The Foundation series

Need a Username

Asimov is a writer I never got around to reading.

I always thought “plenty of time for later” but now the series is coming to Apple TV soon.

I was about to buy when I discovered that Asimov’s Empire and Robot series are also apart of the Foundation universe.

I know they don’t have to be read together but I was wondering if reading the books from the three series in a certain order makes it more enjoyable or are they barely connected at all (from what I have read it seems more like an after thought to have them exist in the same timeline).

Asimov himself has given a reading order for the lot but I see that many people disagree with it in relation to Foundation itself. Plus it doesn’t include the the standalone novels Foundation novels like End of Eternity and Positronic Man.

What do you folks suggest?

Other than therapy

Tony H

It's been a while since I reread the whole series but you can't go wrong reading them in order that they were published ,

A lot of people find them like marmite or sprouts ,you either love them or hate them ,

I love them and reread them all at least once a decade .

Need a Username

I haven’t had a chance to read the second book yet, but the first is not what I was expecting at all. I can’t explain what I was expecting exactly but it wasn’t that the book was going to be mainly conversations set around a few moments in time.

Gary kk

Time is everything !!!

That's as deep as I go.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859226#Comment_117859226

I’m not abandoning the series or anything like that.

I did enjoy the first book and it was a very easy read. I will start book two this week.

I would be interested to know if the first season of the series from Apple can be watched without spoiling the books.

Manach

I read the series. I was a fair enough read and Mr. Asimov can be commended for his vigour in world building, however the quality of the latter books ( four onward ) reduced as he tried to tie in other elements of his works into that universe.

Gary kk

Honestly I only read the first three as they pretty much ended that story for me.

I was only joking about the time

JayRoc

I've basically read all the science fiction Asimov ever wrote... with the only exception being the Foundation series, for some reason.

The 1st one just didn't do it for me, but it was a good while ago. Worth taking another punt at them?

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862612#Comment_117862612

Then I don’t get it:p

mewso

I would always recommend reading the robot and empire novels before the foundation series. He does link back from foundation to the earlier series and it might make less sense not having read them. It's not essential but then the adventures of Elijah Bailey are enjoyable in my opinion. The upcoming TV show looks to me like it's mainly covering Prelude to Foundation. I could be wrong but you don't hire Jared Harris to play Hari Seldon for one or two episodes. So I would guess at the moment the TV show will only spoil that and possibly Forward the Foundation. I'm also betting that while the TV show might be good it will probably annoy me being a fan of the books but such is life. If I was making anything by Asimov into a TV show I would have started with Caves of Steel myself.

Gary kk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866804#Comment_117866804

I guess your not Hari Seldon so if you are wrong we will let you off

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866804#Comment_117866804

I assumed Sheldon is in a lot more of Prelude and I was expecting the show to start with the prequels but the fact that they have cast an actress in the Salvore Hardin role had me thinking that maybe they are telling both the original three books and the Prequels at the same time.

I do hope Harris is the lead for least a few seasons and isn’t doing a Ned Stark - only being the lead for a season or a few episodes.

I did see something recently that stated the show is not an exact adaptation of the books but I don’t know if that was an official comment or someone’s speculation.

It will be interesting to see if Goyer and company are including elements related to the rest of the Asimov universe - maybe Apple are considering making series and movies based on Robots, etc.

Need a Username

I just started Foundation and Empire.

If it isn’t a spoiler, can someone tell me how much time has elapsed since the end of the first book?

mewso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900525#Comment_117900525

I didn't realise Salvor Hardin featured so that makes more sense. A good move to introduce more female characters. Asimov's stuff is certainly dated on that front.

mewso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901128#Comment_117901128

There is a timeline online but full of spoilers no doubt so at a guess (assuming you mean Foundation for the first book and not the later added prequels) the first part of Foundation and Empire is probably about 100 years later and the second part probably 100 more but I'm open to correction.

Flinty997

I read foundation series in my youth and found it hard going. While I've re-read many books from my youth I've never felt the urge to re-read that.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919498#Comment_117919498

Agreed, it is a sausage festival with only one female character who is less than very minor.

The intent is bring the entire book series to the screen, however, if Salvore Hardin is in the first season then either they are not starting with Prelude or there is multiple time periods unfolding through the episodes.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919520#Comment_117919520

There isn’t that much a jump between the first and second books. I have read on and it about 40 or 50 years.

Need a Username

I just watched the first episode of the Apple series.

It was fantastic.

I’m very surprised that they have started with the first book and not with Prelude as others predicted. The episode shows the entire Seldon & Dornick part of the book but I’m guessing the show will detail the journey to Terminus and the setting up of the Foundation and not skip forward in time like the book (and thus Seldon and Dornick will remain the main characters) with flashforward to Salvor Hardin’s story.

I know nothing about the prequel trilogy but perhaps they don’t intend to use it.

Gary kk

So I guess the books are just a guide for the story.

Need a Username

Yes there are some major differences so far between the books and the show.

I have read the first two books I find it affected my ability to enjoy the second episode both from it being so different and because I know Sheldon can’t fest to Terminus. Maybe it because I only read them recently.

I think I will have adjusted to it when I watch the third episode and I will have read the whole series by the time season two comes - assuming there is one.

Nody

Read all the books and I don't care about the gender swapping done; the genders in the book was never a major point in any form. However the atrocious additions to add "more action" annoys the heck out of me honestly.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031999#Comment_118031999

The gender swapping is absolutely necessary as are a lot of other changes like the use of atomic power.

I was surprised though that the Emperor would have a personal shield - those are a huge advantage that the Foundation have in the books.

You are probably a few episodes ahead of me but the action I have seen so far has been good and there needs to be action - the books are mainly characters having conversations bar a few scene of action. The story would need to be livened up to make a show or movie.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862853#Comment_117862853

I think so. Personally I loved the Foundation series which is how I got started with Asimov. In fact I have read the Foundation series multiple times I like it so much.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866804#Comment_117866804

The Foundation series was how I started with Asimov and really enjoyed him so much so that I have re read the Foundation series multiple times. But for some reason I did not read any other Asimov other then some of his short stories for years. But have read now the first 3 Robot books in the last couple of years and really enjoyed them and that was the spur for me to go out and buy a whole bunch more Asimov this summer including the last 2 Robot books and all the Empire books. So lots of Asimov for me to look forward to sitting currently on my to read shelves.

Gary kk

Ok starting to think because Gaal is a woman they are to change the time line while staying true to story? I mean % changed, romance were there was non. Paths taken that wouldn't have been otherwise.

johnmcmillan

It was nice experience to reading Forward the Foundation. I found it interesting.

mewso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088840#Comment_118088840

They stopped being true to the story about two episodes ago and I don't see a way back. Book spoilers:-

Spoiler Warning

The mysterious object in the tv show was known to be a vault setup by Seldon that he would appear in over the years to update on the latest crisis he had predicted the foundation would face. There was no mystery other than they did not know for sure when he would appear. It was genuinely fun in the books when people gathered to hear his message. There were no psycho-historians on foundation and that was intentional and part of the plan. Later on the fact that the foundation had small electronic (atomic) devices like personal shields was a major plot point in that the Empire in stagnating never needed or created small devices only large atomic ships, shields etc. that required physically large power sources. Foundation gains a significant advantage later by having these smaller devices. In the TV show we see the Emperor has personal shield so thats out the window too. Crises were generally dealt with by avoiding violence and using ingenuity to outwit their enemies. This too has been dropped and was a significant reason I loved the series.

It would have been a brave and I think a successful decision to stick to the generally non-violent angle of the books. Once I feel a shows writers don't trust their audience they tend to lose mine.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089469#Comment_118089469

Changes are necessary for adaptations to TV or movies. For example, science has made leaps forward since Asimov wrote the books, all the characters of significance were male, etc.

If they stuck to the books Hardin would be by by the fourth episode and the Foundation gone by 7.

The only thing I don’t like in the show is Hugo (only seen up the Mathematician’s Ghost so far) - why does every sci-fi series set in space keep dropping in these bad Han Solo clones.

mewso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089772#Comment_118089772

Yep changes are necessary and the gender changes are completely fine. I said as much already. I'm assuming you didn't read my spoiler but all I will say is that tech. and the level of it over the years of the foundation is a key part of the story. Not sure what you mean by science making leaps and bounds. This is fiction and you can of course make it modern technology wise without ruining the fundamental differences between the Empire's tech. and future Foundation tech. Anyway I suspect we might not agree on this. I think so many key aspects of the book have been dropped it should at best be termed a show inspired by Foundation rather than an adaptation. Again I'm comparing to the books. The merits of the show on it's own is a different matter.

Gary kk

Those it depend on the power source more so then the shield. You could also assume the empire would have the best of everything.

Size of the generator. Is it been powered by something in the palace and not on the person

Gary kk

Sorry I am spit balling here I had trouble with the shield to.

Need a Username

SPOILERS BELOW!!! I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ADD SPOILER TAG WHEN ON BOARDS.IE ON THIS DEVICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090353#Comment_118090353

Spoiler Warning

In regards to movies and series, an adaptation from or inspired by a book is pretty much the same thing. And change is a part of adaptation.

you are probably much further along in the show than I so see more of of the changes.

I did take a brief look at (but didn’t read) your spoiler to see what it was about.

it would fairly obvious to readers of the books (even without it being called the Vault) that the object is the Seldon Vault - I reserve judgment on this change until I see it in use but am guessing it will be revealed that Hari simply didn’t want the colony to fawning over it so kept its purpose a secret. However the fact that the characters name it the Vault is a gaping plot hole in the series - how can they possibly know that the object is storing something (unless there is another meaning of vault that I’m not aware of).

what I mean by leaps in science is for example Asimov had atomic power as the core power source of the galaxy - the series can update that to some other kind of science that people are working on or theorising about. More is none about lining in space now than Asimov knew about.

I did notice that they have given future Foundation technology to the Empire - I’m guessing that they’ll show the Foundation’s scientific superiority in future seasons some smother way.

if I had read the books when I was younger I might be a lot more critical of the show now but I don’t have a strong attachment to them and do look in each for it’s own merit.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090566#Comment_118090566

A personal shield would require the power source to be with the individual according to the books. That is why only the Foundtaion had those type of shields.

Need a Username

i’m only three episodes in so no spoilers or such please but I want to know if I’m correct about this - that there has been no mention of Second Foundation in the show?

Gary kk

No mention of the second foundation

mewso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090932#Comment_118090932

Just some hints that they are going to balls that up too :)

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091033#Comment_118091033

Not necessarily.

Seldon in both book and shows keeps secrets from his followers.

it is possible that the shows creators want to keep the Second Foundation as a surprise for people who have not read the book - reveal it at a vital moment in a future season. In-universe it could be that Hari did want them supporting each you are not

the Seldon trial and the exile of his supporters (in other words the establishment of The Foundation was - as I recollect - not known to the public

mewso

I think you need to catch up. That's not what I meant.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091520#Comment_118091520

I don’t understand - that was your reply to me asking if the show had mentioned a Second Foundation.

what else could it be about?

mewso

I wasn't complaining about it not being mentioned. They have hinted that some characters have certain abilities particularly in the latest episode.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094340#Comment_118094340

I’m confused.

The question you quoted is about whether or not Second Foundation has been mentioned and your reply doesn’t mention anything else and is phrased as a direct answer.

Gaal and Salvor do seem to be born with Seldon related magical abilities. I don’t want them to have superpowers but am waiting to see how it plays out.

dePeatrick

I’m watching it now and finding it completely addictive, I haven’t read the books but will definitely take a look at them after the series finishes.

kowloon

TV series was okay. Anyone spot that library from Trantor College Dublin?

Need a Username

I’m on the third book.

I really like the entire story of the series and the world building but honestly I’m just not enjoying reading it.

The characters are paper thin, the all speak the same way, and it is written the same way I would write a story (and that is no compliment.

It is no surprise that the Apple+ show has taken just the basic concept and character/planet names.

I doubt I will read the prequel trilogy next. I have had a longing to re-read the Philip Marlowe series - will probably go there next.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118201921#Comment_118201921

Be prepared to be completely puzzled. TV series are "updated" to reflect current state of affairs like gender equality which make it completely different experience.

Also if they would try to go more "by the books" there would have to be different actors say every two episodes. With exception of maybe 2 lead characters which was not really tried before and could be interesting to watch mainly for the people who read the books. Your typical TV series viewers like familiarity so it was "adapted" to reflect this.

My own subjective take is that even though I liked the TV show, it was something completely different from the original Asimov's story.

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261061#Comment_118261061

I have been meaning to re read the books but think I will watch the TV series first, pretty doubtful about it as it doesn't seem like it would translate that well but on the flip side the books I remember being frustrating at times as well. Basically that an all knowing genius isn't actually that interesting

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503261#Comment_118503261

The Apple series is fantastic and I recommend watching it.

and I recommend watching it as “it’s own thing” regardless of whether you like the books or not. As you say the books wouldn’t translate well and the basic concept and some character names are the only connection - there is an element of the show that I don’t like* but it isn’t the kind of thing that would put me off and maybe they are headed somewhere interesting with it

Spoiler Warning

* that Gaal and Salvore are mutants. It would be more interesting if Gaal, as she says to Hari “studied her ass off” and that Salvore equally earned her place. I also don’t like that they are mother and daughter but Salvore being older and more experienced in life might be fun

I haven’t picked up book three in weeks. As I said I like the story but the writing isn’t great -