a proportion of it.

Pawwed Rig

John1648 wrote: »

Did not think of such an option actually. How would this work? Would they pass on the rent on monthly basis? Prior to my retirement?

The rent would build up within the fund

DubCount

As someone who doesn't even live in Ireland, why pick Dublin as the spot to buy a rental property?

Ireland has some very pro-tenant and anti-landlord rules and regulations and a political agenda to make this even worse. Tenants can stay in a property without paying rent for over a year and then can do thousands of Euro in damage while the landlord picks up the bill.

Why not look at UK, USA, France, Italy, Germany...

John1648

DubCount wrote: »

As someone who doesn't even live in Ireland, why pick Dublin as the spot to buy a rental property?

Ireland has some very pro-tenant and anti-landlord rules and regulations and a political agenda to make this even worse. Tenants can stay in a property without paying rent for over a year and then can do thousands of Euro in damage while the landlord picks up the bill.

Why not look at UK, USA, France, Italy, Germany...

Well, in simple terms - France: high taxes, very low yields of 3 % gross, VERY tenant protection laws; italy - low yields, high taxes, no growth in propery prices, Germany - low yields, complex regulations, rent controls, UK - yields lower than Ireland, brexit uncertainty re property prices/appreciation. US- far away, costly to manage from afar ...

John1648

circular flexing wrote: »

You are taking the best case scenario. You have not accounted for

- repairs
- vacant periods
- over holdings
- non-payment of rent

and other things I have not considered. Also don't forget when you sell the apartment, the CGT will be 33% on any gain.

I was an overseas landlord and I would not recommend it to anyone, it's too stressful and the downside is huge. This is particularly true if you are investing your retirement funds.

Agree with these points. But elswhere you have the same issues, but for a net yield of 2 % such as France or 3% in Netherlands.

On the 33% CGT - at least there is a gain be taxed, and you get 66% of it. Take e.g. Italy with no growth, or Spain with very moderate growth etc. I would rather pay such a tax, but have a property which is appreciating over time ...

DubCount

John1648 wrote: »

Well, in simple terms - France: high taxes, very low yields of 3 % gross, VERY tenant protection laws; italy - low yields, high taxes, no growth in propery prices, Germany - low yields, complex regulations, rent controls, UK - yields lower than Ireland, brexit uncertainty re property prices/appreciation. US- far away, costly to manage from afar ...

Maybe the lower yields are reflective of lower risk?

Anyway, it seems you have already decided so good luck with your investment.

James 007

DubCount wrote: »

As someone who doesn't even live in Ireland, why pick Dublin as the spot to buy a rental property?

Ireland has some very pro-tenant and anti-landlord rules and regulations and a political agenda to make this even worse. Tenants can stay in a property without paying rent for over a year and then can do thousands of Euro in damage while the landlord picks up the bill.

Why not look at UK, USA, France, Italy, Germany...

I would have to agree with this poster, probably 18 months before you could get a sitting tenant out. I think you would be mad investing unless you knew of a flow of tenants coming from your own country & you offered rent at a reduced rate for them to maintain it too, even that would have its own risks. Too many tenants here seem to be taking advantage of lack of protection laws for the landlord, too much of a headache really.

John1648

James 007 wrote: »

I would have to agree with this poster, probably 18 months before you could get a sitting tenant out. I think you would be mad investing unless you knew of a flow of tenants coming from your own country & you offered rent at a reduced rate for them to maintain it too, even that would have its own risks. Too many tenants here seem to be taking advantage of lack of protection laws for the landlord, too much of a headache really.

Sad to hear that ... not easy being a landlord in Ireland, it seems ...

John1648

DubCount wrote: »

Maybe the lower yields are reflective of lower risk?

Well, e.g. Italy has a very complex, whimful, unpredictable tax system, plus very low yields...

Ireland has a transparent and efficient governance and property protection system, compared with 95% of Europe

Pawwed Rig

John1648 wrote: »

Well, e.g. Italy has a very complex, whimful, unpredictable tax system, plus very low yields...

Ireland has a transparent and efficient governance and property protection system, compared with 95% of Europe

Italy's task system is nuts. Avoid at all costs

Buddy Bubs

Property investment is all well and good and without mortgage expenses this looks good at the moment, but why anyone would consider throwing what I'm guessing is a sizeable chuck of your overall money at a single asset is madness. What's the yield there if everything goes right? Just over 6%?
Not attractive enough to me to justify not diversifying into other, more liquid investments.

M_Murphy57

All the major parties falling over themselves to "solve" the housing crisis means you couldnt pay me (lol) to become a small time landlord in ireland.

We already have rent caps, long legal processes to get tenants out even when they stop paying and it will only get worse (for landlords). I expect eventually we will be looking at landlords being forced to give lifetime tenancies with rent control. Fine if you are a giant fund with hundreds of tenants, terrible if you are a small timer.

Throw in the fact you are abroad and looking to buy in an area known for anti social behaviour? This has bad idea written all over it.

I have a decent 3 bed duplex key on this estate, which is actively managed by Petra, a good property management company. Lucky to have really great tenants past 15 years who respect the place as if they own it. As they are such reliable tenants, and I was a cash buyer, I can afford to charge a rent below market price, as they are actively maintaining my investment. Even do paintwork themselves. It is in the LUAS, has the shopping centre, access to hospital, schools, mountains nearby etc. An investment I don't regret. Carrigmore is solidly built.

SteM

John1648 wrote: »

So your analysis is that in Dublin, rents will go down 50% over time?

I.e. not increase with the inflation, but on the opposite, will go down?

Would be interesting to hear other views on this.

Not Dublin rents, but €1300 for a 1 bed in Citywest is certainly not sustainable imo.

Pawwed Rig

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

All the major parties falling over themselves to "solve" the housing crisis means you couldnt pay me (lol) to become a small time landlord in ireland.

We already have rent caps, long legal processes to get tenants out even when they stop paying and it will only get worse (for landlords). I expect eventually we will be looking at landlords being forced to give lifetime tenancies with rent control. Fine if you are a giant fund with hundreds of tenants, terrible if you are a small timer.

Throw in the fact you are abroad and looking to buy in an area known for anti social behaviour? This has bad idea written all over it.

The rights of people to remain in a house despite not making any payments towards it is one of the reasons that Ulster and KBC have abandoned the Irish market. The property market here has been a basket case since the late 90s.

AndrewJRenko

John1648 wrote: »

Thank you for this perspective! I am taking it seriously, have researched a lot of other options, looked at 10 different properties, have a solicitor, got tax advice already confirming the above figures.

I am only checking here whether indeed Dublin is such a market where 1 bedroom apt goes for 1400 eur. Nowhere else have I seen this, for apartments costing 160- 190 000 EUR. Yields tend to be very good in Dublin

Did you research any investment options other than residential property? Do you really want to put what appears to be your entire savings into one asset class in one market?

The key to reducing investment risk is diversification - across regions and markets. You are planning on a very narrow focus to your investment. That is a high risk approach.

John1648

An important set of remarks to make:

I have looked at a few other markets too, and Ireland stand out positively pricisely because of:

- average price versus salaries & rents, and vacancy rates: so far Irish prices for real estate have not recovered to pre-2012 levels. Everywhere else they grew abofe and beyond. Apart from Madrid, Rome, Cyprus, Romania. But these are low-yield, stagnant economies, with low salaries. Real estate prices versus salaries are lowest in Ireland, out of the 10 most developed EU countries.

- Rents versus purchase prices, again, expressed in rental yields in Dublin are highest of all EU, the rest hovering at 2 - 4 %, gross, mostly

- Demographics - Ireland's population will grow faster than any other European country - with 30% by 2050, compare with stagnation or decline in Italy, Spain, France. NL come close, but has a very rental market controlled system

- Economy outlook - is bright, with youngish growing population in Ireland, multinationals, liberal open economy, many multinationals, US' interface to EU etc.

So to me this looks like a sound investment.

Certainly better than:

a) e.g. a 180 000 Paris suburbs aprt, with 4% gross yield, where all taxes lead to negative income right away
b) keeping cash for too long, which risks being eaten by approaching rampant inflation
c) a 200 000 aprt in Netherlands, with rent capped at 725 EUR gross, and multiple taxes
d) 4 smaller apartments in a Central European setting, with a minus 20 % demographic outlook

What would you say to the above considerations?

Caranica

This is Ireland tonight. No way the CityWest rent is sustainable

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1394736250930802689?s=19

John1648

Caranica wrote: »

This is Ireland tonight. No way the CityWest rent is sustainable

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1394736250930802689?s=19

Would this then cancel all the points of Ireland's attractiveness I have outlined above?

Would be a sad story if this goes ahead, will kill the real estate prices, drive away capital, lower the investors and banks assets valuation etc etc, lower the sustainability of many Dutch and Irish pension funds who pay hard earned pensions and vacations of many elderly on the Indian Ocean beaches ... sad, sad, sad ...

That would be a different Ireland ...

Mad_maxx

John1648 wrote: »

An important set of remarks to make:

I have looked at a few other markets too, and Ireland stand out positively pricisely because of:

- average price versus salaries & rents, and vacancy rates: so far Irish prices for real estate have not recovered to pre-2012 levels. Everywhere else they grew abofe and beyond. Apart from Madrid, Rome, Cyprus, Romania. But these are low-yield, stagnant economies, with low salaries. Real estate prices versus salaries are lowest in Ireland, out of the 10 most developed EU countries.

- Rents versus purchase prices, again, expressed in rental yields in Dublin are highest of all EU, the rest hovering at 2 - 4 %, gross, mostly

- Demographics - Ireland's population will grow faster than any other European country - with 30% by 2050, compare with stagnation or decline in Italy, Spain, France. NL come close, but has a very rental market controlled system

- Economy outlook - is bright, with youngish growing population in Ireland, multinationals, liberal open economy, many multinationals, US' interface to EU etc.

So to me this looks like a sound investment.

Certainly better than:

a) e.g. a 180 000 Paris suburbs aprt, with 4% gross yield, where all taxes lead to negative income right away
b) keeping cash for too long, which risks being eaten by approaching rampant inflation
c) a 200 000 aprt in Netherlands, with rent capped at 725 EUR gross, and multiple taxes
d) 4 smaller apartments in a Central European setting, with a minus 20 % demographic outlook

What would you say to the above considerations?

we look like electing SF as the largest party after the next election , hard left socialist parties rarely treat buy to let investors with kindness

John1648

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

All the major parties falling over themselves to "solve" the housing crisis means you couldnt pay me (lol) to become a small time landlord in ireland.

We already have rent caps, long legal processes to get tenants out even when they stop paying and it will only get worse (for landlords). I expect eventually we will be looking at landlords being forced to give lifetime tenancies with rent control. Fine if you are a giant fund with hundreds of tenants, terrible if you are a small timer.

Throw in the fact you are abroad and looking to buy in an area known for anti social behaviour? This has bad idea written all over it.

Is Citywest an area with lots of anti social behaviour?

John1648

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

All the major parties falling over themselves to "solve" the housing crisis means you couldnt pay me (lol) to become a small time landlord in ireland.

We already have rent caps, long legal processes to get tenants out even when they stop paying and it will only get worse (for landlords). I expect eventually we will be looking at landlords being forced to give lifetime tenancies with rent control.

Would this then cancel all the points of Ireland's attractiveness I have outlined above?

Would be a sad story if this goes ahead, will kill the real estate prices, drive away capital, lower the investors and banks assets valuation etc etc, lower the sustainability of many Dutch and Irish pension funds who pay hard earned pensions and vacations of many elderly on the Indian Ocean beaches ... sad, sad, sad ...

That would be a different Ireland ...